EC-135 crashes into ocean near Port Hedland off Western Australias Pilbara coast
The concept of 2 pilots - just like having 2 engines - is if one fails you have a spare. If it is a case of CFIT I'm struggling to understand how you can have a double-pilot failure.
If it is a case of CFIT I'm struggling to understand how you can have a double-pilot failure
AnFI, go boil your head.
If the check pilot is doing the flying, which we understand was the case in this instance, surely the other pilot doesn't switch off? Or maybe the other pilot was alert to everything, except for the important fact they were about to fly into the sea.
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I understand what AnFI is saying. Using a twin because it is perceived to be safer but it crashes anyway, through pilot error. If it doesn't matter how many engines then may as well only have one! So what AnFI says is correct in my opinion...
Over thirty five years of flying single and twins I only had one engine failure in a single and none in a twin. However I have had several 'land immediately or as soon as possible' in singles. The same situations in twins have only been a pain in the backside.
My military life consisted of shooting approaches to the hover over the sea for various reasons.
After a while it becomes second nature but because of our mil mentality monitoring eachothers actions in the descent was almost a religious act. Repeating instructions chanting lists, and sometimes praying for the engines to stay lit!
BUT it has been known occasionally for the driver to miss a cue and the co pilot not to follow up because they thought the HP was all over it with the end result that the anti coll on the underside got wet!
Maybe both pilots were overly relaxed about the others capabilities?
On the perennial twin engine issue.
I lost three engines in my 30 years of flying twins. None flying singles.
The first caused the computers to overtorque in the hover but even then we glanced off the sea transitioning away.
The 2nd in a twin squirrel lost some compressor blades over a city and forced me to land clear of the built up area.
The third was compressor stall every time i applied power forcing me to commit to land whilst over a football stadium.
All of the above would have ended very differently if i only flew singles!
After a while it becomes second nature but because of our mil mentality monitoring eachothers actions in the descent was almost a religious act. Repeating instructions chanting lists, and sometimes praying for the engines to stay lit!
BUT it has been known occasionally for the driver to miss a cue and the co pilot not to follow up because they thought the HP was all over it with the end result that the anti coll on the underside got wet!
Maybe both pilots were overly relaxed about the others capabilities?
On the perennial twin engine issue.
I lost three engines in my 30 years of flying twins. None flying singles.
The first caused the computers to overtorque in the hover but even then we glanced off the sea transitioning away.
The 2nd in a twin squirrel lost some compressor blades over a city and forced me to land clear of the built up area.
The third was compressor stall every time i applied power forcing me to commit to land whilst over a football stadium.
All of the above would have ended very differently if i only flew singles!
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Fareast, quite right, I think the old fashioned unreliability of engines is one of the reasons that oldtimers often think twins sound like a good idea.
Did ersa say that in 50 years of doing this in singles no problem, first year in a twin splash?
Maybe they couldn't see out of the window?
Maybe they had a system failure?
Has the survivor spoken yet?
Did ersa say that in 50 years of doing this in singles no problem, first year in a twin splash?
Maybe they couldn't see out of the window?
Maybe they had a system failure?
Has the survivor spoken yet?
Over thirty five years of flying single and twins I only had one engine failure in a single and none in a twin
I lost three engines in my 30 years of flying twins. None flying singles
Since when did this thread become about twin vs single? This subject has been done to death and had no bearing on this accident. Very dark night (I was flying in the same area the following night), lack of visual cues, final stages of the approach, low speed, high ROD, splash. Nothing new here.
It does have its place. Because in this operation they flew single for 50 years without a prang, and within a year of changing to twin they had a fatal. Perhaps a point being, flying a modern well equipped twin engine helicopter might lead to a degree of less heightened vigilance that is not present when flying a very basic single in a challenging night environment which crystallises all your senses to the nth degree.
It does have its place. Because in this operation they flew single for 50 years without a prang, and within a year of changing to twin they had a fatal. Perhaps a point being, flying a modern well equipped twin engine helicopter might lead to a degree of less heightened vigilance that is not present when flying a very basic single in a challenging night environment which crystallises all your senses to the nth degree.
Deck approach on a pitch black night with one pilot checking the other, and already gone around once - tends to heighten the vigilance and chrystalise the senses no matter what you're flying. There might be a lot of factors involved in this accident but IMHO the number of engines will be found to be irrelevant.
I look forward to reading the reports when they come out.
