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EC-135 crashes into ocean near Port Hedland off Western Australias Pilbara coast

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EC-135 crashes into ocean near Port Hedland off Western Australias Pilbara coast

Old 20th Mar 2018, 03:03
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Perth Radio 6PR reporting this morning (Tues 20th) that the wreckage was recovered yesterday, and that the ATSB will be investigating.

That is all.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 05:28
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It is now posted here:

https://thewest.com.au/news/pilbara/...-ng-b88779917z

Helicopter wreck recovered from ocean off Port Hedland

Why does the press keep referring to the unfortunate pilot as being a "trainee"?

I am damn sure that he was well qualified before being let anywhere near such an operation. Just as I am sure that he was HUET trained as well.

RIP mate.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 06:07
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Originally Posted by Old Farang
Why does the press keep referring to the unfortunate pilot as being a "trainee"?
...because they don't know any better & couldn't be bothered to educate themselves before going to print. Those of us that do know better afford him the respect he deserves, & the respect of your peers is what counts.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 09:22
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Both pilots on board obviously highly experienced.

Night ships - one of the most demanding flying tasks I’ve done.

Can anyone confirm which pilot was carrying out the check ride, and by default which one was being checked?

Rumors, fueled by aforementioned ignorant and lazy press are conflicting.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 10:45
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We'll soon find out as I believe there was one survivor - no?
Until then, my ten cents is that they were transitioning to the hover or doing a dummy approach and failed to arrest the residual descent at the end. That's probably why there is a survivor.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 11:20
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Bristows had a Puma splash in on a night pilot positioning trip some years ago. One of the pilots described it me as a straightforward approach and then, Bang, they were in the water.

For what it's worth, when I did them I would approach from 45 degrees from the stern. This gave me a good angular view of the whole ship, aim at the bow and the stern will be there when you arrive, plus an easy overshoot into clear air up to the last moment before the hover.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 11:48
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
Bristows had a Puma splash in on a night pilot positioning trip some years ago. One of the pilots described it me as a straightforward approach and then, Bang, they were in the water.

For what it's worth, when I did them I would approach from 45 degrees from the stern. This gave me a good angular view of the whole ship, aim at the bow and the stern will be there when you arrive, plus an easy overshoot into clear air up to the last moment before the hover.
So did a Jet Ranger at Karratha if I remember correctly.

Is anyone using NVG on MPT operations?
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 14:03
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Originally Posted by Old Farang

..Why does the press keep referring to the unfortunate pilot as being a "trainee"?
A person undergoing training is a trainee, by definition.

I have 17,000+ hour ATP pilots in the simulator for recurrent training. They are referred to as trainees, or students.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 14:05
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Originally Posted by Thomas coupling
..Until then, my ten cents is that they were transitioning to the hover or doing a dummy approach and failed to arrest the residual descent at the end. That's probably why there is a survivor.
And my five cents is that it was a complete surprise to them when they splashed down.
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 03:34
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Bristows had a Puma splash in on a night pilot positioning trip some years ago
Report here.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24791/199100126.pdf

Talking to a Bristow pilot who was involved in test flying with the ATSB team they came to the conclusion that it was not a result of vortex ring, as the report states, but concluded that they had zeroed out the airspeed and were in fact going backwards, which precipitated the high rate of descent. Bristow pilot involved was surprised when the finding of vortex ring was published, as the test flying was unable to replicate given the prevailing conditions (AUW etc).

Any Puma driver care to comment on the possibility re vortex ring?
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 06:15
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
A person undergoing training is a trainee, by definition.
I have 17,000+ hour ATP pilots in the simulator for recurrent training. They are referred to as trainees, or students.
Yes, even though I am not a Kiwi, just a lowly Aussie, I understand the definition!

But it is not about what happens in any sim, it is about being reported to the general public that the poor sod was a "trainee", which in that context, is easily taken as being an ab initio student pilot that could very well be on his first flight!
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 06:37
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If I had my head of training in the sim, I’d only get to call him a ‘trainee’ once.

A ‘trainee’ is new to type, from then it’s ‘candidate.’
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 08:19
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As a technicality, I would suggest that a "trainee" is a person to whom a new skill or qualification is being imparted by a "trainer". As distinct from a "check flight" where one qualified pilot, is checking the competence of another qualified pilot. Additionally, in Australia, we have a definition of ICUS (In Command, Under Supervision) ... whereby one pilot is qualified to conduct the flight, but for regulatory, contractual or company requirements, must be supervised by a second (usually more experienced) pilot. Does anyone here know what the nature of this flight was?
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 11:30
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Originally Posted by megan
..Bristow pilot involved was surprised when the finding of vortex ring was published, as the test flying was unable to replicate given the prevailing conditions (AUW etc).
I knew one of the Bristow accident pilots, he was my flight instructor. A long time ago now, but I thought he said vortex ring. Both accident pilots were terminated for cause, I think both were eventually re-instated after a long AFAP intervention, with salary arrears paid, but I don't think either ever flew a Bristow helicopter again. Bristow made them a redundancy offer to retire quietly.
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 12:05
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Rest in Peace
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 13:47
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gullibell.
One of them started his own flying school at Jandakot but I've no idea where he is now. The other went back to flying with Bristow, I last saw him in Darwin about 2001. I knew them both well & both said they were in vortex ring. It wasn't a check ride, just 2 captains rostered together but the flying pilot thought he had better follow the Bristow procedure, which was considered bad & not followed by the pilots, but as he had a check pilot with him decided to do their procedure. This procedure was changed!
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 14:31
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The other went back to flying with Bristow
he flew the 225 for brs until the grounding
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 16:22
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Originally Posted by Twist & Shout
Both pilots on board obviously highly experienced.

Night ships - one of the most demanding flying tasks I’ve done.

Can anyone confirm which pilot was carrying out the check ride, and by default which one was being checked?

Rumors, fueled by aforementioned ignorant and lazy press are conflicting.
So no one on here knows, or wants to say which pilot was conducting the check, and which was being checked?
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 21:37
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No check was being carried out, just 2 check captains rostered for the flight. The right hand pilot did the flying. I won't mention names obviously.
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 23:19
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Originally Posted by Nigel Osborn
No check was being carried out, just 2 check captains rostered for the flight. The right hand pilot did the flying. I won't mention names obviously.
I think he's asking about the Port Hedland accident not the Old Bristow one from 1991.
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