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Helicopter down in East River, NYC

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Helicopter down in East River, NYC

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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:08
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Please ID the levers to the left of the collective. ( red,red,yellow,red )

Top black knob is cabin heat ?

TIA

Last edited by TylerMonkey; 12th Mar 2018 at 16:33.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:25
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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What causes cold-water shock?
Cold-water shock is the first stage of the sudden and unexpected immersion in water which temperature is of 15 °C or lower and occurs during the first minute of exposure. Cold-water shock likely causes more deaths than hypothermia. Canada’s substantially cold waters are especially dangerous when you fall into them unexpectedly.

Cold-water shock symptoms?
The reactions of the body may be muscle spasms and hyperventilation. Other symptoms may be an increase of the pulse and blood pressure. Sudden immersion into cold water may cause cardiac arrest, even for a healthy person. The shock of the cold water can also cause an involuntary gasp reflex that can cause victims to swallow water and drown, even for a good swimmer. Cold water can paralyze the muscles instantly.
Water temp in NY waters is 3.9 deg C at the moment.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:29
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TylerMonkesy View Post
Please ID the levers to the left of the collective . ( red,red,yellow,red )

Top black knob is cabin heat ?

TIA
From top of photo to bottom

Black knob: cabin heat
long Red lever: rotor brake
Yellow lever: throttle
Smaller red lever partialy hidden under the collective: Fuel shut off.

Guarded switch on the top left side of collective...I do not know.

As an aside: For photo we used to use a miltary harness/vest for photo: It had 2 leg straps and one chest stap. All had "quick release" fittings as seen on some parachute harnesses. "Click, click, click" and you were free. Took a good briefing and a couple of dry runs to make sure the pax knew how to exit. The harness had a D ring at the back which was attached to the aircraft with a strap resembling a military parachute static line. Sorry can not post photo of one.

Last edited by albatross; 12th Mar 2018 at 16:47.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:40
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
Guarded switch on the top left side of collective...I do not know.
HYD cut-off switch.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:41
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rotorrookie View Post
looks like Apical Tri-bag floats. It's a B2 right? with the throttle and cut-off lever on the floor, it happend in Greenland some 15 years ago during photo flight that a camera strap got wrapped around the cut-off lever and when the photographer pulled his his camera up to take photos he cut off the engine.
Passenger's bag being looked at as possible cause of deadly East River helicopter crash | Fox News

Passenger's bag being looked at as possible cause of deadly East River helicopter crash
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:44
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
From top of photo to bottom
Yellow lever: throttle
Guarded switch on the top left side of collective...I do not know.
Yellow is technically not a throttle but a "Fuel Flow Control Lever", (FFCL).

Guarded switch is the Hydraulic cut off switch.

Based upon everything I have seen and heard:

This was a photo shoot with FlyNyon, which is a tour specifically with doors off and people harnessed in to the floor.

No the passengers do not wear immersion suits.

It appears thee front right float did not inflate fully, causing the right roll.

Yes you will still have some rotation of the blades even after full pitch pull in an autorotational flare.

Flat light, over calm water, looked to me like a good auto, maybe mis-judged the attitude at the end a bit is all.

Last edited by Gordy; 12th Mar 2018 at 16:45. Reason: Spelling----not my best trait.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:46
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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albatross
Smaller red lever partialy hidden under the collective: Fuel shut off.
Does photo show this in run or shut off position?
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:50
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopjock View Post
albatross
Does photo show this in run or shut off position?
It is wire tied in the cut off position. My guess is that if indeed a bag shut off the engine it was the FFCL not the fuel cut off lever that was moved.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:52
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thomas coupling View Post
I accept the pilot was 'busy' during the engine off ...
Yes, maybe with making Mayday calls, and trying to inflate the floats. ANC rules (aviate, navigate, communicate). Possibly, as other have said here, just misjudged the height due to water-related depth illusion.

On a different note: In my eyes these open door joy rides with tethered tourists dangling out of the aircraft don't meet my understanding of the following pre-take off checklist item:

No loose objects in the cockpit
If we have half a door open, we are already worried about a pax' camera or similar flying out and blown into the tail rotor. This (new and now fairly common) modus operandi seems to be turning this exceptional risk into a standard operating condition.

Last edited by Hot and Hi; 12th Mar 2018 at 16:58. Reason: After thought
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:52
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopjock View Post
albatross


Does photo show this in run or shut off position?

That is the run position. Pull up to shut off fuel. ( in all my Astar time I can not recall ever using it )
Throttle or "Fuel FLow Control Lever" (yellow) is in the off position.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:56
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Its wired with thin brass wire in the open pos like it is on the picture,
note! most B2's do not have this screen between the center controls and passenger seat installed
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 16:57
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
It is wire tied in the cut off position. My guess is that if indeed a bag shut off the engine it was the FFCL not the fuel cut off lever that was moved.
The witness wire on the fuel shutoff is not hard to break at all. It would be more likely that the fuel shutoff was pulled, rather than the FFCL which would have to be pulled to the right out of the flight gate, then up.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 17:01
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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The impact looks very survivable, even if one isn't strapped into a seat, so the lack of safety equipment may become a big issue when the lawsuits start flying.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 17:05
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nubian View Post
HYD cut-off switch.
Thanks...never flew a B2
We had the switch recessed in the top end of the collective.
Is the switch Fwd the "On" position? Push back for HYD CUT-OFF? If so I think it is a lttle back asswards. Reverse the switch and guard so you could just push it fwd with your thumb to activate Hyd Cut-Off while keeping your hand on the collective. That is grinding the coffee a little too fine however.

Had a couple of Hyd fails in the 350.. immediate action...shut off that darn horn so you could think! LOL

Also finding it strange folks saying the aircraft has unacceptable outo rotational characteristics ..we normally did full ons in yearly training. Zero speed touch downs were easy.

Last edited by albatross; 12th Mar 2018 at 17:16.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 17:08
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Flat light, over calm water, looked to me like a good auto, maybe mis-judged the attitude at the end a bit is all.
He didn't flare so I agree that he probably misjudged his altitude over the water. I understand from float plane pilots that it's very difficult to accurately judge your height when landing on water, more so when it's dark.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 17:28
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rotornut View Post
He didn't flare so I agree that he probably misjudged his altitude over the water. I understand from float plane pilots that it's very difficult to accurately judge your height when landing on water, more so when it's dark.
As a float plane pilot too I can say you are correct...an engine failure over glassy water far from a shoreline for reference was not a "best case scenario".
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 17:32
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rotornut View Post
He didn't flare so I agree that he probably misjudged his altitude over the water. I understand from float plane pilots that it's very difficult to accurately judge your height when landing on water, more so when it's dark.
It’s very hard to judge on floats , can look like a silver bowl ahead of you with no idea of the shape of the bowl inside. ( even though you know it’s flat ! )

We flew fixed rpm , low rate of descent , until you touched water or ran out of lake.
Watch the horizon or tree line , looking down is useless.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 17:35
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rotornut View Post
He didn't flare
There are two videos showing the impact---one shows what looks to me like he flared, but leveled off. Had he have hit at 60 kts I think the aircraft would have toppled forward....he had maybe 5-10 kts of forward motion on impact.

Scroll down for both videos HERE.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 19:36
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
Does this screen grab look like the front stbd float was not inflated or at least semi-detached?

Still in the process of inflating? Later pictures show it fully inflated.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 19:54
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aterpster View Post
Also, since they fly "canned" routes they should have safe emergency landing sites mapped out along the tour route.
Have you ever been to NYC? For a predetermined safe landing site you will probably need an open spot at least the size of a basketball court that is empty at any given time. Good luck finding just one spot anywhere along the route meeting these requirements.
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