Man fires at helicopter (or .... Welcome to "RotorBlast". Do not enter if .... etc)
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Man, fearing terrorists, fires at helicopter
Williamsburg, Virginia . July 13
Helicopter pilot John S. Sutton landed his helicopter at the home of a businessman to pick him up, and a neighbour opened up with an AR-15 rifle fearing a terrorist attack.
Report states the pilot may face a month in jail, the gunman up to 8 years.
Be interesting to hear more about it..
Helicopter pilot John S. Sutton landed his helicopter at the home of a businessman to pick him up, and a neighbour opened up with an AR-15 rifle fearing a terrorist attack.
Report states the pilot may face a month in jail, the gunman up to 8 years.
Be interesting to hear more about it..
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I guess the pilot was making an illegal pick up of a passenger , claimed it was an emergency landing but witnesses saw someone run out of the trees andboard the helicopter . Didn't think that carried a prison term though
Copter landing surprises neighborhood
Police are investigating incident
By Brian Whitson and Patti Rosenberg
Daily Press
July 18, 2002, 3:02 PM EDT
JAMES CITY -- When John Chwaszczewski bought his house two years ago on Magruder Lane, he wanted a quiet place to relax and vacation during the summer months.
For the most part, that had been the case -- until Saturday morning when the neighborhood quickly became less of the vacation spot and more like something out of "Men In Black."
It was about 8 a.m. when Chwaszczewski, who was doing a little painting in his detached garage, heard a thunderous sound that sounded like it was right on top of him. He looked outside and saw a white helicopter hovering just 20 feet above the garage.
"I didn't know what was going on," said Chwaszczewski, who is a semi-retired construction worker who lives most of the year in Port Monmouth, N.J.
The helicopter then swooped down, just missing the top of his house and car, and landed in a vacant lot across the street, he said.
"It damned near took off the roof of my garage," Chwaszczewski said. "I ran across the street and the first thing I did was get the number of the helicopter."
The second thing Chwaszczewski did was run back inside to get his gun. When he looked out of his house, he saw a man hidden behind a tree, Chwaszczewski said. The man wore a business suit and ran over to the helicopter carrying a large black box, he said.
"My initial reaction was, this had got to be terrorists," he said. "I fired two shots. I tried to knock the windshield out of it. I don't know if I hit anything."
Chwaszczewski would not say what kind of gun he fired. He said the helicopter took off and he thought about firing more rounds but didn't for fear of making it crash in the neighborhood.
"It just happened so quick," he said.
The pilot of the helicopter insists a panel light came on and he landed as a precaution.
Police are investigating the incident to determine whether the helicopter malfunctioned or whether the pilot had planned the landing all along.
The passenger who was picked up lives across the street from where the helicopter landed.
Police say the man may not have been hiding behind the tree, but he may have been waiting for the helicopter.
The pilot said he wasn't aware shots were being fired when he landed.
Brian Whitson can be reached at 221-7220 or by e-mail at [email protected]
Copyright © 2002, Daily Press
Copter landing surprises neighborhood
Police are investigating incident
By Brian Whitson and Patti Rosenberg
Daily Press
July 18, 2002, 3:02 PM EDT
JAMES CITY -- When John Chwaszczewski bought his house two years ago on Magruder Lane, he wanted a quiet place to relax and vacation during the summer months.
For the most part, that had been the case -- until Saturday morning when the neighborhood quickly became less of the vacation spot and more like something out of "Men In Black."
It was about 8 a.m. when Chwaszczewski, who was doing a little painting in his detached garage, heard a thunderous sound that sounded like it was right on top of him. He looked outside and saw a white helicopter hovering just 20 feet above the garage.
"I didn't know what was going on," said Chwaszczewski, who is a semi-retired construction worker who lives most of the year in Port Monmouth, N.J.
The helicopter then swooped down, just missing the top of his house and car, and landed in a vacant lot across the street, he said.
"It damned near took off the roof of my garage," Chwaszczewski said. "I ran across the street and the first thing I did was get the number of the helicopter."
The second thing Chwaszczewski did was run back inside to get his gun. When he looked out of his house, he saw a man hidden behind a tree, Chwaszczewski said. The man wore a business suit and ran over to the helicopter carrying a large black box, he said.
"My initial reaction was, this had got to be terrorists," he said. "I fired two shots. I tried to knock the windshield out of it. I don't know if I hit anything."
Chwaszczewski would not say what kind of gun he fired. He said the helicopter took off and he thought about firing more rounds but didn't for fear of making it crash in the neighborhood.
"It just happened so quick," he said.
The pilot of the helicopter insists a panel light came on and he landed as a precaution.
Police are investigating the incident to determine whether the helicopter malfunctioned or whether the pilot had planned the landing all along.
The passenger who was picked up lives across the street from where the helicopter landed.
Police say the man may not have been hiding behind the tree, but he may have been waiting for the helicopter.
The pilot said he wasn't aware shots were being fired when he landed.
Brian Whitson can be reached at 221-7220 or by e-mail at [email protected]
Copyright © 2002, Daily Press
Now that is effen funny.
Let me get this right - Mr Ch(insert entire alphabet here)zki ran out to "get the number" of a helicopter and then because a man ran toward it and got in he assumed that it was a terrorist? And therefore he should open up on it?
This might be how the news story should have read:
A man was arrested yesterday for being a complete effen idiot.
Another news story on the wires today:
Mr CHyerzcetjdghctyrdhjzski, a retired complete nutter, was recovering today from an anti terrorist attack on his vehicle in a case of "regretful mistaken identity" reported police spokesperson, SGT Velarge Norks.
Apparently, concerned citizens opened fire on Mr Ch-how-ever-you-spell-it-ski believing him to be a terrorist about to conduct a frightening chemical attack on the local Seven Eleven. According to eye witnesses, Mr Ch-alphabet-ski was fired upon by at least 12 people, including the owner of the Seven Eleven, Mr Brassem Up.
Mr Up says that the dark van Mr Ch-alphabet-ski was driving was similar to the one used in the Saudi compound bombing (only that one was white), almost identical to the VW Beetle used by Palestinian suicide bombers three years ago (although much bigger), and most disturbingly, was exactly the same as the boat that blew a hole in the side of the USS battleship last year (although it had a sail). SGT Norks said "with such similarities, it is no wonder that so many people reacted this way".
Mr Ch-alphabet-ski left the local painting supply shop about 11 am carrying a suspicious bag with him, and several tins of what could have been deadly chemicals, but later turned out to be paint. "He dissapeared around the back of the store in an effort to hide his suspicious bag" stated one eye witness. SGT Norks said that it was possible that he was going to the carpark to get his van, but that she could see how people had jumped to the conclusion. Shortly after, Mr Ch's van appeared to be trying to exit the tight carpark, narrowly avoiding another car trying to park, almost taking its front end right off. "I didn't want to hit another car" claimed Mr Ch, "why would I purposley try and hit it?". As he pulled out on to the main road, the lights changed and the van stopped at the traffic signal to allow pedestrians to cross. The pedestrians feared for their lives as they made the dangerous crossing directly in front of, and within several feet of the van.
When the lights turned green, the van accelerated and began to turn into the crowded Seven Eleven carpark. It was then that the concerned citizens decided they could not wait any longer and began to open fire. "Several people had handguns, and there were at least three automatic assualt rifles going, my son opened up with his Uzi, and after carefully recording the plates of the van, I ran back into the store to fetch "Old Molly", my beloved RPG Launcher" Said Mr Up.
"When I returned, the van was driving erratically around the car park trying to get away, and this convinced me that we had a terrorist situation on out hands" he said. "One brave sole had run out of ammo and had begun bayoneting the side of the van, so I realised that I could wait no longer and began launching RPG's. I was just trying to knock out the van's tyres" he said.
Mr Up claims he got the van first go, but other witnesses recall at least three grenade launchings before the van was disabled. The paint shop across the road was destroyed in a fire resulting from an RPG through the front window, and Mr Up's son Jonny was quite badly singed when Mr Up swung the launcher around and fired, catching Jonny in the back blast danger area, the Uzi melting into his hands. SGT Norks said "We are not yet sure where the third round went, but there is a news chopper that was around here at the time and is now reported as missing"
Mr Ch-alphabet-ski was quite forgiving of his fellow citizens when he released the following statement from his hospital bed yesterday: "I can well understand the reaction of my fellow Americans (well maybe not the bastarge who was bayoneting the van) in the face of percieved threat. After all, I do have black hair, a foriegn name, and was driving a van that resembled a terrorist vehicle directly toward a Seven Eleven. In the circumstances, I am sure I would have done the same thing" he said.
Let me get this right - Mr Ch(insert entire alphabet here)zki ran out to "get the number" of a helicopter and then because a man ran toward it and got in he assumed that it was a terrorist? And therefore he should open up on it?
This might be how the news story should have read:
A man was arrested yesterday for being a complete effen idiot.
Another news story on the wires today:
Mr CHyerzcetjdghctyrdhjzski, a retired complete nutter, was recovering today from an anti terrorist attack on his vehicle in a case of "regretful mistaken identity" reported police spokesperson, SGT Velarge Norks.
Apparently, concerned citizens opened fire on Mr Ch-how-ever-you-spell-it-ski believing him to be a terrorist about to conduct a frightening chemical attack on the local Seven Eleven. According to eye witnesses, Mr Ch-alphabet-ski was fired upon by at least 12 people, including the owner of the Seven Eleven, Mr Brassem Up.
Mr Up says that the dark van Mr Ch-alphabet-ski was driving was similar to the one used in the Saudi compound bombing (only that one was white), almost identical to the VW Beetle used by Palestinian suicide bombers three years ago (although much bigger), and most disturbingly, was exactly the same as the boat that blew a hole in the side of the USS battleship last year (although it had a sail). SGT Norks said "with such similarities, it is no wonder that so many people reacted this way".
Mr Ch-alphabet-ski left the local painting supply shop about 11 am carrying a suspicious bag with him, and several tins of what could have been deadly chemicals, but later turned out to be paint. "He dissapeared around the back of the store in an effort to hide his suspicious bag" stated one eye witness. SGT Norks said that it was possible that he was going to the carpark to get his van, but that she could see how people had jumped to the conclusion. Shortly after, Mr Ch's van appeared to be trying to exit the tight carpark, narrowly avoiding another car trying to park, almost taking its front end right off. "I didn't want to hit another car" claimed Mr Ch, "why would I purposley try and hit it?". As he pulled out on to the main road, the lights changed and the van stopped at the traffic signal to allow pedestrians to cross. The pedestrians feared for their lives as they made the dangerous crossing directly in front of, and within several feet of the van.
When the lights turned green, the van accelerated and began to turn into the crowded Seven Eleven carpark. It was then that the concerned citizens decided they could not wait any longer and began to open fire. "Several people had handguns, and there were at least three automatic assualt rifles going, my son opened up with his Uzi, and after carefully recording the plates of the van, I ran back into the store to fetch "Old Molly", my beloved RPG Launcher" Said Mr Up.
"When I returned, the van was driving erratically around the car park trying to get away, and this convinced me that we had a terrorist situation on out hands" he said. "One brave sole had run out of ammo and had begun bayoneting the side of the van, so I realised that I could wait no longer and began launching RPG's. I was just trying to knock out the van's tyres" he said.
Mr Up claims he got the van first go, but other witnesses recall at least three grenade launchings before the van was disabled. The paint shop across the road was destroyed in a fire resulting from an RPG through the front window, and Mr Up's son Jonny was quite badly singed when Mr Up swung the launcher around and fired, catching Jonny in the back blast danger area, the Uzi melting into his hands. SGT Norks said "We are not yet sure where the third round went, but there is a news chopper that was around here at the time and is now reported as missing"
Mr Ch-alphabet-ski was quite forgiving of his fellow citizens when he released the following statement from his hospital bed yesterday: "I can well understand the reaction of my fellow Americans (well maybe not the bastarge who was bayoneting the van) in the face of percieved threat. After all, I do have black hair, a foriegn name, and was driving a van that resembled a terrorist vehicle directly toward a Seven Eleven. In the circumstances, I am sure I would have done the same thing" he said.
Last edited by helmet fire; 21st Jul 2002 at 02:06.
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hehe thats a great read Helmet!
Anyone know what sort of helicopter? Maybe an R22 or Jetranger?
If that account is correct about faking a 'cautionary' landing, hardly a responsible act.
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I like your version better, Helmetfire.
Those of us who have to live next door to the gun loving Americans have usually run into Mr Ch-alphabet-ski before, or some version of him. They just love to shoot at people. Terrorists are just the latest excuse. American A&P schools actually teach civilian mechanics how to patch bullet holes in the sheet metal.
It's funny when you're far away, reading about it in the paper. It's different when you have to deal with these people face to face, always wondering what they're packing.
Those of us who have to live next door to the gun loving Americans have usually run into Mr Ch-alphabet-ski before, or some version of him. They just love to shoot at people. Terrorists are just the latest excuse. American A&P schools actually teach civilian mechanics how to patch bullet holes in the sheet metal.
It's funny when you're far away, reading about it in the paper. It's different when you have to deal with these people face to face, always wondering what they're packing.
Hey Weight and Balance,
The most telling fact about gun ownership and murder is Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than all of my guns. And....ol' Teddy Boy is a leading ban the gun nut!
The Bill of Rights contained within our Constitution which was written to protect the Citizen against the tyranny of government has as the first amendment.....the prohibition against Congress making any law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to assemble peacefully, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievance.
Oddly enough, the second amendment stated that a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Thus, despite your personal feelings on the matter....the American people are entitled to own their guns. There are plenty of laws that administer how those guns can be used and no one can reasonably endorse the misuse of a deadly weapon. But the miss use of a a weapon by a citizen does not begin to be an excuse for the Government to remove the guns from the hands of the other law abiding citizens of the United States. That is in the very fabric of the documents that founded this great experiment in democracy and freedom.
Heck, WB, we kill 15,000 people or more in alcohol related traffic accidents.....I don't hear you crying for the abolition of Canadian blended whiskeys!
The most telling fact about gun ownership and murder is Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than all of my guns. And....ol' Teddy Boy is a leading ban the gun nut!
The Bill of Rights contained within our Constitution which was written to protect the Citizen against the tyranny of government has as the first amendment.....the prohibition against Congress making any law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to assemble peacefully, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievance.
Oddly enough, the second amendment stated that a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Thus, despite your personal feelings on the matter....the American people are entitled to own their guns. There are plenty of laws that administer how those guns can be used and no one can reasonably endorse the misuse of a deadly weapon. But the miss use of a a weapon by a citizen does not begin to be an excuse for the Government to remove the guns from the hands of the other law abiding citizens of the United States. That is in the very fabric of the documents that founded this great experiment in democracy and freedom.
Heck, WB, we kill 15,000 people or more in alcohol related traffic accidents.....I don't hear you crying for the abolition of Canadian blended whiskeys!
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Uh-oh..., touchy subjects here!
Very well put SAS and I agree fully.
Unfortunately, alcohol, in today's society, is fashionable and socially acceptable. Firearms ain't. Let a slobering, stinking drunk run his 3,500 lb. car into a van load of eight high school kids killing four of them, it's "a tragic accident" that the driver "will have to live with the rest of his life". Let that same drunk kill someone with a firearm (accidentally or otherwise) and it's a "senseless murder".
Now, I don't know what kind of neighborhood ol' WaB lives in to be "usually" running into this screaming idiot "or some version of him", however I know for a fact all of my neighbors own firearms (as do I) and none of us have ever shot at anybody (nor would we ever want to).
I've lived next to these fellow gun-owners almost my entire adult life and have, quite frequently, flown home when coming from or going to a contract. I have to admit, it was quite a show the first few times I did that, but never did anyone open up on me with an AR, nor did I wonder if they would when several showed up in my driveway.
(Just for the record, I've got about 25 acres, which is a lot of room, and I don't "swoop down" over the neighbors' houses. As a pilot and a firearm owner, I can't say, based on the facts of the story as presented, that I would condone either action. Sounds to me like neither of these goofs have both oars in the water).
Now, I just can't imagine meeting someone face to face and "always wondering what they're packing". I have been a lot of places in my life and I've met a lot of people. Never once did I ever wonder what or if anybody I met was "packin'" - even when I go over to Tucson or up to Phoenix the thought never enters my head. I know that, tomorrow, I'll probably meet at least five more people for the first time and the one thing I won't do is wonder if they're in possession of a firearm.
What the heck, if I were as worried as you WaB, I'd be finding a different place to live. C'mon down here - it's great! I don't have to lock the doors to my house if I leave for the day and wonder if I'll have anything left when I get back. If I know any of my neighbors are gone, I'll keep an eye on their places for them. Four of my neigbors have a key to my place and I have the keys to three of their's in case something comes up. If my neighbors don't know who's in front of my house and I'm not home, they don't attack with an SKS, they simply come over, find out who it is and why they're there (I've done the exact same thing for them). If the strangers don't belong, they're told to leave. It's worked every time. My barn doesn't even have a lock on it because the neighbor's girls and their friends come over and ride the horses whenever they please and, in exchange, do the feeding when I'm away - I've never had anything stolen.
Oh, and the best part of living here? We "Gun Loving Americans" won't treat you any different just because you have a Mapel Leaf stamped on your forehead.
C Ya
Very well put SAS and I agree fully.
Unfortunately, alcohol, in today's society, is fashionable and socially acceptable. Firearms ain't. Let a slobering, stinking drunk run his 3,500 lb. car into a van load of eight high school kids killing four of them, it's "a tragic accident" that the driver "will have to live with the rest of his life". Let that same drunk kill someone with a firearm (accidentally or otherwise) and it's a "senseless murder".
Now, I don't know what kind of neighborhood ol' WaB lives in to be "usually" running into this screaming idiot "or some version of him", however I know for a fact all of my neighbors own firearms (as do I) and none of us have ever shot at anybody (nor would we ever want to).
I've lived next to these fellow gun-owners almost my entire adult life and have, quite frequently, flown home when coming from or going to a contract. I have to admit, it was quite a show the first few times I did that, but never did anyone open up on me with an AR, nor did I wonder if they would when several showed up in my driveway.
(Just for the record, I've got about 25 acres, which is a lot of room, and I don't "swoop down" over the neighbors' houses. As a pilot and a firearm owner, I can't say, based on the facts of the story as presented, that I would condone either action. Sounds to me like neither of these goofs have both oars in the water).
Now, I just can't imagine meeting someone face to face and "always wondering what they're packing". I have been a lot of places in my life and I've met a lot of people. Never once did I ever wonder what or if anybody I met was "packin'" - even when I go over to Tucson or up to Phoenix the thought never enters my head. I know that, tomorrow, I'll probably meet at least five more people for the first time and the one thing I won't do is wonder if they're in possession of a firearm.
What the heck, if I were as worried as you WaB, I'd be finding a different place to live. C'mon down here - it's great! I don't have to lock the doors to my house if I leave for the day and wonder if I'll have anything left when I get back. If I know any of my neighbors are gone, I'll keep an eye on their places for them. Four of my neigbors have a key to my place and I have the keys to three of their's in case something comes up. If my neighbors don't know who's in front of my house and I'm not home, they don't attack with an SKS, they simply come over, find out who it is and why they're there (I've done the exact same thing for them). If the strangers don't belong, they're told to leave. It's worked every time. My barn doesn't even have a lock on it because the neighbor's girls and their friends come over and ride the horses whenever they please and, in exchange, do the feeding when I'm away - I've never had anything stolen.
Oh, and the best part of living here? We "Gun Loving Americans" won't treat you any different just because you have a Mapel Leaf stamped on your forehead.
C Ya
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Perhaps another gun debate is looming!!!
"3,761 children and teens are killed by gunfire in the XYZ each year, nearly 10 lives every day, one every two and one half hours."
Wonder how many Mums and Dads are as well............
"3,761 children and teens are killed by gunfire in the XYZ each year, nearly 10 lives every day, one every two and one half hours."
Wonder how many Mums and Dads are as well............
Why, why, why do you have to own a gun? Is it to be a macho man and try to live the Wild West fantasy where you get to outdraw a badguy at the 7-11 and become the white-hatted hero? And why is one gun never enough? How many burgulars are you expecting?
Firearms are dangerous despite the facile argument that 'guns don't kill people - people kill people'.
How many altercations between people would end up with a corpse if those people didn't have access to guns - not very many!
Perhaps this obsession with shooting people regardless of the situation is why the American military has such a bad reputation in Afghanistan/Iraq etc where even shining a torch at a low flying aircraft is taken to be an aggressive act worthy of military reprisal and armed action.
I know I'm going to get flamed badly for this one and you will say stupid brits just don't understand but most of the world hoped that Sept 11 would make the whole of America take a good look at itself in the mirror and perhaps give a damn how they are viewed by others.
If you wnat to play with guns then join the Army and go to war - I bet there are not many Vietnam Vets who thinks guns are great.
Firearms are dangerous despite the facile argument that 'guns don't kill people - people kill people'.
How many altercations between people would end up with a corpse if those people didn't have access to guns - not very many!
Perhaps this obsession with shooting people regardless of the situation is why the American military has such a bad reputation in Afghanistan/Iraq etc where even shining a torch at a low flying aircraft is taken to be an aggressive act worthy of military reprisal and armed action.
I know I'm going to get flamed badly for this one and you will say stupid brits just don't understand but most of the world hoped that Sept 11 would make the whole of America take a good look at itself in the mirror and perhaps give a damn how they are viewed by others.
If you wnat to play with guns then join the Army and go to war - I bet there are not many Vietnam Vets who thinks guns are great.
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God Bless America
Only in the good ol' US of A could somethnig like that happen.
Not too mention the press article that all but condones Mr Ch-Alphabet-skis right to shoot at whom ever he wants. Lock the nutter up... now! Before he breeds with the humans.
Well done helmet on a great dit.... heaven forbid someone who goes to a hardware store and buys a box-cutter knife ("obviously a terrorist so I shot him your honour!")
Not too mention the press article that all but condones Mr Ch-Alphabet-skis right to shoot at whom ever he wants. Lock the nutter up... now! Before he breeds with the humans.
Well done helmet on a great dit.... heaven forbid someone who goes to a hardware store and buys a box-cutter knife ("obviously a terrorist so I shot him your honour!")
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If you find yourself in a fair fight, you did not plan it properly.
Crab,
I am in the ticklish spot of fully agreeing with you about guns and gun control, yet sharply offended that you believe we could draw some critical lesson from the 911 attack on us.
The only lesson I believe we "should have learned" from 911 is to attack earlier, more sharply, and less discriminately. We spent a decade tolerating the buffoonish group who first tried to destroy the World Trade center (you remember, the dolt who tried to get his deposit back on the rented bomb truck!)
That was our mistake. We will not make it again.
Regarding gun control, SASless cites a particularly stubborn myth of right wing Americans, and uses it as his sole argument - that the Second Amendment to our Constitution has something to do with him owning guns. That citation has never, ever been held up in a Federal court. The militia mentioned in the Constitution does not extend to drunk National Rifle Association members with AR-15's, never has and never will. All reasonable gun control measures have withstood court challenges. When Americans get sick enough of the carnage (which is coming very soon) they will squash the NRA's political power, enact proper gun control legislation, and be done with it.
I am in the ticklish spot of fully agreeing with you about guns and gun control, yet sharply offended that you believe we could draw some critical lesson from the 911 attack on us.
The only lesson I believe we "should have learned" from 911 is to attack earlier, more sharply, and less discriminately. We spent a decade tolerating the buffoonish group who first tried to destroy the World Trade center (you remember, the dolt who tried to get his deposit back on the rented bomb truck!)
That was our mistake. We will not make it again.
Regarding gun control, SASless cites a particularly stubborn myth of right wing Americans, and uses it as his sole argument - that the Second Amendment to our Constitution has something to do with him owning guns. That citation has never, ever been held up in a Federal court. The militia mentioned in the Constitution does not extend to drunk National Rifle Association members with AR-15's, never has and never will. All reasonable gun control measures have withstood court challenges. When Americans get sick enough of the carnage (which is coming very soon) they will squash the NRA's political power, enact proper gun control legislation, and be done with it.
We do remember the silent majority.....all those who sit home in barracks while the war is being fought. The Canadians sent over the whole navy at least....what was it two ships? Except for the SAS who are involved in the shooting part of the war.....and a token number of Marines walking escorted around Kabul....our British friends pretty much sat this one out too. But that is okay there fellers....we have this attitude of getting involved it seems...we did it in the First World War, again in the Second World World, and it seems we will continue to do so.
I wonder if comes from the fact that our society believes in defending our own home against intruders whereas in the UK, the burglar gets a pass unless you can prove deadly actions against the occupants of the house and then you better not hurt the burglar or you find yourself in nick for "grievous bodily harm"!
I am a Vietnam Vet...did two tours there...both voluntarily...got shot there too and evacced home as a result....yes I own several guns....but do not "love" them. Matter of fact, all but two handguns are in a vault two hundred miles from me for safe keeping and I do not even have the combination.
Come to my house at any time of the day or night and ask me why I keep them....just knock politely and wait to be invited in! I catch you digging through the family silver service or attempting to harm my family and you will abruptly discover the dangers involved for burglars in my neighborhood.
These are percussion signalling devices....they make very loud noises and shortly thereafter the police show up to cart some garbage out of my parlor. .
The mention of Vietnam wasn't meant to have anything to do with this issue beyond try to rub an American's nose in a defeat.
You really do not understand the Vietnam thing if you resort to such comments.
We only have to look at the a large black marble wall with over 58,000 names on it to remind us of the folly of fighting a war in a half-assed manner. But then almost every town and village I visited in the UK has a great pillar of some kind with name upon name lost to some war of occupation or battle to retain a colony and all in vain it appears. Seems the occupied are now the occupiers. I understand what that feels like, all I have to do today is look at Atlanta and I see what 250,000 Confederate soldiers died trying to prevent.
You can make your shrill comments till the cows arrive...but the Founding Fathers who formulated the structure of our government and meant that our people would remain free, wrote into the very heart of our framing documents, the guarantee that we would be able to remain armed. That was to guard against an abusive government as well as burglars. For you fellers in the UK...the government the Founding Fathers were referring to....is your government.....specifically and without question. We overthrew the yoke of an oppressive government like how many other colonies of yours. Reckon there is a message here somewhere?
www.guncite.com is a very good website for presentation of arguments about the gun ownership issue in the USA. Read the information and make up your own mind as to which side of the issue is correct. Lord knows there has been plenty of hyperbole on both sides.
I wonder if comes from the fact that our society believes in defending our own home against intruders whereas in the UK, the burglar gets a pass unless you can prove deadly actions against the occupants of the house and then you better not hurt the burglar or you find yourself in nick for "grievous bodily harm"!
I am a Vietnam Vet...did two tours there...both voluntarily...got shot there too and evacced home as a result....yes I own several guns....but do not "love" them. Matter of fact, all but two handguns are in a vault two hundred miles from me for safe keeping and I do not even have the combination.
Come to my house at any time of the day or night and ask me why I keep them....just knock politely and wait to be invited in! I catch you digging through the family silver service or attempting to harm my family and you will abruptly discover the dangers involved for burglars in my neighborhood.
These are percussion signalling devices....they make very loud noises and shortly thereafter the police show up to cart some garbage out of my parlor. .
The mention of Vietnam wasn't meant to have anything to do with this issue beyond try to rub an American's nose in a defeat.
You really do not understand the Vietnam thing if you resort to such comments.
We only have to look at the a large black marble wall with over 58,000 names on it to remind us of the folly of fighting a war in a half-assed manner. But then almost every town and village I visited in the UK has a great pillar of some kind with name upon name lost to some war of occupation or battle to retain a colony and all in vain it appears. Seems the occupied are now the occupiers. I understand what that feels like, all I have to do today is look at Atlanta and I see what 250,000 Confederate soldiers died trying to prevent.
You can make your shrill comments till the cows arrive...but the Founding Fathers who formulated the structure of our government and meant that our people would remain free, wrote into the very heart of our framing documents, the guarantee that we would be able to remain armed. That was to guard against an abusive government as well as burglars. For you fellers in the UK...the government the Founding Fathers were referring to....is your government.....specifically and without question. We overthrew the yoke of an oppressive government like how many other colonies of yours. Reckon there is a message here somewhere?
www.guncite.com is a very good website for presentation of arguments about the gun ownership issue in the USA. Read the information and make up your own mind as to which side of the issue is correct. Lord knows there has been plenty of hyperbole on both sides.
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Let me simply use SASless's web site to disprove his belief that the Second Amendment protects him from gun control laws:
The web site he provided http://www.guncite.com/ shows on the left column a section called Gun Laws.
A quick mosey down them will show that some states and cities have passed tight gun laws. NY city for instance requires all guns, including rifles, to be registered, and permits to be issued.
Either the US Constitution does not have effect there, or those laws are constitutional.
QED: The Second Amendment does not prohibit reasonable gun control laws.
The web site he provided http://www.guncite.com/ shows on the left column a section called Gun Laws.
A quick mosey down them will show that some states and cities have passed tight gun laws. NY city for instance requires all guns, including rifles, to be registered, and permits to be issued.
Either the US Constitution does not have effect there, or those laws are constitutional.
QED: The Second Amendment does not prohibit reasonable gun control laws.
Nick,
Ease up Dude! Here is a quote of part of my initial post which you kinda skipped over I think.....
"There are plenty of laws that administer how those guns can be used and no one can reasonably endorse the misuse of a deadly weapon. But the miss use of a a weapon by a citizen does not begin to be an excuse for the Government to remove the guns from the hands of the other law abiding citizens of the United States. "
I am not an NRA member....am slightly more right leaned than left leaned....depends upon the issue but I do feel strongly in the preservation of our individual liberties.
Might I remind you the FBI sniper at Ruby Ridge had a "Shoot on sight order for Randy Weaver." From my years in law enforcment both as a local and a federal agent, I never heard of such a thing....but even so, after the FBI sniper shot and killed Weaver's wife while she was holding an infant in her arms....thinking she was Weaver.....the asshole got a bonus and promotion. You might gather, being right winged and conservative....that I have little angst over shooting dangerous armed and threatening felons who are posing a direct threat to someone's life, but Nick....I swear I do not believe the baby could be considered a dangerous weapon while the Mom was standing behind a screen door. Nor do I think the government is ever entitled to issue a "Shoot on sight" order against any citizen. There is a concept of "Due Process" here. Also, a right to be secure in our person and belongings.
Ease up Dude! Here is a quote of part of my initial post which you kinda skipped over I think.....
"There are plenty of laws that administer how those guns can be used and no one can reasonably endorse the misuse of a deadly weapon. But the miss use of a a weapon by a citizen does not begin to be an excuse for the Government to remove the guns from the hands of the other law abiding citizens of the United States. "
I am not an NRA member....am slightly more right leaned than left leaned....depends upon the issue but I do feel strongly in the preservation of our individual liberties.
Might I remind you the FBI sniper at Ruby Ridge had a "Shoot on sight order for Randy Weaver." From my years in law enforcment both as a local and a federal agent, I never heard of such a thing....but even so, after the FBI sniper shot and killed Weaver's wife while she was holding an infant in her arms....thinking she was Weaver.....the asshole got a bonus and promotion. You might gather, being right winged and conservative....that I have little angst over shooting dangerous armed and threatening felons who are posing a direct threat to someone's life, but Nick....I swear I do not believe the baby could be considered a dangerous weapon while the Mom was standing behind a screen door. Nor do I think the government is ever entitled to issue a "Shoot on sight" order against any citizen. There is a concept of "Due Process" here. Also, a right to be secure in our person and belongings.
Avoid imitations
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Having seen for myself, I think that there are places both side of the Atlantic with more than a fair share of half-wits with access to too much alcohol and an overdose of macho in their genetic makeup. Ours generally have to make do with pretending to be football supporters.
The one thing that makes a difference on our side of the pond is that the vast majority of us don't have ready access to guns. They took them away from the law-abiding folk, to leave only the criminal element armed.
Next, take away the police in sufficient numbers and make the remainder reluctant or unable to make an arrest because of the ridiculous amount of paperwork involved and you have many of the factors required for a major breakdown in law and order.
They also seem to have attempted to take away our right and will to defend our own families and property; however a very recent criminal case gives me hope that common sense may one day once again prevail.
The definition of the term "reasonable force" is what we are talking about.
The one thing that makes a difference on our side of the pond is that the vast majority of us don't have ready access to guns. They took them away from the law-abiding folk, to leave only the criminal element armed.
Next, take away the police in sufficient numbers and make the remainder reluctant or unable to make an arrest because of the ridiculous amount of paperwork involved and you have many of the factors required for a major breakdown in law and order.
They also seem to have attempted to take away our right and will to defend our own families and property; however a very recent criminal case gives me hope that common sense may one day once again prevail.
The definition of the term "reasonable force" is what we are talking about.
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DesertDude.....
A small expansion is needed in the interest of accuracy.........
Drunks are now no longer socially acceptable......and Drunk Drivers are now condidered criminals...........[In Oz at least]
And if he/she kills anyone downunder....they have a high probability of Manslaughter or Murder charges..
We have upt the anti from the Road Code to the Criminal Code......
Yes he/she can feel guilty as they live with themselves.......in goal........in the next cell from that crim with the gun.........[imported one that is].
A small expansion is needed in the interest of accuracy.........
Drunks are now no longer socially acceptable......and Drunk Drivers are now condidered criminals...........[In Oz at least]
And if he/she kills anyone downunder....they have a high probability of Manslaughter or Murder charges..
We have upt the anti from the Road Code to the Criminal Code......
Yes he/she can feel guilty as they live with themselves.......in goal........in the next cell from that crim with the gun.........[imported one that is].
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It is so amusing watching the yank fight over guns from afar. Please permit me one or two observations:
1) Not knowing if anyone was "packing" might make some people unbearably paranoid and afraid. On the other hand, I say it'll make for a very polite society!
2) Those who (like Nick Lappos) quite bizarrely believe that guns should be made illegal overlook one very large fact: Guns will never be completely eliminated from any society, no matter what prohibitions are enacted. Take away the guns from the law-abiding citizens and that leaves only the criminals with them. Nice odds, eh what! Question: Do the anti-gun people actually think that guns can be removed from American society simply by passing a law that says so? How peculiar!
3) I believe that there are more than a few States with permissive "concealed carry" laws, no? I do not read about gunfights in the streets. No, in fact isn't Washington D.C. the murder capital over there? Washington D.C....with some of the strictest gun laws on the books? And...how many shooting deaths occur in NYC every year, Nick? Question: What do gun laws accomplish?
Crab asks:
Obviously, somebody doesn't understand the concept of personal protection and responsibility. Perhaps he believes that the police can do it all for him. I just wish that I could protect my family and property in a proper way. One gun would do nicely. It is to my everlasting shame that we brits don't understand the concept of manliness. For instance, just name me one macho British actor. And if you say Hugh Grant I'll slap you silly.
SASless and Desert Dude, you blokes are spot on. I just wish more people in the world felt/thought the way you two do. Good on ya, mates!
1) Not knowing if anyone was "packing" might make some people unbearably paranoid and afraid. On the other hand, I say it'll make for a very polite society!
2) Those who (like Nick Lappos) quite bizarrely believe that guns should be made illegal overlook one very large fact: Guns will never be completely eliminated from any society, no matter what prohibitions are enacted. Take away the guns from the law-abiding citizens and that leaves only the criminals with them. Nice odds, eh what! Question: Do the anti-gun people actually think that guns can be removed from American society simply by passing a law that says so? How peculiar!
3) I believe that there are more than a few States with permissive "concealed carry" laws, no? I do not read about gunfights in the streets. No, in fact isn't Washington D.C. the murder capital over there? Washington D.C....with some of the strictest gun laws on the books? And...how many shooting deaths occur in NYC every year, Nick? Question: What do gun laws accomplish?
Crab asks:
Why, why, why do you have to own a gun? Is it to be a macho man and try to live the Wild West fantasy where you get to outdraw a badguy at the 7-11 and become the white-hatted hero?
Obviously, somebody doesn't understand the concept of personal protection and responsibility. Perhaps he believes that the police can do it all for him. I just wish that I could protect my family and property in a proper way. One gun would do nicely. It is to my everlasting shame that we brits don't understand the concept of manliness. For instance, just name me one macho British actor. And if you say Hugh Grant I'll slap you silly.
SASless and Desert Dude, you blokes are spot on. I just wish more people in the world felt/thought the way you two do. Good on ya, mates!