German Tiger down in Mali
Yeap ... and Bell helicopters just grounded the whole US fleet of Bell 407 after the fatal crash of such a police helicopter in Charlottesville last week-end.
Just checked with the Bell 407 Product Manager and he said totally incorrect.
Originally Posted by 212man
Anger? Where do you see that? It was a statement of fact that I'm aware of at least three failures, two of which provided a very interesting initial 'ride' for their crews until brought under control - with altitude to do so - and one that was fatal (http://www.mot.gov.my/SiteCollection...B%20latest.pdf)
Is this a desperate attempt to make a point?
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Not beyond the realms of possibility that the dive was an instinctive reaction to the onset of something ominous. The driver sticking it towards the ground in an attempt to land on possibly? Whilst the wing would have seen the dive, he probably wouldn't have noticed high vibration or other indications being given to the crew. I just hope that there are significant data gathering devices in the Tiger. I'm forever shucked how rotary seems to get away with a real lack of black boxes.
I hope they didn't suffer. Rest in peace.
I hope they didn't suffer. Rest in peace.
Originally Posted by Mee3
Ugh? Cliff's broken tail dauphin?
Is this a desperate attempt to make a point?
Is this a desperate attempt to make a point?
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" Bell helicopters just grounded the whole US fleet of Bell 407 after the fatal crash of such a police helicopter in Charlottesville last week-end "
My poor Kiwi, it was sarcastic - and you missed the point totally. Let's say it's a different culture....
Originally Posted by KiwiNedNZ
Fake News Just checked with the Bell 407 Product Manager and he said totally incorrect.
Just checked with the Bell 407 Product Manager and he said totally incorrect.
Originally Posted by Mee3
just don't think you should drag him into this.
I'm not dragging anybody into anything. I am, however, pointing out that there is actual evidence to support the fact that if you are in the cruise at low level and the horizontal stabiliser decides to depart/fold up, you will be in the ground pretty sharpish. Similarly, if you are in the cruise at altitude and the same thing happens, you will have a wild ride before (hopefully) regaining control. AS332s have been there.....
212 man - as demonstrated many times on these pages, people will read all sorts of things into what is meant to be a straightforward statement of fact.
And we wonder where the Daily Mail gets all its readers from..........
And we wonder where the Daily Mail gets all its readers from..........
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According to this story.
Australia grounds Tiger fleet after German helicopter crash in Mali | Australian Aviation
"The Australian" made the claim that Airbus had grounded the Tiger. No such action has been made by AH. The reporter appears to have misunderstood the warning issued by AH.
Australia grounds Tiger fleet after German helicopter crash in Mali | Australian Aviation
"The Australian" made the claim that Airbus had grounded the Tiger. No such action has been made by AH. The reporter appears to have misunderstood the warning issued by AH.
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Reuters: Airbus issues safety advice on Tiger helicopters flying in turbulence
I/C
Airbus Helicopters has warned pilots of its Tiger military helicopters to be careful of rapid switches from auto pilot to manual mode during turbulence, after initial indications that such a switch may have played a role in a fatal crash in Mali.
According to a source who has seen the Airbus Helicopters’ bulletin that carried the warning, the bulletin said an unexpected switch from automatic to manual flight mode “may have played a role in the accident, according to information currently available”. The bulletin did not say whether the unexpected switch had happened automatically or been done manually.
Airbus said its safety guidance - sent to operators in Germany, Australia, France and Spain - was meant to “standardise all flight manuals and remind operators that crews must adjust their attention to environmental conditions while using the auto pilot during turbulence.”
The guidance reiterated passages already in the flight manuals which instruct pilots not to intentionally enter areas with more than moderate turbulence, and to avoid flying through “areas of severe turbulence.”
According to a source who has seen the Airbus Helicopters’ bulletin that carried the warning, the bulletin said an unexpected switch from automatic to manual flight mode “may have played a role in the accident, according to information currently available”. The bulletin did not say whether the unexpected switch had happened automatically or been done manually.
Airbus said its safety guidance - sent to operators in Germany, Australia, France and Spain - was meant to “standardise all flight manuals and remind operators that crews must adjust their attention to environmental conditions while using the auto pilot during turbulence.”
The guidance reiterated passages already in the flight manuals which instruct pilots not to intentionally enter areas with more than moderate turbulence, and to avoid flying through “areas of severe turbulence.”
Otter
the bulletin said an unexpected switch from automatic to manual flight mode “may have played a role in the accident
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The Rolls Royce M250's 'reversion to manual' issues from a decade ago might be one such example, i.e. where the EMC-35 FADEC was failing unexpectedly and reverting to manual hyd backup, resulting in several fatalities (civil and military), due both to pilots not immediately realizing that the reversion had occurred, as well as due to pilot workload issues.
I/C
I/C
Originally Posted by MightyGem
How does the system know whether it's an unexpected switch form auto to manual? What is an "unexpected" switch?
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Quips aside, as far as was published* the AFCS was in "altitude hold" mode and disengaged after aircraft movement due to turbulence caused its control inputs to exceed limits and it subsequently reverted to a manual stabilization mode.
This is not considered to be the cause of the mishap, rather something that may have developed during the event and contributed to the outcome. I assume this is an early result of accessing the FDR data that was found salvageable (while the CVR apparently is not).
*: Thomas Wiegold published a German language article on the Airbus ASB issued after the crash on his blog
This is not considered to be the cause of the mishap, rather something that may have developed during the event and contributed to the outcome. I assume this is an early result of accessing the FDR data that was found salvageable (while the CVR apparently is not).
*: Thomas Wiegold published a German language article on the Airbus ASB issued after the crash on his blog
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OK, you switch ( or it switch by himself )from auto to manual due to turbulences. Why not ?
But :
1/ Why you have the nose full down until the impact ?
2/ Why the second Tiger of the team don't have the same turbulences and switch change mode ?
Many years ago, some same accident involve the "Alouette" family. At this time it was the horizontal stabilizer inflight broke . At cruise speed : 80 kts, the stabilizer broke and the Alouette fall down nose down....
Now imagine the Tiger at cruise speed : 135 kts the same things happen . ....
But :
1/ Why you have the nose full down until the impact ?
2/ Why the second Tiger of the team don't have the same turbulences and switch change mode ?
Many years ago, some same accident involve the "Alouette" family. At this time it was the horizontal stabilizer inflight broke . At cruise speed : 80 kts, the stabilizer broke and the Alouette fall down nose down....
Now imagine the Tiger at cruise speed : 135 kts the same things happen . ....
