225 cleared to fly in UK & Norway
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 90
From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
Concentric,
Further to my previous about the different oils - when using "mineral" oils the service period of flight hours and calendar period is much shorter.
That could easily contribute to a large proportion of the better result.
WRT your comments about "silica" - could it be something as simple as a poor vent on the gearbox allowing it to enter from just airborne debris? Dumber things have happened, wood for trees etc.
I did point out and demonstrate to a certain associated manufacturer how water was getting in to their gearbox which resulted in numerous changes to the venting and fixed the issue.
The unusual thing was that if you had any experience with older aircraft and different manufacturers the fix was obvious! No need to re-invent the wheel!
Further to my previous about the different oils - when using "mineral" oils the service period of flight hours and calendar period is much shorter.
That could easily contribute to a large proportion of the better result.
WRT your comments about "silica" - could it be something as simple as a poor vent on the gearbox allowing it to enter from just airborne debris? Dumber things have happened, wood for trees etc.
I did point out and demonstrate to a certain associated manufacturer how water was getting in to their gearbox which resulted in numerous changes to the venting and fixed the issue.
The unusual thing was that if you had any experience with older aircraft and different manufacturers the fix was obvious! No need to re-invent the wheel!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 280
Likes: 20
From: OZ
1 is bad luck, 2 is negligence, 3 would be a lawyers wet dream.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 481
Likes: 58
From: USA
I could see them being used in the utility world for fire work where paying public aren't sitting in the back, with no one else wanting the airframes acquisition should be a fraction of their original value.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham
I really can't see any significant N/S oilco dare to specify the 225.
That shot of the rotorless Bergen a/c haunts the industry like the shots of Piper Alpha.
Oil Cos like to think of themselves as Gung Ho cost cutting warriors. The reality is that when it comes to HSE they are a flock of corporate sheep. It's dead Jim!
Last edited by birmingham; 21st July 2017 at 11:14.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: offshore
What they obviously don't realise is the strength of feeling against flying in them again.
After the first incident I was one of quite a large number that refused to fly in them. For this we were treated to a day at Bristows being shown how good they were and the extensive checks and maintenance that would prevent it happening again. What are they going to do with us now?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 876
Likes: 0
From: Inside the Industry
There is no commercial imperative to bring the 225 back into service, North Sea or internationally. There is no shortage of S-92 capacity to fill the heavy requirement and Super Mediums are increasingly filling intermediate requirements.
Bringing a 225 on contract would probably displace a 92 or 189 /139 which are all cheaper to operate anyway. The 225 has always been more $ hourly than the 92 and with changing MGBs every 1000 hours will only be more expensive again. So, as an operator, one would really have to want to rather than need to bring it back.
We have all been told that this is the most scrutinised MGB ever, 3 or 4 times now. This time I don't believe it and I won't be putting any passengers in it.
Bringing a 225 on contract would probably displace a 92 or 189 /139 which are all cheaper to operate anyway. The 225 has always been more $ hourly than the 92 and with changing MGBs every 1000 hours will only be more expensive again. So, as an operator, one would really have to want to rather than need to bring it back.
We have all been told that this is the most scrutinised MGB ever, 3 or 4 times now. This time I don't believe it and I won't be putting any passengers in it.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
From: USA
In years past many manufacturers used turbine oils in their main gearboxes. Mostly that has all changed as it worked but not that well in hindsight.
There are much better options available today. More common these days are synthetic industrial or agricultural lubricants and in a lot of cases automatic transmission fluids.
There are much better options available today. More common these days are synthetic industrial or agricultural lubricants and in a lot of cases automatic transmission fluids.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Aberdeen
In the US, most newer rotorcraft gearboxes use a dedicated transmission oil like DOD-PRF-85734 or a commercial equivalent, rather than turbine engine oils like MIL-PRF-7808. DOD-PRF-85734 transmission oil is a synthetic base lubricant that is hard on some materials and finishes. So one consider with using this oil is ensuring all elastomer seals and coatings are chemically compatible.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 236
Likes: 4
From: All over the place
What became of the AS332L/L1 fleet? These helicopters dominated the marketplace and then just seem to have vanished completely. Between the L/L1/L2 and 225 all disappearing, this must have a major impact on Airbus revenues?
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 356
Likes: 11
From: The sky mainly
this must have a major impact on Airbus revenues?
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
From: Aer
The 225 effectively replaced the L / L1 and even L2 in some areas. Faster, smoother, better payload and with new avionic technology, it made the L Series commercially obsolete. Many Ls ended up in the secondary market like the German Border Guard. Vector bought some I think. Some were canniblised for spares as support was becoming expensive and difficult. Some even went to the scrapyard. There was a brief resurrection when the 225 was grounded first time.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham
New 225 bookings for the North Sea sector started to dry up a couple of years ago, well before the grounding. Airbus forecasts for the 225 predicted the majority of business would come from the military, and so it was proven. The grounding in some sectors, has had a slight impact on revenue.
The 225 (or rather its military versions) can certainly be re-engineered to have a bright military future and there are areas of the world where it can continue commercially.
The elephant in the room which is just not going away is doubt over the safety of the MGB. Nothing that has been said yet, is going to change that. However, there is nothing to stop AH setting out a radical re-engineering plan or, if/when it really knows, to explain exactly why this happened and a clear indication that that has been fully fixed.
Last edited by birmingham; 25th July 2017 at 11:11.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,174
Likes: 7
From: UK
I suppose they could make the top bearing housing and support lugs out of stainless steel with steel support tubes down the roof. At least the rotor should stay on should the upper planetary disassemble itself.
Whether you can control it is another matter.
Whether you can control it is another matter.