Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 595
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From: UK
And again as an objective comment, experience is only relevant to the conditions and environment in which it is gained. I am sure there are very experienced VMC pilots out there. Perception of experience can be a dangerous thing. Again, I am commenting in general terms, not to the facts in this case. I do not know who was flying or experience they had in these circumstances.
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: UK
helicrazi
I suppose there are no PPLs with thousands of hours of experience then?
and CPLs never have CFIT issues either?
I think the issue is the level of knowledge of a PPL and the misunderstanding or lack of comprehension of the risks involved
A PPL is 45 hours, it really is nothing at all, we forget the lack of experience gained in those hours,
and CPLs never have CFIT issues either?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 595
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From: UK
The PPL also has the freedom of the ground! No-go decision made real easy if you don't have to justify it in front of paying customers or employers...
I don't know about you but I've been overly suspicious about the weather from day one of flying.
And we are not talking about a 20yo happy-go-lucky thrill-seeker here. We are talking about two parents taking an unnecessary risk to leave their children as double orphans in an instance.
If they took that risk without being at least partially aware of it then they didn't do their homework. Not as a pilot and not as a parent, period.
NO understanding whatsoever!
I don't know about you but I've been overly suspicious about the weather from day one of flying.
And we are not talking about a 20yo happy-go-lucky thrill-seeker here. We are talking about two parents taking an unnecessary risk to leave their children as double orphans in an instance.
If they took that risk without being at least partially aware of it then they didn't do their homework. Not as a pilot and not as a parent, period.
NO understanding whatsoever!
I totally agree.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 595
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From: UK
You are quite right, but I stand by my comments on experience being mostly valid in the field it was gained. but yes we are all human, and that makes us susceptible to error and poor judgement.
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Birmingham
I looked at all the bulletins relating to the twin squirrel - and what percentage do you think where weather related? And I posted we simply don't know the cause yet. But I am pretty sure that weather will be one of the holes in the swiss cheese.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
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From: UK
A PPL is 45 hours, it really is nothing at all, we forget the lack of experience gained in those hours, yet the freedom of the skies is given.
Many students require more than 45 hours - they have to be up to the standard required for a skills test before they can be recommended for test and then they have to pass.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 595
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From: UK
So I am not incorrect then by your own definition. A PPL course is 45 hours.
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Den Haag
As an aside - notice that there are 3 formal reports that year into S61 accidents! An interesting contrast to today's social media fed Super Puma frenzy...,,
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
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From: UK
A PPL course is 45 hours.
Semantics but the point I'm making is that 45 hours is the minimum required to qualify - a point I make to all students I teach right at the beginning of their training.
Very few students qualify within 45 hours as it depends on their ability, the weather and other factors.
In fact the 45 hours minimum is prior to skills test and typically the test takes getting on for 2 hours.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 595
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From: UK
Semantics but the point I'm making is that 45 hours is the minimum required to qualify - a point I make to all students I teach right at the beginning of their training.
Very few students qualify within 45 hours as it depends on their ability, the weather and other factors.
In fact the 45 hours minimum is prior to skills test and typically the test takes getting on for 2 hours.
Very few students qualify within 45 hours as it depends on their ability, the weather and other factors.
In fact the 45 hours minimum is prior to skills test and typically the test takes getting on for 2 hours.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 228
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From: Cumbria
Birmingham....... , I'm glad you mentioned swiss chesse, you obviviously understand the reason model of error.
Fireflybob, while the intial training is important, I still feel in respect of flying my ex instructors and examiners (oddly includiing your insprational father) which are still sitting on my shoulders which is a good thing. But flying is about personal development, improving your skills, knowing the risks. understanding your limitations in terms of human factors related to the operation.
,
Fireflybob, while the intial training is important, I still feel in respect of flying my ex instructors and examiners (oddly includiing your insprational father) which are still sitting on my shoulders which is a good thing. But flying is about personal development, improving your skills, knowing the risks. understanding your limitations in terms of human factors related to the operation.
,
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Interloper
I will fly fixed wing with private pilots , but not helos. I advise my family to do the same. I want a commercial pilot who has enough hours that he has already scared himself . Keeps me safe(r). Too many low time owner/operators pushing the weather and get there-itis taking its toll year after year. Very sad event , and unnecessary. Poor kids.
If I had the $$ for a TwinStar I would also pay a good pilot to run the marginal weather.
If I had the $$ for a TwinStar I would also pay a good pilot to run the marginal weather.
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Den Helder
SFIM, what do you regard as "high experience"
I was just making the point that this particular pilot was not in that category.
I have seen some PPL's who have better flying skills and airmanship (TEM) than many CPL's and ATPL's i have seen, but mostly as you would expect the reverse is true.
As for your question it's subjective but anything in the 000's clearly is going to be more effective than 45(47) hours !
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 595
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From: UK
Mr TipCap, the previous poster to me started "wittering" about how the PPL course is 45 hours.
I was just making the point that this particular pilot was not in that category.
I have seen some PPL's who have better flying skills and airmanship (TEM) than many CPL's and ATPL's i have seen, but mostly as you would expect the reverse is true.
As for your question it's subjective but anything in the 000's clearly is going to be more effective than 45(47) hours !
I was just making the point that this particular pilot was not in that category.
I have seen some PPL's who have better flying skills and airmanship (TEM) than many CPL's and ATPL's i have seen, but mostly as you would expect the reverse is true.
As for your question it's subjective but anything in the 000's clearly is going to be more effective than 45(47) hours !
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Interloper
Most PPL owner/operators do not fly enough hours month after month to have high experience.
You get rusty and skills degrade if not exercised on a regular basis.
CPLs have a big advantage as they are forced to fly often. It's easy to forget s## when you've been away from it for extended periods. The rich in general don't have to fly until they have the time to play.
You get rusty and skills degrade if not exercised on a regular basis.
CPLs have a big advantage as they are forced to fly often. It's easy to forget s## when you've been away from it for extended periods. The rich in general don't have to fly until they have the time to play.