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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:33
  #81 (permalink)  
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A NOTAM is in force in the area.

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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:33
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SFIM View Post
The owner has been flying since 2000, and has high experience.
I have no idea whether he was the one actually flying yesterday
I take that on board and am not disputing his experience, my comments were more as a general comment about the issue of a PPL.

And again as an objective comment, experience is only relevant to the conditions and environment in which it is gained. I am sure there are very experienced VMC pilots out there. Perception of experience can be a dangerous thing. Again, I am commenting in general terms, not to the facts in this case. I do not know who was flying or experience they had in these circumstances.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:33
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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helicrazi
I think the issue is the level of knowledge of a PPL and the misunderstanding or lack of comprehension of the risks involved
A PPL is 45 hours, it really is nothing at all, we forget the lack of experience gained in those hours,
I suppose there are no PPLs with thousands of hours of experience then?
and CPLs never have CFIT issues either?
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:36
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Originally Posted by whoknows idont View Post
The PPL also has the freedom of the ground! No-go decision made real easy if you don't have to justify it in front of paying customers or employers...
I don't know about you but I've been overly suspicious about the weather from day one of flying.
And we are not talking about a 20yo happy-go-lucky thrill-seeker here. We are talking about two parents taking an unnecessary risk to leave their children as double orphans in an instance.
If they took that risk without being at least partially aware of it then they didn't do their homework. Not as a pilot and not as a parent, period.
NO understanding whatsoever!

I totally agree.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:39
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopjock View Post
helicrazi




I suppose there are no PPLs with thousands of hours of experience then?
and CPLs never have CFIT issues either?
You are quite right, but I stand by my comments on experience being mostly valid in the field it was gained. but yes we are all human, and that makes us susceptible to error and poor judgement.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:45
  #86 (permalink)  

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You can have thousands of hours experience, yet not know much about mountain flying, which is a whole different ballgame.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:50
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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You use your experience not to get into situations where you need your experience to get out of them.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:01
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Originally Posted by Heli Fat View Post
Why is it when something like this happens you all turn into experts all of a sudden!! Let the professionals handle it and stop speculating!

Thoughts to the families involved
The professionals will handle it - but if we have no interest in this stuff we won't learn. And to be fair; before you flame people - most posters have been absolutely clear that there are a myriad of possible causes. Everybody is sympathetic and hardly any have been remotely judgemental.

I looked at all the bulletins relating to the twin squirrel - and what percentage do you think where weather related? And I posted we simply don't know the cause yet. But I am pretty sure that weather will be one of the holes in the swiss cheese.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:10
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A PPL is 45 hours, it really is nothing at all, we forget the lack of experience gained in those hours, yet the freedom of the skies is given.
Incorrect - a PPL requires a minimum of 45 hours total flying prior to skills test.
Many students require more than 45 hours - they have to be up to the standard required for a skills test before they can be recommended for test and then they have to pass.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:13
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Originally Posted by fireflybob View Post
Incorrect - a PPL requires a minimum of 45 hours total flying prior to skills test.
Many students require more than 45 hours - they have to be up to the standard required for a skills test before they can be recommended for test and then they have to pass.
So I am not incorrect then by your own definition. A PPL course is 45 hours.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:17
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Originally Posted by fireflybob View Post
Incorrect - a PPL requires a minimum of 45 hours total flying prior to skills test.
Many students require more than 45 hours - they have to be up to the standard required for a skills test before they can be recommended for test.
Which is a telling statement in itself! Case in point: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422ecace5274a1314000119/5-1990_G-SHBB.pdf

As an aside - notice that there are 3 formal reports that year into S61 accidents! An interesting contrast to today's social media fed Super Puma frenzy...,,
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:18
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A PPL course is 45 hours.

Semantics but the point I'm making is that 45 hours is the minimum required to qualify - a point I make to all students I teach right at the beginning of their training.

Very few students qualify within 45 hours as it depends on their ability, the weather and other factors.

In fact the 45 hours minimum is prior to skills test and typically the test takes getting on for 2 hours.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:29
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Originally Posted by fireflybob View Post
Semantics but the point I'm making is that 45 hours is the minimum required to qualify - a point I make to all students I teach right at the beginning of their training.

Very few students qualify within 45 hours as it depends on their ability, the weather and other factors.

In fact the 45 hours minimum is prior to skills test and typically the test takes getting on for 2 hours.
I agree and not trying to be agrumentative, but if we take the test into account that's 47 hours achievable. There's a lot to learn, experience and appreciate in that time. Totally off toptic but to think you can hit the north Sea circa 200 hours...
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:40
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Birmingham....... , I'm glad you mentioned swiss chesse, you obviviously understand the reason model of error.

Fireflybob, while the intial training is important, I still feel in respect of flying my ex instructors and examiners (oddly includiing your insprational father) which are still sitting on my shoulders which is a good thing. But flying is about personal development, improving your skills, knowing the risks. understanding your limitations in terms of human factors related to the operation.

,
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:40
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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I will fly fixed wing with private pilots , but not helos. I advise my family to do the same. I want a commercial pilot who has enough hours that he has already scared himself . Keeps me safe(r). Too many low time owner/operators pushing the weather and get there-itis taking its toll year after year. Very sad event , and unnecessary. Poor kids.
If I had the $$ for a TwinStar I would also pay a good pilot to run the marginal weather.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:51
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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The owner has been flying since 2000, and has high experience.
SFIM, what do you regard as "high experience"
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 21:55
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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But flying is about personal development, improving your skills, knowing the risks. understanding your limitations in terms of human factors related to the operation.
Homsap, I could not agree more!
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 22:01
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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SFIM, what do you regard as "high experience"
Mr TipCap, the previous poster to me started "wittering" about how the PPL course is 45 hours.
I was just making the point that this particular pilot was not in that category.
I have seen some PPL's who have better flying skills and airmanship (TEM) than many CPL's and ATPL's i have seen, but mostly as you would expect the reverse is true.
As for your question it's subjective but anything in the 000's clearly is going to be more effective than 45(47) hours !
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 22:05
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SFIM View Post
Mr TipCap, the previous poster to me started "wittering" about how the PPL course is 45 hours.
I was just making the point that this particular pilot was not in that category.
I have seen some PPL's who have better flying skills and airmanship (TEM) than many CPL's and ATPL's i have seen, but mostly as you would expect the reverse is true.
As for your question it's subjective but anything in the 000's clearly is going to be more effective than 45(47) hours !
At risk of 'wittering', it depends what those 000's were doing and how relevant they are to the flying task at hand, which was my previous 'wittering' point
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 22:18
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Most PPL owner/operators do not fly enough hours month after month to have high experience.
You get rusty and skills degrade if not exercised on a regular basis.
CPLs have a big advantage as they are forced to fly often. It's easy to forget s## when you've been away from it for extended periods. The rich in general don't have to fly until they have the time to play.
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