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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

Old 12th Mar 2018, 15:07
  #421 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 460

Several of my civilian PPL(H) clients have (and occasionally still do) phoned me to run their plans past me and to take my advice on their suitability and the weather. On occasions the flight has been curtailed, on others it's been re-routed or delayed. On a few, the pilot has been hesitant but after discussing scenarios and plan B (and C, and D etc), the flights have been successfully accomplished when they would have been cancelled without the chat. However, several of my clients would never consider such a phone call as they like to exercise their own judgement.

This accident, as with so many others, is probably down to the personality type. As with attendees of Safety Awareness evenings, those that are likely to welcome an 'authorisation' chat, are the ones that are least likely to need it.


Last edited by jellycopter; 13th Mar 2018 at 02:04.
jellycopter is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2018, 15:29
  #422 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,697
Jelly - I'm sure there are more like you and your students out there doing it right, that phone call is all that is required and they clearly respect your advice.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:03
  #423 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 508
Crab - that all sounds a lot of sense now. I'm sure there would be quite a few pilots (maybe retired) who would love to be a wise old sounding board to those that contacted such a group. I wonder if it really could be organised and publicised? And who would be best to nudge the vulnerable into using such expertise? Tricky, but probably less difficult in this era of social media and web etc. Sounds like Jelly has got a good rapport - and that's key I think. Be great if it could work on a decent scale and those who most needed it used it!
rotorspeed is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2018, 07:57
  #424 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 899
Crab, Paco;

I'll call you both today when I've got my drunks, sorry, tired and emotional pax to Cheltenham. There are some other names on the list, quite a few Paco will know. I'm aiming for a core of 6-8 to get things started.

Sir Niall Dementia is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2018, 07:59
  #425 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,795
Sure, will look forward to it.
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 08:51
  #426 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,697
Ok thanks, hope no-one hurls in the back!!
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2018, 09:36
  #427 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bristol
Posts: 164
Following on to crabs point probabably we all need a mentor regardless of our experience. I have mentored ex students and sydicates/fying groups over the years and sometimes you have to point out the error of pilots ways.

Whether I was mentoring or authorising I think the criteria may vary between different pilots.

For example, what if a pilot phones me this morning regarding a flight this afternoon from Bristol to Jersey in a PA28. I go through the weather with him, it is nil wind and CAVOK all the way, I check his fuel plan, load sheet and the MEL. Do I say yes that is fine for you to go.

So should I check he has an immersion suit, PLB, lifejacket flares, if he hasn't should I advise him to delay the flight until June. Again the issue is my duty of care, if I do not tell him that he needs the above euipment and he ditches and dies of hypothermia, what is my position in law?

Within the framework of flying clubs and the military authorisation I think authorisation and mentoring, yet the problem is where the aircraft owner and operator will not take advice.
anchorhold is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2018, 09:57
  #428 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,684
Anchorhold - good observation.

In practice, I still think the most effective way to get a message across is to organise/get involved in, regional flight safety meetings.
Arrange them yourself, invite local pilots to attend, have a beer/meal make it informal. Give lectures or tell stories and share your experiences.
That way, more will learn and they too will want to share.

This surely must be happening somewhere in the UK, no?
Thomas coupling is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2018, 10:11
  #429 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,684
Crikey - I see what you mean, thanks Hargreaves.

Is it time for another session methinks?

New thread perhaps?
Thomas coupling is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2018, 12:19
  #430 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,795
Yeah, we had several at helicopter services, gary spender, shawn coyle and a few others turned up, at redhill as well.

Leon graciously allowed some people to sit in the sim and get crap weather between denham and wycombe. That made a severe point!

I'm going to be there between 21st and 25th if anyone wants a quick meeting in licensed premises.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 19:38
  #431 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 307
GASCo Safety Evenings, (what was the old CAA safety evenings), some 50-60 nationwide during the autumn to spring period, are aimed at ALL GA pilots and major on Human Factors.
There are plans to have a dedicated GASCo helicopter safety day later this year.
But those who attend Safety presentations are generally the least likely to have a mishap. It's a mindset thing....
idle stop is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2018, 20:03
  #432 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Good Question
Posts: 71
Did I read the article correctly in the Daily Mail yesterday that the pilot/owner had just taken cocaine before the flight.
PEASACAKE is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2018, 20:24
  #433 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,795
I think it said there were traces - still not good, though.
paco is offline  

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