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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

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Old 29th Mar 2017, 22:33
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by justmaybe View Post
Don't mean to be insensitive, but given that we were all mandated to carry elt/plb might have thought that there would be some indications...
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/3688.pdf

ELTs effective 40-60% of the time according to this paper
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 03:02
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptPenguin View Post

ELTs effective 40-60% of the time according to this paper
Are we to assume the missing helicopter is not fitted with pop-out floats and it went missing over water? ELT's are effective 0% of the time if the aircraft sinks, unless you're really lucky and the ELT gets a ping off at impact which is captured by an overhead satellite.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 05:32
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
Are we to assume the missing helicopter is not fitted with pop-out floats and it went missing over water? ELT's are effective 0% of the time if the aircraft sinks, unless you're really lucky and the ELT gets a ping off at impact which is captured by an overhead satellite.
I flew about 800 hours in that particular airframe and she didn't have floats then.

SND
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 06:07
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Owners have now been named, the heli was frequently hired out to film crews and was en-route to Weston Airport, Dublin-Kildare border

Search called off due to bad weather/poor visibility, Snowdonia search & rescue teams will be out at first light subject to weather along with sea & air searching by commercial craft and public have been asked to keep a look out for wreckage on land or shoreline

No mayday calls had been received according to Coastguard
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 06:15
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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if it went down overland, any search would have been ceased when it went dark and resumed at first light
no it wouldn't, with FLIR, NVG and white light you can search in pretty much any conditions, it is just the quality of the search that varies.

With perhaps 5 people in the water there is every urgency to throw more assets into the search rather than less.


JimF671 - why tweak the S-92s software so they don't show up?
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 06:26
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Isn't that operated by Helicopter Services (@ Booker)?
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 06:41
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Originally Posted by fairflyer View Post
Isn't that operated by Helicopter Services (@ Booker)?

Photo's of it have Cabair and Ladbrookes on the side and nose
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 06:43
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure if the flight would have been talking to London Information but probably so, especially planning to do an over water flight. I am assuming he had reported his planned route as via Caenarvon bay but I wonder if he actually reported coasting out?
It is possible the accident happened prior to that and possible CFIT in Snowdonia hence the present ground search now.
I guess the radar tapes would have been pulled and checked though this only of us if within radar contact so this may give an idea of last area of contact.
As a voice of Scottish Information I speak to these guys on a daily basis so we all take it to heart when something like this happens.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 06:51
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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This is not good....

07:40
Visibility is poor this morning

There are currently “no plans to continue aerial search” because the visibility is so poor. The forecast for the area is not looking great today. It looks like it is going to be cloudy and damp for most of the day in the north and west of Wales.

Mountains and sea being searched for missing helicopter carrying five people - live updates - Wales Online
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:11
  #30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by fairflyer View Post
Isn't that operated by Helicopter Services (@ Booker)?
G-Info page:

Aircraft operated by AOC Holder:V21 LTD
TRADING AS:
HELICOPTER SERVICES
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:22
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought flying this route either fixed or rotary wing you would be talking to London Information and RAF Valley as soon as possible, not least because of the potential conflict with military traffic. I suspect the aircraft did not reach the coast.

Of course with deteriorating weather and trying to maintain VFR, this aircraft might have been at such a height that no ATS would be available, likewise the aircraft would have dissappered off the radar. Do we have the Valley TAF or Actuals?

In respect of the 'coasting out' call, or using London Information I'm not sure how many pilots actually would do this, even though it is good practice, likewise the wearing immerssion suits.

My guess is that the aircraft did not make the coast.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:24
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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The helo left from LTN

10:23
The helicopter left from Luton

North Wales Police have released a statement this morning saying they are continuing their search for a missing helicopter and it’s passengers after it failed to arrive at its intended destination in Dublin yesterday afternoon.



The aircraft departed from Luton earlier in the day with 5 passengers on board.
When it failed to arrive the authorities were notified and a large scale search commenced.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:25
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10:24
Police thoughts are with the families

Police, RAF and civilian helicopters were initially utilised to conduct searches over the sea.
The search has now been confined to land in the Snowdonia area with a number of local Mountain Rescue Teams also being used.
Superintendent Gareth Evans at North Wales Police said in a statement:
All available Police, Mountain Rescue and other civilian resources are currently being utilised and we are grateful for the assistance and cooperation of the public as well as our MRT volunteers who are searching very difficult and challenging terrain.
Five people are believed to be on board this ‘private’ flight and specialist Police family liaison officers are in contact with family members. At this stage we are not revealing their names and our thoughts are very much with their families at this difficult time.
We are also appealing for help from the public and local communities and so I’d ask if anyone who has sighted the aircraft flying over Snowdonia yesterday and thinks they may know of its whereabouts to contact North Wales Police via the live web chat http://www.north-wales.police.uk/con...t-support.aspx or by phoning 101.”
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:43
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Current weather in Snowdonia area is rain/drizzle with SSW winds at 13mph with gusts of upto 40mph, visibility down to 10 meters in places on higher ground
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:51
  #35 (permalink)  
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Weather conditions at 4 pm at Capel Curig (216 m amsl, around 20 km northeast of Snowdonia, Bala (165 m amsl, 30 km east) and Aberdaron (95 m amsl, around 40 km southwest).

Capel Curig
AAXX 29154 03305 47423 /2327 10116 20106 39892 40152 58008 781//
333 85/10 87/19 90710 91140==


Wind 230 @ 27 knots, gust 40 knots, Temp 11.6 C, Dewpoint 10.6 C, Cloud 5/8 at 1000 ft, 7/8 at 1900 ft

Bala
AAXX 29154 03409 46/// /2308 10119 20112 39962 40159 57006 333 55300 2////

Wind 230 @ 8 knots, temp 11.9 C, dewpoint 11.2 C, no cloud data

Aberdaron
AAXX 29154 03405 46/02 /2024 10098 20098 30040 40155 56009
333 55300 20294 90710 91131==

Wind 200 @ 24 knots gust 31 knots, temp 9.8 C, dewpoint 9.8 C, no cloud data
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:51
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Can the Twin Squirrel make Milton Keynes to Weston non-stop with 5 pax, or would it need to stop for a top up?
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 09:53
  #37 (permalink)  

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Here's a handy site I use;
Formulario para peticion de mensajes aeronauticos

Query made at 03/30/2017 09:48:20 UTC

Time interval: from 03/29/2017 12:00 to 03/29/2017 20:59 UTC

EGOV, Valley (United Kingdom).
WMO index: 03302. Latitude 53-15N. Longitude 004-32W. Altitude 11 m.


METAR/SPECI from EGOV, Valley (United Kingdom).
SA 29/03/2017 20:50-> METAR EGOV 292050Z AUTO 17023KT 3500 BR OVC003/// 11/10 Q1014=
SA 29/03/2017 20:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SA 29/03/2017 19:50-> METAR EGOV 291950Z 17021KT 9999 -RA OVC004 11/10 Q1013 YLO2=
SA 29/03/2017 19:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SA 29/03/2017 18:50-> METAR EGOV 291850Z 17020KT 9999 -RA OVC006 11/10 Q1013 YLO1=
SA 29/03/2017 18:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SA 29/03/2017 17:50-> METAR EGOV 291750Z 17019KT 6000 -RADZ OVC005 11/10 Q1014 YLO1=
SA 29/03/2017 17:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SA 29/03/2017 16:50-> METAR EGOV 291650Z 17020KT 9999 OVC004 11/10 Q1014 YLO2=
SA 29/03/2017 16:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SA 29/03/2017 15:50-> METAR EGOV 291550Z 18022KT 6000 VCSH OVC003 11/10 Q1014 BLACKYLO2 TEMPO 3000 RADZ YLO2=
SA 29/03/2017 15:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SA 29/03/2017 14:50-> METAR EGOV 291450Z 17022KT 7000 VCSH OVC003 11/11 Q1014 BLACKYLO2 TEMPO OVC005 YLO1=
SA 29/03/2017 14:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SP 29/03/2017 14:10-> SPECI EGOV 291410Z 17019KT 4000 -RADZ BKN003 OVC008 11/11 Q1014 BLACKYLO2 BECMG FEW003 BKN008 GRN=
SA 29/03/2017 13:50-> METAR EGOV 291350Z 17019KT 4000 -RADZ FEW004 OVC006 11/11 Q1014 BLACKYLO1 TEMPO 3000 RADZ SCT004 OVC006 YLO2=
SA 29/03/2017 13:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SA 29/03/2017 12:50-> METAR EGOV 291250Z 17020KT 6000 -RA BKN004 OVC007 11/11 Q1014 BLACKYLO2 TEMPO 4000 RADZ YLO2=
SP 29/03/2017 12:40-> SPECI EGOV 291240Z 17020KT 3500 -DZ BKN003 OVC008 11/11 Q1014 BLACKYLO2 BECMG 9999 NSW FEW003 BKN010 GRN=
SA 29/03/2017 12:20-> METAR EGOV NIL=
SP 29/03/2017 12:16-> SPECI EGOV 291216Z 17021KT 9999 FEW004 OVC007 11/11 Q1015 BLACKGRN TEMPO 4000 RADZ BKN004 YLO2=


short TAF from EGOV, Valley (United Kingdom).
FC 29/03/2017 16:04-> TAF EGOV 291604Z 2915/2919 CNL=
FC 29/03/2017 14:20-> TAF EGOV 291420Z 2915/2919 17025KT 8000 BR OVC007 TEMPO 2915/2919 3000 RADZ BKN003=

A Coastguard spokesman said radar contact with the helicopter was lost this afternoon and the Coastguard was notified to start a search operation at 4.15pm.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 10:16
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Not the sort of weather you want to be in Snowdonia in.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 10:19
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BBC at 11:00

A land search is under way to try to find a helicopter carrying five people which went missing over north Wales.

North Wales Police is coordinating the search in Snowdonia with the Coastguard and other agencies.
UK Coastguard duty commander Mark Rodaway said six mountain rescue teams and a dog unit were hampered by visibility of just 10ft (3m) in places.
The privately-owned helicopter vanished while over Caernarfon Bay en route to Dublin from Luton.

Radar contact with the red Twin Squirrel helicopter was lost on Wednesday afternoon and initial searches followed the intended flight plan of the aircraft over the Irish Sea.
Supt Gareth Evans of North Wales Police said "All available police, mountain rescue and other civilian resources are currently being utilised and we are grateful for the assistance and cooperation of the public as well as our MRT volunteers who are searching very difficult and challenging terrain."

Supt Evans said family members of those on board had been contacted by police, but their names have not been released.

Image caption HM Coastguard helicopters searched for the missing aircraft Mr Rodaway said: "These aircraft normally carry beacons that we can track by satellite - they're activated by salt water - we've not seen any of that and also mobile phone data has aided our inquiries in shifting inland."

Helicopter searches between north Wales and the shore of Dublin on Wednesday were scuppered by low lying cloud, which reduced visibility.

Mr Rodaway said the bad weather in Snowdonia gave him "concern" about sending Coastguard helicopters into the mountain range, but if weather conditions improved throughout the morning, they would be able to send air support to aid the search teams on the ground.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 10:30
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Tragic. Just heard the helicopter has been located on a mountain. No survivors.
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