General advice on training and job prospects
A quick look at any aviation job site will show the sad state of the industry. Literally hundreds of jobs for fixed-wing and airlines. Next to none for rotary.
As a certain Redneck Comedian tells us......"Here''s your Sign!".
All of those youngsters I knew that left Helicopters for fixed wing are all happy, better paid, better job security, and better perks.
Most were approaching their peak level progression shy of entering management and had suffered the usual helicopter world lifestyle long enough to see a better way of life than what loomed.
Make your own choice but do so after some very careful consideration of ALL of the various factors and influences that apply to each route....helicopters or fixed wing.
The following 2 users liked this post by SASless:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,831
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
7 Posts
I don't know what doesn't seem right to you about that, but what muermel is specifying is perfectly right - an MCC course is either VFR only or includes MCC training under IFR conditions.
FCL.735.H
Multi-crew cooperation training course – helicopters Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011
Multi-crew cooperation training course – helicopters Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011
(a) The MCC training course shall comprise at least:
(1) for MCC/IR:
(i) 25 hours of theoretical knowledge instruction and exercises; and
(ii) 20 hours of practical MCC training or 15 hours, in the case of student pilots attending an ATP(H)/IR integrated course. When the MCC training is combined with the initial type rating training for a multi-pilot helicopter, the practical MCC training may be reduced to not less than 10 hours if the same FSTD is used for both MCC and type rating;
(ii) 20 hours of practical MCC training or 15 hours, in the case of student pilots attending an ATP(H)/IR integrated course. When the MCC training is combined with the initial type rating training for a multi-pilot helicopter, the practical MCC training may be reduced to not less than 10 hours if the same FSTD is used for both MCC and type rating;
(2) for MCC/VFR:
(i) 25 hours of theoretical knowledge instruction and exercises; and
(ii) 15 hours of practical MCC training or 10 hours, in the case of student pilots attending an ATP(H)/IR integrated course. When the MCC training is combined with the initial type rating training for a multi-pilot helicopter, the practical MCC training may be reduced to not less than 7 hours if the same FSTD is used for both MCC and type rating.
(ii) 15 hours of practical MCC training or 10 hours, in the case of student pilots attending an ATP(H)/IR integrated course. When the MCC training is combined with the initial type rating training for a multi-pilot helicopter, the practical MCC training may be reduced to not less than 7 hours if the same FSTD is used for both MCC and type rating.
(b) The MCC training course shall be completed within 6 months at an ATO. An FNPT II or III qualified for MCC, an FTD 2/3 or an FFS shall be used.
(c) Unless the MCC course has been combined with a multi-pilot type rating course, on completion of the MCC training course the applicant shall be given a certificate of completion.
(d) An applicant having completed MCC training for any other category of aircraft shall be exempted from the requirement in (a)(1)(i) or (a)(2)(i), as applicable.
(e) An applicant for MCC/IR training who has completed MCC/VFR training shall be exempted from the requirement in (a)(1)(i), and shall complete 5 hours of practical MCC/IR training.
(c) Unless the MCC course has been combined with a multi-pilot type rating course, on completion of the MCC training course the applicant shall be given a certificate of completion.
(d) An applicant having completed MCC training for any other category of aircraft shall be exempted from the requirement in (a)(1)(i) or (a)(2)(i), as applicable.
(e) An applicant for MCC/IR training who has completed MCC/VFR training shall be exempted from the requirement in (a)(1)(i), and shall complete 5 hours of practical MCC/IR training.
Last edited by ApolloHeli; 23rd Jan 2023 at 20:11. Reason: Formatting
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,831
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
7 Posts
Nothing at all... I was just commenting on the bizarre conversation:
Blah blah... MCC/IR
Do you mean MCC?
Of course I meant MCC/IR, my bad...
MCC/IR is an unusual term. As likely more people have walked on the moon than done a MCC/VFR - the course is generally referred to simply as MCC.
Blah blah... MCC/IR
Do you mean MCC?
Of course I meant MCC/IR, my bad...
MCC/IR is an unusual term. As likely more people have walked on the moon than done a MCC/VFR - the course is generally referred to simply as MCC.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had a browse through the pinned thread but I'm pretty sure this might be a bit of a novel question.
I'm leaving the RAF(multi-engine) after 6 years and an unfortunate lack of wings, and on closer inspection I've found that I am far more motivated by civil rotary work than fixed wing! I have a couple applications in for sponsored training (one FW and one RW with Bristow) but in the event that I am unsuccessful, I'm looking to try and figure out if it might not be more cost effective or valuable to do my RW training in Canada and convert a TCCA CPL (H) into a CAA ATPL(H) at all?
The regulatory changes seem to have complicated matters enormously, as the TCCA to EASA route is far better documented and supported. I would even be open to TCCA to EASA to CAA if it would represent a huge value-add in terms of employability!
My end goal would very much be SAR/HEMS/Police if at all possible, UK preferred but frankly no ties to staying if the pay and opportunities are better in Canada/NZ/AUS/US too!
Or, is the RW world sufficiently hard up that if I can't get a sponsored place and guarantee of a job, that paying for my FW licences and crossing over if the opportunity arises is the better plan?
I'm leaving the RAF(multi-engine) after 6 years and an unfortunate lack of wings, and on closer inspection I've found that I am far more motivated by civil rotary work than fixed wing! I have a couple applications in for sponsored training (one FW and one RW with Bristow) but in the event that I am unsuccessful, I'm looking to try and figure out if it might not be more cost effective or valuable to do my RW training in Canada and convert a TCCA CPL (H) into a CAA ATPL(H) at all?
The regulatory changes seem to have complicated matters enormously, as the TCCA to EASA route is far better documented and supported. I would even be open to TCCA to EASA to CAA if it would represent a huge value-add in terms of employability!
My end goal would very much be SAR/HEMS/Police if at all possible, UK preferred but frankly no ties to staying if the pay and opportunities are better in Canada/NZ/AUS/US too!
Or, is the RW world sufficiently hard up that if I can't get a sponsored place and guarantee of a job, that paying for my FW licences and crossing over if the opportunity arises is the better plan?
Nothing at all... I was just commenting on the bizarre conversation:
Blah blah... MCC/IR
Do you mean MCC?
Of course I meant MCC/IR, my bad...
MCC/IR is an unusual term. As likely more people have walked on the moon than done a MCC/VFR - the course is generally referred to simply as MCC.
Blah blah... MCC/IR
Do you mean MCC?
Of course I meant MCC/IR, my bad...
MCC/IR is an unusual term. As likely more people have walked on the moon than done a MCC/VFR - the course is generally referred to simply as MCC.
The following users liked this post:
I've had a browse through the pinned thread but I'm pretty sure this might be a bit of a novel question.
I'm leaving the RAF(multi-engine) after 6 years and an unfortunate lack of wings, and on closer inspection I've found that I am far more motivated by civil rotary work than fixed wing! I have a couple applications in for sponsored training (one FW and one RW with Bristow) but in the event that I am unsuccessful, I'm looking to try and figure out if it might not be more cost effective or valuable to do my RW training in Canada and convert a TCCA CPL (H) into a CAA ATPL(H) at all?
The regulatory changes seem to have complicated matters enormously, as the TCCA to EASA route is far better documented and supported. I would even be open to TCCA to EASA to CAA if it would represent a huge value-add in terms of employability!
My end goal would very much be SAR/HEMS/Police if at all possible, UK preferred but frankly no ties to staying if the pay and opportunities are better in Canada/NZ/AUS/US too!
Or, is the RW world sufficiently hard up that if I can't get a sponsored place and guarantee of a job, that paying for my FW licences and crossing over if the opportunity arises is the better plan?
I'm leaving the RAF(multi-engine) after 6 years and an unfortunate lack of wings, and on closer inspection I've found that I am far more motivated by civil rotary work than fixed wing! I have a couple applications in for sponsored training (one FW and one RW with Bristow) but in the event that I am unsuccessful, I'm looking to try and figure out if it might not be more cost effective or valuable to do my RW training in Canada and convert a TCCA CPL (H) into a CAA ATPL(H) at all?
The regulatory changes seem to have complicated matters enormously, as the TCCA to EASA route is far better documented and supported. I would even be open to TCCA to EASA to CAA if it would represent a huge value-add in terms of employability!
My end goal would very much be SAR/HEMS/Police if at all possible, UK preferred but frankly no ties to staying if the pay and opportunities are better in Canada/NZ/AUS/US too!
Or, is the RW world sufficiently hard up that if I can't get a sponsored place and guarantee of a job, that paying for my FW licences and crossing over if the opportunity arises is the better plan?
Now if you want to go rotary, you have a much bigger outlay ahead of you. If you have the cash, you could go the integrated route with Helicentre but that's a big wedge of debt in one go (and there are mixed reviews of their training). Alternatively you could go modular but remember you are going to have to work through the whole PPL, hours building, CPL, IR route which is vastly more expensive than the equivalent fixed wing route (particularly given you can short cut the PPL and hours building). Then you are still a low hours rotary pilot - rigs would then be the obviously route to get the hours to get an ATPL.
Third option is a hybrid. Do your fixed wing stuff, fly for an airline for a few years. You can then bridge sideways to helicopters later. Only 5 exams, shorter CPL and IR modular courses and lots of relevant multi-crew experience in your CV. You would also have a steady income to pay for the flying training.
I think the other states of licencing are red-herrings until you have a magic ATPL of some type. The credit to hop between ICAO CPL's is poor compared to having an ATPL to convert. Each time you jump its all the exams again. And if you don't have an ATPL(A), its an IR test for each jump. No thanks.
So my plan would be to get my UK Class 1 medical (because refusal disappoints) get started with your UK ATPL exams (aeroplane), speak to UKFlying.com about credits and get your hands on a CPL(A)/IR with ATPL credit. Join an airline, get some hours, then decide where next.
HEMS/Police is awesome but unless you want to sit as a co-pilot for a looooong time you needs hours somewhere else (airlines/offshore/instructing).
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South...way south!
Age: 53
Posts: 20
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had a browse through the pinned thread but I'm pretty sure this might be a bit of a novel question.
I'm leaving the RAF(multi-engine) after 6 years and an unfortunate lack of wings, and on closer inspection I've found that I am far more motivated by civil rotary work than fixed wing! I have a couple applications in for sponsored training (one FW and one RW with Bristow) but in the event that I am unsuccessful, I'm looking to try and figure out if it might not be more cost effective or valuable to do my RW training in Canada and convert a TCCA CPL (H) into a CAA ATPL(H) at all?
The regulatory changes seem to have complicated matters enormously, as the TCCA to EASA route is far better documented and supported. I would even be open to TCCA to EASA to CAA if it would represent a huge value-add in terms of employability!
My end goal would very much be SAR/HEMS/Police if at all possible, UK preferred but frankly no ties to staying if the pay and opportunities are better in Canada/NZ/AUS/US too!
Or, is the RW world sufficiently hard up that if I can't get a sponsored place and guarantee of a job, that paying for my FW licences and crossing over if the opportunity arises is the better plan?
I'm leaving the RAF(multi-engine) after 6 years and an unfortunate lack of wings, and on closer inspection I've found that I am far more motivated by civil rotary work than fixed wing! I have a couple applications in for sponsored training (one FW and one RW with Bristow) but in the event that I am unsuccessful, I'm looking to try and figure out if it might not be more cost effective or valuable to do my RW training in Canada and convert a TCCA CPL (H) into a CAA ATPL(H) at all?
The regulatory changes seem to have complicated matters enormously, as the TCCA to EASA route is far better documented and supported. I would even be open to TCCA to EASA to CAA if it would represent a huge value-add in terms of employability!
My end goal would very much be SAR/HEMS/Police if at all possible, UK preferred but frankly no ties to staying if the pay and opportunities are better in Canada/NZ/AUS/US too!
Or, is the RW world sufficiently hard up that if I can't get a sponsored place and guarantee of a job, that paying for my FW licences and crossing over if the opportunity arises is the better plan?
Your best bet for rotary is the US and the FAA licence. Some schools offered a J1 visa which allowed you to instruct after your initial training for up to two years, this is a great way to build experience and hours in your logbook. You'd need to research to see if this is still the case, I'm sure it is though. After a couple of years instructing and 1000 hours in your logbook convert your qualifications to the CAA if you still want to work in the UK.
Hi all
I haven't done my MCC yet (yes the MCC IR) as I finished the IR-H later than planned. Is anybody looking for a SIM buddy for the MCC in the next 2-3 months and has a course already booked/ reserved? If not, HeliCentre NL could offer a course in November 6th - 15th if somebody is interested.
Bye
I haven't done my MCC yet (yes the MCC IR) as I finished the IR-H later than planned. Is anybody looking for a SIM buddy for the MCC in the next 2-3 months and has a course already booked/ reserved? If not, HeliCentre NL could offer a course in November 6th - 15th if somebody is interested.
Bye
