Fitting a Go-Pro on a Helicopter - Any Issues?

[FLY 7]

The little Go-Pro HD cameras are brilliant.

We routinely attach them to race cars, motor bikes, ski helmets......you name it, with great results. They are also regularly used in aircraft cockpits.

But, can you attach one to the outside of a helicopter, say to the skids or a step for private use/training? Are there special rules, does an engineer need to check it, etc?

They are tiny - about the size of a match box, weigh nothing, and can be attached with total security (ie it will not move or fall off).

[Wageslave]

I think you'll find that anything "attached" to the aircraft requires an exemption and/or certification of the kit from the CAA, so best ask them, they'll be happy to show you the correct way. But heaven help you if anything happens and you haven't followed the correct procedure.

No doubt others will be able to quote chapter and verse.

[TeeS]

Hi Fly

Rather than thinking:

.....can be attached with total security (ie it will not move or fall off).

Start from 'when it falls off, where can it go, what can it jam, who can it hurt, what secondary restraint can I use'.

Personally, in this day and age, I would not fit it outside without suitable engineering advice - the days of gaffer tape attachment are gone.

Regards

TeeS

[Max Contingency]

and can be attached with total security (ie it will not move or fall off).

Are you willing to bet your life on it?

[FLY 7]

Yes. The location and security of the item would give me as much confidence as anything else on the helicopter. However, it would be useful to know if any one had encountered the specific rules.

[Thracian]

Well, I do not now the specific rules, but attaching something (FLIR, rocket launchers, Movie-Camera Guimbals, GoPros, ...) to the outside of a helicopter will definitely change it´s weight&balance-situation and - even more important - it´s aerodynamics.
This change may not be relevant for the flight characteristics, but we as pilots are not allowed to judge it.
I can imagine, that "aerodynamical changes" need at least a certified workshop or even the manufacturer to evaluate the grade of change and issue an "STC" or something similar.
Remember: This should have to be done for every single mounting point, cause mounting a GoPro to the skid may be totally different from mounting it to the tip of a rotor blade (well, for the rotor to stay in balance, you should mount one GoPro to each tip of each rotor blade ;-) )...

So, mounting any "non certified" external equipment with any "non-certified" method at any "non certified" mounting point, may put at stake the type certification (and insurance!) of this very helicopter.

Anyway: Of course you just can give it a try and hope for the best, but please, don´t complain if this went out to the worst.

I´d rather be using the GoPro from inside the cockpit...

Thracian

[gootybalajiniranjan]

we have tried it
gopro hero 4 black
excellent recording however slight amount of vibrations may be there
i dont think any certification would be required because its not altering any flying characteristics and interfering with nav eqpt

[Radam559]

Go-Pro

Wow! I am kind of surprised by the responses to this so far... Its like a bunch of members of the FAA or international equivalent just spoke up at the same time.


That being said, I have never personally attached a go-pro or anything to the aircraft I fly, but that's not so say I wouldn't...I know many people who have and have seen many videos of people who have. Obviously its an added hazard because yes it could come loose and fall off. If it hit the main rotor or tail rotor, then you would be having a very bad day...If it falls off and hits someone or something on the ground...yes its possibly going to do some serious damage... Yes the FAA or someone may see it and be a little upitty or a lot upitty since they like to react that way. That being said if your smart about it, mount it solidly then there is no reason why you couldn't do it. I would never use the little sticky pads to slap it on the fuselage somewhere, but they make some pretty bomber roll bar mounts or the mounts are extremely versatile and easy to make custom. The weight and balance issue is nill... its not like were talking about a HD movie camera for professional work...we are talking about a little camera and mount that maybe weighs in at 2lbs (on the heavy side if you made a bomber mount) I loose 2 lbs when I take a dump sometimes and I am not going to redo my w&b for that... I fly with spray booms with all sorts of things that "could come loose and fall off"...But yes there is probably a "rule" against it...just like I shouldn't go 60 in a 55mph zone...

[RyRy]

GoPro makes a suction mount that has been shown to stay attached at over 200mph. The same mount has also been shown to fail at 50mph lol.

And their adhesive mounts are pretty much permanent... a fact they don't really explain in any detail. There is a S76 in Malabo with my adhesive mount still stuck above the PIC seat on the ceiling lol. Owed the engineers a few beers for that little 'Whoops!' haha.

[wallism]

Why attach it outside? We all have panoramic views and permanently clean transparencies don't we? You could ask PW if this is a Go Pro:
Golf Ball Drop for the Langdon Charity by FlyingPigHelicopters | YouTube Channel Embed

[tqmatch]

Provided you are not breaking into any aircraft systems or structure, or making permanent changes, there is no requirement for any STC or issue of a CRS for the work to fit the go-pro or its mount.

I regularly use one both inside the cockpit and externally, I would reccomend a bolt down type clamp for external mounts, similar to the type of clamp used to mount ipad holders to control yokes in the fixed wing world - RAM mounts do some good products.

[chopjock]

tq

Provided you are not breaking into any aircraft systems or structure, or making permanent changes, there is no requirement for any STC or issue of a CRS for the work

That seems pretty logical and straight forward thinking, but would you or anyone else know where it may be legislated?

I would not want to ask the CAA as they will just say "you can't do that" by default.

[Radam559]

Go-Pro

I guess my biggest concern would be if you violated something... Then you have it caught on tape...

[Wageslave]

Originally Posted by chopjock

I would not want to ask the CAA as they will just say "you can't do that" by default.

So the answer when faced with something you anticipate to be illegal is what? Don't try to find out, just go ahead and do it anyway and if caught pretend you "didn't know"?

It won't work!

But why would the CAA say you cant do it if you can?

I'm afraid I don't think attaching things to the outside of aircraft can be done without permission. A go pro is just a camera after all. So is a 16mm Arriflex, do you just "attach" one of those and go flying without proper procedure and hope it doesn't fall off? I don't think so.

Either way, before doing this with a gopro I think it would be extremely unwise not to check with the CAA first, especially if you're creating evidence of the act by filming. Your insurance company would undoubtably have something to say about it too.

[chopjock]

Wageslave

I'm afraid I don't think attaching things to the outside of aircraft can be done without permission.

tqmatch

Provided you are not breaking into any aircraft systems or structure, or making permanent changes, there is no requirement for any STC or issue of a CRS for the work

So which is it? what do the regs say?

Apparently it's perfectly ok to remove a door and have a cameraman hang his feet out with a camera on his lap though.

[NutLoose]

I can't remember off hand, but I remember fitting a gps clamp to a control wheel and powering it from the fused ( and that is important ) cigarette lighter plug, this was pre EASA, but the requirement at the time was it was ok as long as it was a temporary and removable fit and not permanent. But that was internal, see link in next thread

[NutLoose]

I realize this is the NZ CAA but as they all roughly follow the EASA system this will be a good basis to go from

http://www.caa.govt.nz/Publications/...tor_2014-4.pdf


http://www.australianflying.com.au/n...-camera-ruling

[FLY 7]

Yes, that kind of sums it up.

I've flown helicopters with external side baskets with bags secured with elastic cords.

The Go-pro is tiny. There really is no issue with weight, aerodynamics or security in the proposed location.

The concern is the legality, and I'm assuming it's something that requires 'approval'. But, before asking the CAA, I just wondered if anyone has had any previous experience - fixed wing or helicopter?

[n5296s]

Good article here about the FAA view:

Camera Mount Common Sense - AVweb Insider Article

Main point:

"Basically, the memo says camera mounts aren't major alterations since they don't appreciably change flight characteristics, performance, weight and balance or basic airworthiness. They also don't represent changes to the aircraft's basic type certification, so no STC is necessary."

It goes on to say that if you get it wrong and something bad happens, the FAA can always use 91.13 (careless and reckless operation) anyway.

The absolutist view that ANY external temporary modification requires approval doesn't really pass the common sense test. What about the vinyl 12" numbers I used to make my plane legal to visit Mexico? What about a sticker from a sponsor?

[Stitchbitch]

If you fly in a headset this won't apply. You can get go pro mounts to fit the NVG bracket on most helmets, although the PoV will be above eye level. Hope this is helpful.