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Airbus H160 helicopter

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Airbus H160 helicopter

Old 15th Jun 2023, 14:29
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Gendamarie H160

First one of ten for the Gendamarie Nationale

https://fb.watch/laSogbQorc/

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Old 30th Jun 2023, 14:08
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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FAA Certification

Airbus H160 granted FAA certification

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/p...-certification

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Old 6th Jul 2023, 16:17
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These notes copied from the FAA type certificate data sheet have me questioning if the aircraft is FAA certified or not. Maybe some of you regulation experts can give opinions.

Manufacturer’s eligible serial numbers: S/N 1002.

Note 10.
Expiration of Exemption No. 18717:
The H160-B Certification Basis includes Exemption No. 18717, which expires on June 30, 2023. After this date the H160-B type design approved under TC R00009RD, as defined by Airbus Helicopters Report no. U000A1313E01_TDD_DDD, H160-B Type Design Definition for USA (FAA), revision B, dated June 29, 2023, will no longer comply with the certification basis, and the type design will no longer be FAA approved.

Note 11.
Certificate of Airworthiness:
The H160-B is not eligible for a Certificate of Airworthiness.
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Old 6th Jul 2023, 19:56
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Originally Posted by S92mech
These notes copied from the FAA type certificate data sheet have me questioning if the aircraft is FAA certified or not. Maybe some of you regulation experts can give opinions.

Manufacturer’s eligible serial numbers: S/N 1002.

Note 10.
Expiration of Exemption No. 18717:
The H160-B Certification Basis includes Exemption No. 18717, which expires on June 30, 2023. After this date the H160-B type design approved under TC R00009RD, as defined by Airbus Helicopters Report no. U000A1313E01_TDD_DDD, H160-B Type Design Definition for USA (FAA), revision B, dated June 29, 2023, will no longer comply with the certification basis, and the type design will no longer be FAA approved.
...
Type Certificate TC R00009RD linked here
Exemption No. 18717 linked here

Regarding note 10, it mentions earlier in the TCDS that the exemption is "(Exemption from § 29.735(c)(2) of Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations)" which requires a helicopter with wheel-type landing gear to have brakes that are able to hold the rotorcraft parked on a 10 degree slope. The TCDS mentions that rotorcraft S/N 1002 fitted with electric wheel brakes is subject to a 5 degree slope limit for landing on parking subject to exemption No. 18717.

Airbus Helicopters applied for an exemption on 1st April 2020 for three helicopters as the electric brakes did not meet this 10 degree requirement. The exemption was granted 23rd February 2021, with an expiry date of 30th June 2023 set. The FAA decision is quoted here below:
The FAA’s analysis is as follows:
While FAA Order 8900.1 explains that exemptions are normally valid for two years, the FAA disagrees this prohibits the FAA from granting exemptions for a longer time period. The FAA finds an exemption expiration date of June 30, 2023, is reasonable considering the amount of time the petitioner needs for design, test, and helicopter modification. The FAA does agree that the exemption should specify the serial numbers of the aircraft for which it applies. Condition 2 of this exemption requires the petitioner to provide the FAA with the serial numbers of the three affected Model H160 helicopters prior to operating under the conditions of this exemption.

The second commenter is correct that § 29.735(c)(2), which requires the braking device to hold a rotorcraft parked on a 10-degree slope on a dry, smooth pavement, was promulgated in 1964. The Model H160 helicopter uses an electrical braking system instead of a traditional hydraulic activation system. The petitioner intended the electrical breaking system to fully comply with § 29.735, but fell short of this requirement. The FAA finds that granting this time-limited exemption, for three helicopters only, would not adversely affect safety in the 3 interim while the petitioner brings the braking system for all Model H160 helicopters into regulatory compliance. The three Model H160 helicopters covered by this exemption must comply with § 29.735(c)(2) by the date this exemption expires. All other U.S. registered Model H160 helicopters must comply with § 29.735(c)(2) prior to being issued a type certificate. Additionally, condition 1(a) ensures that there is no adverse impact on safety in areas with unpaved or unimproved surfaces by limiting landing and parking under this exemption to paved surfaces.

Section 29.735(c)(2) only applies to parking of the helicopter. Thus, an analysis of the impact of the EBS on dynamic maneuvers that may require the use of brakes, as requested by the third commenter, would not be relevant to this exemption petition.

The FAA finds that granting a time-limited exemption on these three helicopters is in the public interest because these Model H160 helicopters will replace Sikorsky S-76 helicopters that were type certificated as long ago as 1965. These older helicopters lack many safety features now required by 14 CFR part 29. The Model H160 will provide a 300 or greater percent increase in survivable g-forces in the event of an emergency landing (survivable crash). These Model H160 helicopters are also designed with fuel tanks that can survive these higher sustainable crash loads without leaking fuel and starting a fire. The helicopters being replaced do not have these features.
So my understanding is that Airbus Helicopters asked for an exemption to get three helicopters flying and operational, with an arbitrary future expiry for this exemption. The certification took longer than expected, and the redesign of the braking system was not fitted to the aircraft undergoing certification or has not yet been finalised, so the aircraft was certified subject to the exemption which has now expired. So the type has FAA certification, but the wheel brakes need a redesign before a revised TCDS is issued. Just my interpretation - happy to be corrected.

Last edited by ApolloHeli; 6th Jul 2023 at 20:14. Reason: Included exemption no 18717 wording
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Old 6th Jul 2023, 19:59
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Originally Posted by S92mech
These notes copied from the FAA type certificate data sheet have me questioning if the aircraft is FAA certified or not. Maybe some of you regulation experts can give opinions.

Manufacturer’s eligible serial numbers: S/N 1002.

Note 10.
Expiration of Exemption No. 18717:
The H160-B Certification Basis includes Exemption No. 18717, which expires on June 30, 2023. After this date the H160-B type design approved under TC R00009RD, as defined by Airbus Helicopters Report no. U000A1313E01_TDD_DDD, H160-B Type Design Definition for USA (FAA), revision B, dated June 29, 2023, will no longer comply with the certification basis, and the type design will no longer be FAA approved.

Note 11.
Certificate of Airworthiness:
The H160-B is not eligible for a Certificate of Airworthiness.
will be very interested to hear any responses- doesn’t look very positive for AH (or the launch US customer client/operator!)
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Old 6th Jul 2023, 20:52
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Originally Posted by S92mech
These notes copied from the FAA type certificate data sheet have me questioning if the aircraft is FAA certified or not. Maybe some of you regulation experts can give opinions.

Manufacturer’s eligible serial numbers: S/N 1002.

Note 10.
Expiration of Exemption No. 18717:
The H160-B Certification Basis includes Exemption No. 18717, which expires on June 30, 2023. After this date the H160-B type design approved under TC R00009RD, as defined by Airbus Helicopters Report no. U000A1313E01_TDD_DDD, H160-B Type Design Definition for USA (FAA), revision B, dated June 29, 2023, will no longer comply with the certification basis, and the type design will no longer be FAA approved.

Note 11.
Certificate of Airworthiness:
The H160-B is not eligible for a Certificate of Airworthiness.
All in the public domain -

Operating Limitations. VFR day and night in non-icing conditions. IFR operations are prohibited. Flight in falling and blowing snow without inlet barrier filter installed is prohibited. Aircraft S/N 1002 with electric brakes, is subject to the limitations identified in FAA Exemption No. 18717: a. Landing and parking is limited to paved surfaces with no more than a 5-degree slope. b. The helicopter must have its wheels chocked upon parking.

FAA CFR Part 29.735 For rotorcraft with wheel-type landing gear, a braking device must be installed that is—

(a) Controllable by the pilot;

(b) Usable during power-off landings; and

(c) Adequate to—

(1) Counteract any normal unbalanced torque when starting or stopping the rotor; and

(2) Hold the rotorcraft parked on a 10-degree slope on a dry, smooth pavement.

EASA under CS29 issued a deviation as follows:

IDENTIFICATION OF ISSUE: The Brakes and Braking Control System claimed by Airbus Helicopters (AH) for the type certification of the H160 helicopter are electrically powered. Flight Testing showed that this electric brake system (EBS) is not able to hold the rotorcraft parked on a 10 degree slope. This represents a non-compliance to CS 29.735, specifically to sub-paragraph (c)(2)

AH has initiated the development of a modified hydraulically-actuated brake system intended to be designed in full compliance with the CS 29.735 (c) (2) requirement. This new system will be retrofitted to all aircraft delivered with EBS, however, will not be available before the EASA TC is issued. Therefore, this Deviation is issued to identify the mitigating factors to be put in place to ensure that the type is compliant with the essential requirements for airworthiness in Annex II of the regulation (EU) 2018/1139.

EASA has determined the following mitigating factors for the acceptance of the identified Deviation to CS 735 (c) (2): An operating limitation is established in the Rotorcraft Flight Manual (RFM) to limit landing and parking of the helicopter to a 5 degree (5°) slope. This RFM limitation is justified based on the results obtained from: dedicated flight test program, qualification bench test campaign, and technical analysis and safety assessment. This RFM limitation is considered adequately safe as: 5° slope angle is fully compatible with H160 operational use, 5° slope angle has been evaluated as an angle easily identifiable on H160 cockpit attitude indicator, and A slope landing angle limitation is typical operating information provided in RFMs. There is no adverse impact on compliance with CS 29.53(a), CS 29.79(b), CS 29.231, CS 29.735 (a), (b), (c) (1), CS 29.1301 and CS 29.1309. A very limited number of H160 helicopters will be manufactured and delivered with the EBS. A brand new braking system, with conventional hydraulic architecture and technology, fully compliant with CS 29.735 (c) (2) will be developed and EASA certified by mid 2021. All in-service helicopters equipped with EBS will be retrofitted with this hydraulic braking system in accordance with a Retrofit Plan under the supervision of EASA.

Of note the FAA TCDS is only applicable to SN 1002 which is probably a transitional frame somewhere between pre-production and a full production aircraft used for FAA testing / certification and does not have the hydraulic brakes?. Apparently an exemption was applied for with the FAA back in 2020 for the first 3 US aircraft but maybe they have a supply or technical issue? Who knows as the wheels grind slowly sometimes.

As a side note the AW109 will roll away after the brake accumulator goes flat when parked but that is a Part 27 machine and nobody took the time to look! Same conditions apply.

I was lucky enough to get a tour of the 160 production facility and also fly with Olivier Gensse (AH ETP) from Marignane to Monaco back in 2019. Lot's of cool stuff in this aircraft!


Last edited by RVDT; 6th Jul 2023 at 21:03.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 20:32
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https://helihub.com/2023/07/11/jcb-c...-airbus-h160s/

Any information on this cancellation? It will be interesting to see what they will be replaced by...

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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 00:41
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Originally Posted by Tatischeff
https://helihub.com/2023/07/11/jcb-c...-airbus-h160s/

Any information on this cancellation? It will be interesting to see what they will be replaced by...
Former colleague, very well informed about said party's decision to abort the type, suggests reliability issues and that the owners hated it. Nothing further as to possible substitute(s).
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 03:41
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Another S-76C++ would make sense, but time will tell.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 10:29
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Originally Posted by JokersWildMk.2
Former colleague, very well informed about said party's decision to abort the type, suggests reliability issues and that the owners hated it. Nothing further as to possible substitute(s).
Strange if so, they never flew with the type... in any case, the first one delivered to the UK seems not to be idle
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 13:34
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Originally Posted by Tatischeff
Strange if so, they never flew with the type... in any case, the first one delivered to the UK seems not to be idle
Agreed. Still, does make one wonder why the sudden exit from the type so quickly.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 17:34
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Heard the JCB issue was in the VIP fit selected it couldn’t actually fly the number of VIPs as it would be out of limits W&B wise….
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 20:00
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Originally Posted by Pittsextra
Heard the JCB issue was in the VIP fit selected it couldn’t actually fly the number of VIPs as it would be out of limits W&B wise….
I hope customers do these kind of calculations without waiting to have 2 finished machines ready to be delivered
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 20:20
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Tat
I am sure the customer did the calculations using the data they were given. This would happen much less if the manufacturer was truthful on weights and performance penalty of all the kits and customizing. Bottom line the manufacturer deceived the customer and is now stuck with two white tails.
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 06:23
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Originally Posted by Tatischeff
I hope customers do these kind of calculations without waiting to have 2 finished machines ready to be delivered
I suppose it depends on the culture of customer service at Airbus?

You might have thought this would be a great opportunity with a new customer with what is very clearly both a marginal and discretionary purchase.

What is the purpose of ACH if it isn’t to assist with the spec?? Initially one job is to hold the hand through the spec and they essentially screwed the pooch….

The only alternative is the customer demanded / stamped feet with Airbus then knowingly building aircraft that were not able to be usefully flown. Aside from the obvious safety point - if there was no paperwork to insist on the transaction completing it suggests Airbus were as oblivious. Clownery either way?
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Old 24th Aug 2023, 09:51
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it reminds me airbus vs quatar airways that was complaining about the paint on the A350January 2022, the airline said “these defects are not superficial and one of the defects causes the aircraft’s lightning protection system to be exposed and damaged”.
Airbus said the surface degradations were “non-structural” and had “no airworthiness impact on the A350 fleet”.and was threatening to cancel the order.

Seen Airbus playing hard ball with the customer more these days, maybe just because they can. I think these H160 will be sold anyways
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Old 24th Aug 2023, 19:55
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I would guess that at this point in the game current interior options are a MOD and not an STC item which would be more "standardised".

Airbus the parent don't normally design or make VIP interiors. It's either a MOD or STC from someone else marketed by ACH.

VIP interiors are a "minefield" and the parent is wise to stay away from it. i.e. Show me 2 Boeing BBJ's that are even close.

I visited Marignane back in 2018 and was given a tour of the production facilities and it was pointed out that the number of "options" on the basic aircraft were to be minimised and it was "all inclusive".

VIP structural options apart from the interior would only be hinged doors versus sliding.

Years ago we went to "Mc Alpine" to spec out an EC135 and sat down with the "gizmo's and trinkets" department and they didn't seem too aware about "weight issues" and had to rein them in.

They don't "mention" that part as they are more interested in the sale and it is easy to end up with a "lead balloon". Gravity is about the only constant here.

In the case of the H160 you could easily fill it up with that much junk that all the development in technology for performance ends up moot.

There are also "cultural" aspects - take the H145 MB version - some think it's great, some wouldn't be seen dead in it. Lets not get started on the poor techs who need operating theatre conditions in the hangar and a good supply of kid gloves and probably twice the number of man hours to work on it.

With VIP interiors at this level it is hard work and very easy to lose the plot.
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Old 28th Aug 2023, 13:29
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H160 ach is by that italian firm.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 14:11
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Douanes - French Customs

First French Customs - Douanes and it will end up in French West Indies

photos courtesy of Airbus










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Old 10th Oct 2023, 19:55
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I don’t know how to explain it, but I think it looks ugly on the ground but beautiful and graceful in the air. Make of that what you will
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