Helicopter crash near M1
A tiny bit chippy I think Crab !!!! I think most people would prefer to own and fly their own helicopter rather than being the chauffeur!!!
Although I wouldn't ever want to encourage anyone to fly a Robbo and generally think Robbo pilots sometimes seem to lack skill ( and obviously cash ..!)....
IF the engine actually quit , and it may not have done , then I think he did a fair job of getting it down . I certainly wouldn't want to guarantee a better outcome if I had been flying . 2 good results . Everyone safe and one less Robbo !
Although I wouldn't ever want to encourage anyone to fly a Robbo and generally think Robbo pilots sometimes seem to lack skill ( and obviously cash ..!)....
IF the engine actually quit , and it may not have done , then I think he did a fair job of getting it down . I certainly wouldn't want to guarantee a better outcome if I had been flying . 2 good results . Everyone safe and one less Robbo !
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Personal insults, references to flying suits, epaulettes, helmets and ex-mil pilots and with these items at the fore, referring to the well respected 'Vertical Freedom' ... all very similar traits to 'Ye Olde Pilot' for those that remember him/her.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
RP;
Does that include the photo posted at 11:40 today of VF posing next to his steed wearing a flying helmet?
Crab....
Are you suggesting there is a market in the outback for Nomex suits,epaulettes and bone domes?
Take a look at Vertical Freedoms wonderful thread and give me your opinion of his flying attire.
Are you suggesting there is a market in the outback for Nomex suits,epaulettes and bone domes?
Take a look at Vertical Freedoms wonderful thread and give me your opinion of his flying attire.
Nigel, You state:-
Is this how you view a Robbo pilot? A tad unfair dont you think? It takes a fair bit of skill to learn to fly one as it certainly doesnt have the stability of a H300 or B206 etc. So I definitely disagree about lack of skill. As for cash? Not everyone is born with a silver spoon up their ass, or the wherewithall to make loadsamoney in business.
But I do agree that certain robbo pilots shouldnt be in the air. Usually the ones with too much money and not enough sense. Ive actually refused to fly with some ex students and given up instructing them in the past because I knew, given a licence, theyd probably kill themselves and I didnt want to be a part of that.
Although I wouldn't ever want to encourage anyone to fly a Robbo and generally think Robbo pilots sometimes seem to lack skill ( and obviously cash ..!)....
Is this how you view a Robbo pilot? A tad unfair dont you think? It takes a fair bit of skill to learn to fly one as it certainly doesnt have the stability of a H300 or B206 etc. So I definitely disagree about lack of skill. As for cash? Not everyone is born with a silver spoon up their ass, or the wherewithall to make loadsamoney in business.
But I do agree that certain robbo pilots shouldnt be in the air. Usually the ones with too much money and not enough sense. Ive actually refused to fly with some ex students and given up instructing them in the past because I knew, given a licence, theyd probably kill themselves and I didnt want to be a part of that.
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Gemini Twin,
I have only just seen your post, "I was being economical with words," meaning
the skids having penetrated Mother earth then created enough retard to nose over, but yes I am chuckling
I have only just seen your post, "I was being economical with words," meaning
the skids having penetrated Mother earth then created enough retard to nose over, but yes I am chuckling
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thought there'd be more SGC? ....
... as the AAIB is only responsible for the investigation of civil aircraft accidents and serious incidents within the UK and its overseas territories, here's a little bedtime reading for you ...
HeliHub Accidents R22
HeliHub Accidents R44
HeliHub Accidents R66
HeliHub Accidents Robinson
... as the AAIB is only responsible for the investigation of civil aircraft accidents and serious incidents within the UK and its overseas territories, here's a little bedtime reading for you ...
HeliHub Accidents R22
HeliHub Accidents R44
HeliHub Accidents R66
HeliHub Accidents Robinson
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SS
You seem to be on a Robbo targetted mission at the moment.
Those lists look dramatic.
Quite a lot of wires, a lot of 'rushed landings' folled by rollover, generally no injuries, tail in hedge, dynamic rollover etc
I thought this one was rather good:
Landed in a tree. Pilot was able to climb out of the helicopter and down from the tree to phone for help.
Mostly mishandling events, this is why 'handling' is the biggest life saver.
I think if you put this population of pilots in the EC135 you'd see quite alot of 'landing in a tree' events too.
"A total of six were on board four adults and two children under 10 and the helicopter was operating short joyride flights fro..."
Very few mechanical induced events, because these machines are exceptionally reliable. They are also operated with shockingly poor maintenance often. "the crashed helicopter had been rebuild following a fatal crash 2 years before" (Brazil)
Even events like reportedly 'losing power' are often suspect, as in the case of: "the pilot said he opted to turn the helicopter to the right and downslope, while trying to override the engine governor to attain additional engine power. " oh dear
Mostly handling incompetence/misfortune, if training organisations were not busy ticking irrelevant boxes they might focus on how to fly. It's the blind leading the blind.
Saying that even the 'World's Best' helicopter training can go adrift:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._Report_OS.pdf
If the amount of training they did were scaled up to the size of the Robbo operation then we'd have a long list of silly misfortunes in Gazelles too.
How many EC135's (or A109s) are there in UK compared to Robbos?
What are the relative fatal accident rates, (for equivalent trained crews)?
Just sayin'
You seem to be on a Robbo targetted mission at the moment.
Those lists look dramatic.
Quite a lot of wires, a lot of 'rushed landings' folled by rollover, generally no injuries, tail in hedge, dynamic rollover etc
I thought this one was rather good:
Landed in a tree. Pilot was able to climb out of the helicopter and down from the tree to phone for help.
Mostly mishandling events, this is why 'handling' is the biggest life saver.
I think if you put this population of pilots in the EC135 you'd see quite alot of 'landing in a tree' events too.
"A total of six were on board four adults and two children under 10 and the helicopter was operating short joyride flights fro..."
Very few mechanical induced events, because these machines are exceptionally reliable. They are also operated with shockingly poor maintenance often. "the crashed helicopter had been rebuild following a fatal crash 2 years before" (Brazil)
Even events like reportedly 'losing power' are often suspect, as in the case of: "the pilot said he opted to turn the helicopter to the right and downslope, while trying to override the engine governor to attain additional engine power. " oh dear
Mostly handling incompetence/misfortune, if training organisations were not busy ticking irrelevant boxes they might focus on how to fly. It's the blind leading the blind.
Saying that even the 'World's Best' helicopter training can go adrift:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._Report_OS.pdf
If the amount of training they did were scaled up to the size of the Robbo operation then we'd have a long list of silly misfortunes in Gazelles too.
How many EC135's (or A109s) are there in UK compared to Robbos?
What are the relative fatal accident rates, (for equivalent trained crews)?
Just sayin'
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
AnFI;
Far from it, unless I am restrained in the same way as Butch and Marsellus are in Pulp Fiction, I will not be stepping foot in one so I have no personal axe to grind about any Robbo product. All I am doing is 'reporting' incidents that have made the news, and when SGC says that he thought there may be more robbo reports than he had found, I linked to another source that may be useful.
Please quote me where I have made an anti-robbo comment, before simply assuming.
Whereas I have said; "I think overall on PPRuNe, the majority of the comments are aimed at the handling, not the type." ...
... perhaps you'd like to direct your attack on others, such as those that say things such as; " I'm not exMil, with 25 years Civil flying I can tell You that the Crapinson Flimsicopter is a DEATH TRAP & belongs at the local dump, all them every last one of the junk
"
But I guess you'd rather relive the old slanging match against me than comment on others
SS
You seem to be on a Robbo targetted mission at the moment.
Those lists look dramatic.
You seem to be on a Robbo targetted mission at the moment.
Those lists look dramatic.
Please quote me where I have made an anti-robbo comment, before simply assuming.
Whereas I have said; "I think overall on PPRuNe, the majority of the comments are aimed at the handling, not the type." ...
... perhaps you'd like to direct your attack on others, such as those that say things such as; " I'm not exMil, with 25 years Civil flying I can tell You that the Crapinson Flimsicopter is a DEATH TRAP & belongs at the local dump, all them every last one of the junk
"But I guess you'd rather relive the old slanging match against me than comment on others
Just purely out of interest, and certainly with no axe to grind, if you don't mind telling me, what was your background? Army? Gazelle? I'm just wondering. Also, whatever background you have, one question, were there any accidents on the type you were trained on due to handling skill inadequacies?
I just feel that the training side of things has gone downhill and there is less experience in the air nowadays. A lot of self improvers, allowed to instruct at minimum hours. (yes I am guilty of it, having been an instructor on R22's with a grand total of about 250hrs)
Is it the system at fault, the ability of the pilots, or the helicopters themselves? I know the military are very fussy about who they use as pilots, because they want people who can do the job. In the Civilian world, if you have enough money to throw at it you can be a pilot too. Doesn't mean you can fly for sh*t though.
I just feel that the training side of things has gone downhill and there is less experience in the air nowadays. A lot of self improvers, allowed to instruct at minimum hours. (yes I am guilty of it, having been an instructor on R22's with a grand total of about 250hrs)
Is it the system at fault, the ability of the pilots, or the helicopters themselves? I know the military are very fussy about who they use as pilots, because they want people who can do the job. In the Civilian world, if you have enough money to throw at it you can be a pilot too. Doesn't mean you can fly for sh*t though.
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Silso
You come across as an arrogant know it all who has never had an incident in all your state funded flying.
Often found in non commissioned ex army wallahs.
Do I also detect a tinge of jealousy aimed at those successful enough to self fly their own machine instead of driving for a pay cheque every month.
I am not Doctor Who but it appears it appears I have now been challenged as being three other posters of whom I have no knowledge.
Perhaps you an other critics of this successful auto can give some advice as to how you could have improved on the outcome?
I have given my description of the possible scenario where the skids dug in.
I am not going to stoop so low as to start citing police accidents.
Have you in fact got any hours on a R22?
To the others who are having a go at civvy pilots and the R22 its interesting to see a common thread of being paid commercial often ex mil and with plenty of crew-room time to spend here waiting for the next shout.
You come across as an arrogant know it all who has never had an incident in all your state funded flying.
Often found in non commissioned ex army wallahs.
Do I also detect a tinge of jealousy aimed at those successful enough to self fly their own machine instead of driving for a pay cheque every month.
I am not Doctor Who but it appears it appears I have now been challenged as being three other posters of whom I have no knowledge.
Perhaps you an other critics of this successful auto can give some advice as to how you could have improved on the outcome?
I have given my description of the possible scenario where the skids dug in.
I am not going to stoop so low as to start citing police accidents.
Have you in fact got any hours on a R22?
To the others who are having a go at civvy pilots and the R22 its interesting to see a common thread of being paid commercial often ex mil and with plenty of crew-room time to spend here waiting for the next shout.
Last edited by Romeopapa; 3rd Mar 2015 at 09:23.
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RP,
I notice that in your recent exchange with VF, you didn't get around to asking him just why he holds Mr Robbo's products in such poor regard.
He is, after all, an ex heli-mustering pilot.
I notice that in your recent exchange with VF, you didn't get around to asking him just why he holds Mr Robbo's products in such poor regard.
He is, after all, an ex heli-mustering pilot.
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I believe he was lucky enough to fly the 47 which apart from speed and cost of fuel is a wonderful piece of kit.
The Robbo,would not be much use in Nepal!
The ex military guys here appear to frown on anything flown by a civilian and without a turbine.
This is a discussion about a successful autorotation of an R44 by an experienced
private pilot.
No input regarding the accident from the experts
As for Dick Smith..he did a good job and I admire he efforts in the past and now.
The Robbo,would not be much use in Nepal!
The ex military guys here appear to frown on anything flown by a civilian and without a turbine.
This is a discussion about a successful autorotation of an R44 by an experienced
private pilot.
No input regarding the accident from the experts
As for Dick Smith..he did a good job and I admire he efforts in the past and now.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
RP;
You sound oh so similar to someone else that used to post here 
If I may repeat my last post to you;
"Hmmm, I defend ex-mil pilots against chip on shoulder-ers such as yourself, I comment that the pilot might have 'a past' to be wary of when making comment (and mention the boathouse door colour, that's the clue!), inform someone of a safety alert, comment on how I need a shoehorn to get into a Robbo, remind people of 'the boathouse related hat' and my last post makes the point that most of the comments made here are about handling and not specifically the type ... not once have I criticised the pilot ... // ... yet you feel warranted to give me your tirade of a post ....
Since then; I have replied to your post when you tell us that in support of your anti flying helmet agenda, you say we should look at VP's thread ... I point out that VF's latest photo shows him wearing a helmet I then post some links in order to help SGC locate some incident reports and finally I make it clear that I have no axe to grind against Robinson products.
It's clear that I have not critisised the pilot and it's clear that I have no axe to grind about Robinsons, so please ... Why do you insist in this tirade of abuse aimed at me?
You seem to be very anti ex-mil pilots, especially non-commisioned types. Might that be because you are an aviator yourself and find it hard to come to terms that your offspring, despite passing through Cranwell and Dartmouth, failed to follow you into the aviation world, while all us oiks have had the privilege of being able to do so? Just a thought.
Silso
You come across as an arrogant know it all who has never had an incident in all your state funded flying.
Often found in non commissioned ex army wallahs.
Do I also detect a tinge of jealousy aimed at those successful enough to self fly their own machine instead of driving for a pay cheque every month.
I am not Doctor Who but it appears it appears I have now been challenged as being three other posters of whom I have no knowledge.
Perhaps you an other critics of this successful auto can give some advice as to how you could have improved on the outcome?
I have given my description of the possible scenario where the skids dug in.
I am not going to stoop so low as to start citing police accidents.
Have you in fact got any hours on a R22?
To the others who are having a go at civvy pilots and the R22 its interesting to see a common thread of being paid commercial often ex mil and with plenty of crew-room time to spend here waiting for the next shout.
You come across as an arrogant know it all who has never had an incident in all your state funded flying.
Often found in non commissioned ex army wallahs.
Do I also detect a tinge of jealousy aimed at those successful enough to self fly their own machine instead of driving for a pay cheque every month.
I am not Doctor Who but it appears it appears I have now been challenged as being three other posters of whom I have no knowledge.
Perhaps you an other critics of this successful auto can give some advice as to how you could have improved on the outcome?
I have given my description of the possible scenario where the skids dug in.
I am not going to stoop so low as to start citing police accidents.
Have you in fact got any hours on a R22?
To the others who are having a go at civvy pilots and the R22 its interesting to see a common thread of being paid commercial often ex mil and with plenty of crew-room time to spend here waiting for the next shout.
If I may repeat my last post to you;
"Hmmm, I defend ex-mil pilots against chip on shoulder-ers such as yourself, I comment that the pilot might have 'a past' to be wary of when making comment (and mention the boathouse door colour, that's the clue!), inform someone of a safety alert, comment on how I need a shoehorn to get into a Robbo, remind people of 'the boathouse related hat' and my last post makes the point that most of the comments made here are about handling and not specifically the type ... not once have I criticised the pilot ... // ... yet you feel warranted to give me your tirade of a post ....
Since then; I have replied to your post when you tell us that in support of your anti flying helmet agenda, you say we should look at VP's thread ... I point out that VF's latest photo shows him wearing a helmet
I then post some links in order to help SGC locate some incident reports and finally I make it clear that I have no axe to grind against Robinson products.It's clear that I have not critisised the pilot and it's clear that I have no axe to grind about Robinsons, so please ... Why do you insist in this tirade of abuse aimed at me?
You seem to be very anti ex-mil pilots, especially non-commisioned types. Might that be because you are an aviator yourself and find it hard to come to terms that your offspring, despite passing through Cranwell and Dartmouth, failed to follow you into the aviation world, while all us oiks have had the privilege of being able to do so? Just a thought.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
In response to RP's tirade;
"You come across as an arrogant know it all who has never had an incident in all your state funded flying."
Funny you should mention arrogance, that was something Ye Olde Pilot used to call me. Back then, as now, I refer you to Viper's reply in Top Gun.
Incidents, you wouldn't know the start of it!
"Often found in non commissioned ex army wallahs."
Wow, there certainly is a chip there!
"Do I also detect a tinge of jealousy aimed at those successful enough to self fly their own machine instead of driving for a pay cheque every month".
If I had the money, the last thing I would do is have my own aircraft.
By the way, does that also include the pilots that fly you to your holiday destination, or those that will be there to whisk your family members to hospital in their moments of need?
Of all the 'successful' people out there, I wonder just how many actually do self fly their own!
"I am not Doctor Who but it appears it appears I have now been challenged as being three other posters of whom I have no knowledge."
I have only said that you remind me of Ye Olde Pilot as you carry the same traits as he/she did.
"Perhaps you an other critics of this successful auto can give some advice as to how you could have improved on the outcome?"
As I have already pointed out, I haven't at any time critisised the pilot.
"I have given my description of the possible scenario where the skids dug in."
Well done.
"I am not going to stoop so low as to start citing police accidents."
I think youre already low enough!
"Have you in fact got any hours on a R22?"
Too many!
"To the others who are having a go at civvy pilots and the R22 its interesting to see a common thread of being paid commercial often ex mil and with plenty of crew-room time to spend here waiting for the next shout."
We do get time off for good behaviour you know!
atb
SS
Funny you should mention arrogance, that was something Ye Olde Pilot used to call me. Back then, as now, I refer you to Viper's reply in Top Gun.
Incidents, you wouldn't know the start of it!
"Often found in non commissioned ex army wallahs."
Wow, there certainly is a chip there!
"Do I also detect a tinge of jealousy aimed at those successful enough to self fly their own machine instead of driving for a pay cheque every month".
If I had the money, the last thing I would do is have my own aircraft.
By the way, does that also include the pilots that fly you to your holiday destination, or those that will be there to whisk your family members to hospital in their moments of need?
Of all the 'successful' people out there, I wonder just how many actually do self fly their own!
"I am not Doctor Who but it appears it appears I have now been challenged as being three other posters of whom I have no knowledge."
I have only said that you remind me of Ye Olde Pilot as you carry the same traits as he/she did.
"Perhaps you an other critics of this successful auto can give some advice as to how you could have improved on the outcome?"
As I have already pointed out, I haven't at any time critisised the pilot.
"I have given my description of the possible scenario where the skids dug in."
Well done.
"I am not going to stoop so low as to start citing police accidents."
I think youre already low enough!
"Have you in fact got any hours on a R22?"
Too many!
"To the others who are having a go at civvy pilots and the R22 its interesting to see a common thread of being paid commercial often ex mil and with plenty of crew-room time to spend here waiting for the next shout."
We do get time off for good behaviour you know!
atb
SS