Advice on buying a helicopter please......
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 171
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From: Caribbean
Enstrom. Absolutely no question.
Three seats. Baggage compartment. Same operating costs. Built like a brick out house. Spares available. Smooth to fly.
You need to look at the economics. It's only over about 200 hrs a year that a personal machine becomes cheaper than renting. Granted you have the benefit of availability but it can end up costing big style.
Three seats. Baggage compartment. Same operating costs. Built like a brick out house. Spares available. Smooth to fly.
You need to look at the economics. It's only over about 200 hrs a year that a personal machine becomes cheaper than renting. Granted you have the benefit of availability but it can end up costing big style.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Galveston, Texas USA
Agree 100%
You will not be dissatisfied with an enstrom.
Great machine, built like a $#!TBrickhouse (esp compared to flimsy robby).
Good used machines well under 100K; very low maintenance if you take care of it (still compared to others).
most parts now conditional, incl. the belt.
check out Enstrom homepage (sorry dont have link here)
good luck!
You will not be dissatisfied with an enstrom.
Great machine, built like a $#!TBrickhouse (esp compared to flimsy robby).
Good used machines well under 100K; very low maintenance if you take care of it (still compared to others).
most parts now conditional, incl. the belt.
check out Enstrom homepage (sorry dont have link here)
good luck!
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 166
Likes: 7
From: states
If you are going to look at enstroms, here is a proposed AD you may want to evaluate during the inspection of the aircraft....
http://av-info.faa.gov/ad/NPRM/01SW27.html
http://av-info.faa.gov/ad/NPRM/01SW27.html
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: UK
Putting the Robinson V's Enstrom discussion aside...there is an official sales and dealer network for Robsinson in the UK. This is not the case for Enstrom as far as I'm aware.
I believe that somewhere in the past negotiations bewteen Entsrom and potential UK distributors fell through.
To buy a new Aircraft I'm guessing that you have to deal with Enstrom directly or a supplier in the US !?!
I believe that somewhere in the past negotiations bewteen Entsrom and potential UK distributors fell through.
To buy a new Aircraft I'm guessing that you have to deal with Enstrom directly or a supplier in the US !?!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
From: Caribbean
The popularity of the R22 has always puzzled me. I can only conclude that Robinson’s sales and marketing efforts won the day over Enstrom’s and others. The R22 is so cramped and flimsy, whereas the Enstrom has room to spare. I’ve looked in detail at the operating costs of both and they are within pounds of each other.
With regards to the UK, Southernair at Shoreham used to be an Enstrom distributor but I believe they are no more. Manchester Helicopter Centre at Barton is an Enstrom Authorised agent so can deal directly with the factory for you. With regard to the rest of the world I’m not too sure. Maybe this support and dealer network is another area where Enstrom have let themselves down.
Don’t disregard Schweizer, another good machine to look at. Although to me the looks just don’t do it justice.
The Bell 47 to me is a great machine apart from vibration and cruise speed. It’s strong and roomy. It’s just that had it’s time. Spares availability, maintenance, AD’s all makes them time (and money) consuming machines to own and operate.
With regards to the UK, Southernair at Shoreham used to be an Enstrom distributor but I believe they are no more. Manchester Helicopter Centre at Barton is an Enstrom Authorised agent so can deal directly with the factory for you. With regard to the rest of the world I’m not too sure. Maybe this support and dealer network is another area where Enstrom have let themselves down.
Don’t disregard Schweizer, another good machine to look at. Although to me the looks just don’t do it justice.
The Bell 47 to me is a great machine apart from vibration and cruise speed. It’s strong and roomy. It’s just that had it’s time. Spares availability, maintenance, AD’s all makes them time (and money) consuming machines to own and operate.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Sydney - Australia
Well my thought for what its worth would be get R22.
Cheap easy to fly and good after sales back up and spares.
The enstrom is also know as the widow maker !!! poor tail rotor authority and has killed many a private pilot.
They also suffer from settling with power to a large degree, i used to be a helicopter test pilot these days i hold instructor rating but fly corporate BK117.
World wide sales of the R22 helicopter must tell you some thing and its not marketing hype, the R22 is great machine !! Why do so many schools use them ?? i used to muster cattle in out back Aussie with the R22 a great machine.
Cheap easy to fly and good after sales back up and spares.
The enstrom is also know as the widow maker !!! poor tail rotor authority and has killed many a private pilot.
They also suffer from settling with power to a large degree, i used to be a helicopter test pilot these days i hold instructor rating but fly corporate BK117.
World wide sales of the R22 helicopter must tell you some thing and its not marketing hype, the R22 is great machine !! Why do so many schools use them ?? i used to muster cattle in out back Aussie with the R22 a great machine.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Sydney - Australia
Far que,
i agree that the Bell47 is a great machine, but lets face it B47 stands for the year they were designed.
Parts are becoming very hard to come by and also expensive as they dry up.
i also have flown the B47.
The point i was making is if some one is looking to buy a personal machine, you can't go far wrong with robbie.
As far as me having been a test pilot! well thats for me to know - sorry - that would be telling....
i agree that the Bell47 is a great machine, but lets face it B47 stands for the year they were designed.
Parts are becoming very hard to come by and also expensive as they dry up.
i also have flown the B47.
The point i was making is if some one is looking to buy a personal machine, you can't go far wrong with robbie.
As far as me having been a test pilot! well thats for me to know - sorry - that would be telling....
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: UK (Wilts)
It all depends on whether by small you really mean cheap or actually small!
If you want a really sweet small helicopter the Gazelle is beautiful (and in my opinion preferable to an R22, Enstrom or B47) but not cheap to run, Gas turbines are expensive. You can still pick them up ex-mil.
Please bear in mind that when it comes to helicopters cheap is not a good thing.
If you want a really sweet small helicopter the Gazelle is beautiful (and in my opinion preferable to an R22, Enstrom or B47) but not cheap to run, Gas turbines are expensive. You can still pick them up ex-mil.
Please bear in mind that when it comes to helicopters cheap is not a good thing.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Helicopterman,
Yes, it would be telling.....
wouldn't it.
The number of helicopter test pilot jobs in Australia over the last twenty years number less than 10,ouside the military.
You say you have a mustering background.
Where did the "test pilot" quals come from????
Cheers
Yes, it would be telling.....
wouldn't it.
The number of helicopter test pilot jobs in Australia over the last twenty years number less than 10,ouside the military.
You say you have a mustering background.
Where did the "test pilot" quals come from????
Cheers
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Sydney - Australia
Far Cue,
I sense doubt in your tone! ??
I have no need to prove my Qualifications to you! who ever you maybe, but to put your mind at ease i will tell you i spent a number of years working in the states and Canada, i also spent several years in the Royal Navy, you seem so quick to assume that all my career has been in Australia !! you know what that say you should never assume !!
And as for my mustering exp, I did work for 1 year as a mustering pilot..
So whats your point?? I guess you are one on the many Pilots in the industry who has a problem with Jelousy.
I sense doubt in your tone! ??
I have no need to prove my Qualifications to you! who ever you maybe, but to put your mind at ease i will tell you i spent a number of years working in the states and Canada, i also spent several years in the Royal Navy, you seem so quick to assume that all my career has been in Australia !! you know what that say you should never assume !!
And as for my mustering exp, I did work for 1 year as a mustering pilot..
So whats your point?? I guess you are one on the many Pilots in the industry who has a problem with Jelousy.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Sydney - Australia
Turbine and FarCue.
you both really need to start reading what it is people write here.
At no time do i recall saying i was a corporate Pilot here in Sydney!!
I actually work overseas and i am presently in Sydney on Leave, Sydney is were my family are and is my home town as such.
Believe it or not people do that sort of thing,, i guess you have never been outside of your comfort zone ha ha ha ha
and seen that there is a whole wide world of aviation outside of Australia and the moneys 10 times beter.
you both really need to start reading what it is people write here.
At no time do i recall saying i was a corporate Pilot here in Sydney!!
I actually work overseas and i am presently in Sydney on Leave, Sydney is were my family are and is my home town as such.
Believe it or not people do that sort of thing,, i guess you have never been outside of your comfort zone ha ha ha ha
and seen that there is a whole wide world of aviation outside of Australia and the moneys 10 times beter.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Helicopterman,
Thanks for your honesty. Believe me, I am only trying to weed out the "Walter Mitty's" who seem to gravitate to this and other sites at Pprune.
I do believe you and welcome to Oz.
Just so happens this particular subject is dear to my heart, and I think people who ask genuine questions deserve to hear answers from genuine people, so, no offence really meant in the first instance.
Cheers
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: far cue ]
Thanks for your honesty. Believe me, I am only trying to weed out the "Walter Mitty's" who seem to gravitate to this and other sites at Pprune.
I do believe you and welcome to Oz.
Just so happens this particular subject is dear to my heart, and I think people who ask genuine questions deserve to hear answers from genuine people, so, no offence really meant in the first instance.
Cheers
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: far cue ]
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 3
From: Escrick York england
just a few points about enstroms
the uk distributor is eastern atlantic in shoreham
the enstrom helicopter has never had a fatal accident in the uk before you say it there are lots of enstroms in the uk
i personaly would trust my life to a enstrom before a robbo
the previous note about enstroms being widow makers is rubbish robbos kill more
the bell 47 is also ok.
the uk distributor is eastern atlantic in shoreham
the enstrom helicopter has never had a fatal accident in the uk before you say it there are lots of enstroms in the uk
i personaly would trust my life to a enstrom before a robbo
the previous note about enstroms being widow makers is rubbish robbos kill more
the bell 47 is also ok.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Sydney - Australia
MD600 Driver.
Sorry buddy i beg to differ there, I might suggest you look up the world wide accident statistics for Fatal helicopter Crashes, you will find the Enstrom right up there Buddy.
Your obviously know very little about light Helicopters and there performance characteristics!! the Piston Enstrom does suffer from loss off tail Rotor Authority and this has been the main cause of many a death in particular with low hour inexperianced pilots.
The Robinson R22 on the other hand was designed by Frank Robinson who is infact a Tail Rotor Expert from Hughes before he designed his own machine.
Generally speaking its the Low hour pilot /private pilot who tends to get themselves into trouble.
with 98% of accidents attributed to pilot error.
Do your home work!!!
Sorry buddy i beg to differ there, I might suggest you look up the world wide accident statistics for Fatal helicopter Crashes, you will find the Enstrom right up there Buddy.
Your obviously know very little about light Helicopters and there performance characteristics!! the Piston Enstrom does suffer from loss off tail Rotor Authority and this has been the main cause of many a death in particular with low hour inexperianced pilots.
The Robinson R22 on the other hand was designed by Frank Robinson who is infact a Tail Rotor Expert from Hughes before he designed his own machine.
Generally speaking its the Low hour pilot /private pilot who tends to get themselves into trouble.
with 98% of accidents attributed to pilot error.
Do your home work!!!