AAIB Report A109E accident at Vauxhall, and Inquest Verdict
Avoid imitations
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SAS, that's correct.
There's no authorisation oversight, no ops staff, so no-one to book your airfield slot clearances or find suitable off airport landing sites (and gain the CAA permssions where needed), arrange aircraft hangarage, your overnight accommodation, transport to and from it .... Then the check A, oil replens etc are all done by you because the engineers don't get to see the aircraft for weeks...it goes on. Of course, as an added bonus, the pilot gets to carry the passenger's luggage.
There's no authorisation oversight, no ops staff, so no-one to book your airfield slot clearances or find suitable off airport landing sites (and gain the CAA permssions where needed), arrange aircraft hangarage, your overnight accommodation, transport to and from it .... Then the check A, oil replens etc are all done by you because the engineers don't get to see the aircraft for weeks...it goes on. Of course, as an added bonus, the pilot gets to carry the passenger's luggage.
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.....unless he thought he was actually flying clear of it, possibly further to the west. I still believe he may have seen a bridge over the Thames through a gap in the low cloud and mistaken it for another. It's an easy mistake to make.
SAS, unlike a lot of military flying, SAR aircraft launch all hours of the day and night with minimal planning time, sketchy details of the job, next to no idea what weather they will find on scene and often in the sorts of weather that most other sensible people don't go flying in at all.
By comparison - a civilian corporate pilot seems to have it quite easy
By comparison - a civilian corporate pilot seems to have it quite easy
Damn Crab, you really are trolling for bites with that one.
I haven't done SAR, but have done HEMS where the criteria you list are met. Have also worked in the single pilot charter environment. There is simply no comparison as far as workload goes, either on or off the job. The lack of team (crew) on the job, and the lack of team (back office support) in the SP corporate world means the workload is simply immense.
TT
I haven't done SAR, but have done HEMS where the criteria you list are met. Have also worked in the single pilot charter environment. There is simply no comparison as far as workload goes, either on or off the job. The lack of team (crew) on the job, and the lack of team (back office support) in the SP corporate world means the workload is simply immense.
TT
Even SAR-pilots should - and actually say no.
Hard decissions, cause you know, somebody is going to die - but better somebody else, I don´t know, than the crew and me.....
We have limits - which protect the younger ones cause they can say no below these limits without any query.
The older ones often fly below these limits - but only, as long as the whole crew is "happy" with that.
Every crewmember is entiteld to cancel the mission, if excecuted below the limits - no discussion after that.
Had some interesting outside landings, twice the helicopter had to stay there for about a week, cause the weather prohibited any returnflight...
Nice service of some locals with tea and accommodation (the rest of the first night) included.....
Hard decissions, cause you know, somebody is going to die - but better somebody else, I don´t know, than the crew and me.....
We have limits - which protect the younger ones cause they can say no below these limits without any query.
The older ones often fly below these limits - but only, as long as the whole crew is "happy" with that.
Every crewmember is entiteld to cancel the mission, if excecuted below the limits - no discussion after that.
Had some interesting outside landings, twice the helicopter had to stay there for about a week, cause the weather prohibited any returnflight...
Nice service of some locals with tea and accommodation (the rest of the first night) included.....
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By comparison - a civilian corporate pilot seems to have it quite easy
), plus military, HEMS and Police, I quickly found the SPIFR corporate world can be the most demanding. Not always, but often, for a number of reasons, the airborne workoad can be extremely high.SAR pilots have usually got very little to do except drink tea (
) and always more than one other person in the aircraft to help them once airborne, let alone that well established base organisation to help prep the helicopter and pull it out of the hangar before you even came on shift.In the corporate world, there is often only one shift. And you're often on it. 24/7.
On SAR, you don't have the person who directly pays your salary sitting in the back, always there to make your day by interrupting you with further demands and suggestion at the most critical of moments, such as the second you initiate an IMC go-around from minima. Try doing your daily job with the equivalent of the chief of the air staff in the cabin, always ready to press the "bing bong" button...
Also, it is always a bonus to be able to use a "Rescue" callsign.
Try getting any priority from ATC units when you're only allowed to use the aircraft reg. as your callsign. Like it or not, you're at the bottom of the pecking order with the puddle jumpers.
Speaking of puddle "jumping", the worst job of the day is lying in one after last landing to fit the towing arm because it's nearly midnight and everyone else has gone home.
Having written this, I'm thinking I'd now like to go back to SAR for a rest.
Yes, SAR is just sooooo easy - just remind me how far out to sea with nowhere to land or refuel do corporate pilots fly (day or night), and I must have forgotten the workload involved in night mountains in the snow and wind, hovertaxying in near zero vis with cumulogranitas all around.
Oh and then there is no pressure at all trying to get to a hospital as fast as possible in shi*e weather with guys giving CPR to the casualty(ies)in the back.
And I must be mis-remembering hovering downwind with no references with 250' of cable out and 2 pink bodies dangling on the end - it must be so much more difficult to negotiate a helilanes clearance with a nice air trafficker to get to Battersea during the day.
I presently train pilots up for the SPIFR role and it really isn't rocket science
Perhaps if the corporate world is so difficult and demanding with so much pressure, the pilots should choose to say no more often
Oh and then there is no pressure at all trying to get to a hospital as fast as possible in shi*e weather with guys giving CPR to the casualty(ies)in the back.
And I must be mis-remembering hovering downwind with no references with 250' of cable out and 2 pink bodies dangling on the end - it must be so much more difficult to negotiate a helilanes clearance with a nice air trafficker to get to Battersea during the day.
I presently train pilots up for the SPIFR role and it really isn't rocket science
Perhaps if the corporate world is so difficult and demanding with so much pressure, the pilots should choose to say no more often
Back to Neutral Corners fellas....both jobs have their unique demands.
Both have different setups and ways of doing things.
Crab will in time fully understand what we refer to when we talk of doing things alone....and not just the in-flight SPIFR thing....that is but one part of the job.
EMS pilots know that feeling of looking over their shoulder as their Crew pull every trick they have out of the Bag to save some poor Sod who is having a bad day.
Most places I worked that could be several times a day/night thing for them every shift they work.
We all have flown in crappy weather, a lot of us have done the winching in bad weather thing or done Lifts with folks dangling below us.
Going offshore to the very limits of your fuel endurance is not that uncommon as you try to offer the Customer the max number of seats....which is not much different than SAR as I know very few SAR Pilots who go beyond their fuel limit and cause themselves to have to land in the Oggin.
Crab might just accept that when a Civilian Contractor replaces the Military on some Contracted Task we always do so with fewer aircraft, fewer Staff, and with a higher rate of utilization. That is why we make money doing it.
Both have different setups and ways of doing things.
Crab will in time fully understand what we refer to when we talk of doing things alone....and not just the in-flight SPIFR thing....that is but one part of the job.
EMS pilots know that feeling of looking over their shoulder as their Crew pull every trick they have out of the Bag to save some poor Sod who is having a bad day.
Most places I worked that could be several times a day/night thing for them every shift they work.
We all have flown in crappy weather, a lot of us have done the winching in bad weather thing or done Lifts with folks dangling below us.
Going offshore to the very limits of your fuel endurance is not that uncommon as you try to offer the Customer the max number of seats....which is not much different than SAR as I know very few SAR Pilots who go beyond their fuel limit and cause themselves to have to land in the Oggin.
Crab might just accept that when a Civilian Contractor replaces the Military on some Contracted Task we always do so with fewer aircraft, fewer Staff, and with a higher rate of utilization. That is why we make money doing it.
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Damn Crab, you really are trolling for bites with that one.
I've done both jobs to the max.
Avoid imitations
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Perhaps if the corporate world is so difficult and demanding with so much pressure, the pilots should choose to say no more often
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Despite the humor of the dick-dance, you are all saying the same thing. Whatever the job entails, the critical component will be the Captaincy decisions that allow you to complete the mission safely. The corporate world has the added fun of trying to keep your job (by keeping your bosses happy) but it all counts for nothing if you kill yourself or your passengers through inadequate or poor decision making (i.e. Basic Captaincy).
This incident illustrated tragically (again) that accidents are no respecter of experience, on the day, the only decision that counts is the last one you made, regardless of how many hours you have under your belt.
This incident illustrated tragically (again) that accidents are no respecter of experience, on the day, the only decision that counts is the last one you made, regardless of how many hours you have under your belt.
SAR pilots have usually got very little to do except drink tea
I had a situation this week where the weather was SOP borderline and the temps made IFR not an option. I told the pax you may not get to your off airport LZ but we'll do our best. He agreed to continue. We did some dog legging to circumnavigate the bad stuff to stay VFR. It was night time, raining and miserable. We used IAS mode to slow things way down when required - a very important step. Don't charge around when things get murky. On many occasions I asked the SIC if he was happy to continue. We got the customer to his destination and he was happy. We added an extra 10 minutes or so to the trip, but I couldn't care less. We had abort plans set at every step and we weren't afraid to cut our losses and divert. Sticking to your guns is a critical part of decision making and I'm not the gambling type.
Anorak:
As much as we all loved him. He had cause to "drop the ball" for a second or two and it was all over. More weight to the statistic that 72% of all UK (global?) accidents are pilot induced.
Crab: I think one of the biggest differences between Corporate pressure and SAR pressure is that the former drags on continuously - way before and beyond the actual trip. The latter arrives in a lorry load - minutes before the trip and ends, seconds after you coast in and are visual with the airfield.
It is the constant drip drip drip of pressure that causes even the best (like this crash) to drop their guard for a few seconds.
For corporate drivers, the pressure starts as soon as the alarm clock goes off.
Quote:
.....unless he thought he was actually flying clear of it, possibly further to the west. I still believe he may have seen a bridge over the Thames through a gap in the low cloud and mistaken it for another. It's an easy mistake to make.
I think Shy has hit the nail on the head and, knowing the area well and having had the privilege of knowing Pete, I believe that this was the real cause of this tragic accident.
.....unless he thought he was actually flying clear of it, possibly further to the west. I still believe he may have seen a bridge over the Thames through a gap in the low cloud and mistaken it for another. It's an easy mistake to make.
I think Shy has hit the nail on the head and, knowing the area well and having had the privilege of knowing Pete, I believe that this was the real cause of this tragic accident.
Crab: I think one of the biggest differences between Corporate pressure and SAR pressure is that the former drags on continuously - way before and beyond the actual trip. The latter arrives in a lorry load - minutes before the trip and ends, seconds after you coast in and are visual with the airfield.
It is the constant drip drip drip of pressure that causes even the best (like this crash) to drop their guard for a few seconds.
For corporate drivers, the pressure starts as soon as the alarm clock goes off.
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 30th Nov 2015 at 11:47.
Twas more than a few Seconds I would suggest....there was a long string of Uh-Oh's!
Way back for instance when the Client called and said the weather too bad...scrub the flight.....for starters.
Way back for instance when the Client called and said the weather too bad...scrub the flight.....for starters.