Parachute jump from hell
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In sport skydiving, static line jumps are generally only used for initial-stage training purposes and this practice is in steep decline and has been removed from training practices in most countries .I haven’t seen someone do a static line jump in over 7yrs – I’ve been jumping over the past decade and have over a 1000 jumps.
My viewpoint is that anyone even asking about doing a static line jump would be a novice or new jumper and shouldn’t add the complexity of adding something extra like jumping out of a helicopter.
I’ve got many balloon and helicopter jumps and also don’t see what fun doing a static line jump would be – akin to pilot queries, you can usually judge someone’s skill/understanding by the queries they ask.
My viewpoint is that anyone even asking about doing a static line jump would be a novice or new jumper and shouldn’t add the complexity of adding something extra like jumping out of a helicopter.
I’ve got many balloon and helicopter jumps and also don’t see what fun doing a static line jump would be – akin to pilot queries, you can usually judge someone’s skill/understanding by the queries they ask.
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As a Lot of Jumpers would tell you, until you have shuffled out the Door wearing full Combat Kit at Night over an unlit DZ, you are still a "Leg".
I once met a fellow who only claimed four Jumps.....Sicily, Normandy, Holland, and the Rhine.
There's Jumpers and then there's Jumpers I reckon.
I once met a fellow who only claimed four Jumps.....Sicily, Normandy, Holland, and the Rhine.
There's Jumpers and then there's Jumpers I reckon.
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Soloviev, apologies for the drift from original question
RMK
Whilst I respect your 1000 jumps, I would side with BB on this one (LMFAO). Having said that, I agree that in the sports jump world static line is an inferior process and a novice wishing to jump static line from a helicopter should be appropriately educated.
However, please don’t dismiss static line outright as it has its place where freefall and sports jump methodology would not produce appropriate outcomes i.e 80kg of equipment, low altitude, multiple jumpers, narrow wind cone, at sea, out of helicopter range.
Whilst I respect your 1000 jumps, I would side with BB on this one (LMFAO). Having said that, I agree that in the sports jump world static line is an inferior process and a novice wishing to jump static line from a helicopter should be appropriately educated.
However, please don’t dismiss static line outright as it has its place where freefall and sports jump methodology would not produce appropriate outcomes i.e 80kg of equipment, low altitude, multiple jumpers, narrow wind cone, at sea, out of helicopter range.
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I'm a USPA D-licensed skydiver (non-current) who, at one time in the stone age, was also a USPA rated static line jumpmaster and now, much more recently, the holder of a U.S. private rotorcraft certificate.
With that disclaimer out of the way, FWIW (given my relatively low level of experience as a pilot) I don't think I'd be comfortable with putting static line jumpers out of most helicopters. Could it be done, yes, but I wouldn't be comfortable as either a jumper, jumpmaster or pilot. Certainly you'd want to short line it some and the skids would forever be an issue. It would certainly go better on ships with retractable gear or tailgates.
Freefall, on the other hand, is great. Yes, we've all seen the video that was posted some time ago showing the cock-up with the rig open in the cabin and getting loose. However that and other similar jump related risks are not unique to helicopters. More than one fixed wing aircraft has been destroyed and people lost because of such things. So indict the entire activity if you will, but don't indict it solely on the basis of it being associated with helicopters. I happen to think that skydiving, and helicopters, and balloons, and pretty much every other means of aerial conveyance, go together like peas and carrots
But maybe that's because I was a skydiver first 
In a strange coincidence, here is this month's Parachutist magazine cover:
With that disclaimer out of the way, FWIW (given my relatively low level of experience as a pilot) I don't think I'd be comfortable with putting static line jumpers out of most helicopters. Could it be done, yes, but I wouldn't be comfortable as either a jumper, jumpmaster or pilot. Certainly you'd want to short line it some and the skids would forever be an issue. It would certainly go better on ships with retractable gear or tailgates.
Freefall, on the other hand, is great. Yes, we've all seen the video that was posted some time ago showing the cock-up with the rig open in the cabin and getting loose. However that and other similar jump related risks are not unique to helicopters. More than one fixed wing aircraft has been destroyed and people lost because of such things. So indict the entire activity if you will, but don't indict it solely on the basis of it being associated with helicopters. I happen to think that skydiving, and helicopters, and balloons, and pretty much every other means of aerial conveyance, go together like peas and carrots
But maybe that's because I was a skydiver first In a strange coincidence, here is this month's Parachutist magazine cover:
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Every Jump Airplane I ever flew I was equipped with a parachute myself for use in an Emergency if needed.
I would suggest that indicates a need for the Pilot to have means to exit an aircraft (helicopter or airplane) should control of the aircraft occur due to a parachute mishap.
I would suggest that indicates a need for the Pilot to have means to exit an aircraft (helicopter or airplane) should control of the aircraft occur due to a parachute mishap.
Avoid imitations
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Years ago we used to regularly drop parachutists from up to 12,000 feet from our Puma helicopters. We did NOT use static lines, it was not allowed, free jumping only was the SOP. We used to fly with the gear up, at 55 kts and the jumpers used to dive out. Some of the crazy fools even overtook me, sitting in the right hand seat, by getting a run from the rear of the cabin, so they could wave. It always concerned me that one of them would get snagged or cause something to go through the tail rotor.
So I was never keen on this job, too many "what ifs" for my liking, especially as we weren't given chutes as pilots.
A few years before I arrived at the scene of this incident just after it had happened. They wouldn't have been so lucky in a helicopter:
So I was never keen on this job, too many "what ifs" for my liking, especially as we weren't given chutes as pilots.
A few years before I arrived at the scene of this incident just after it had happened. They wouldn't have been so lucky in a helicopter:
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The Fatal Descent of an Mi-8 | Military.com
Dumb-low-hour-guy observations/questions follow: it would appear from the slow rotation and the descent rate that the pilot attempted to put the ship into as low a torque state as possible. However why did he not try to use some forward speed to obtain some stabilization from the tail surfaces, in an auto or otherwise?
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Logical question and exactly the same I was asking myself.
Plenty of altitude to gradually gain some airspeed without having to tuck the Nose and bring on a very high rate of descent.
Not knowing how effective the streamlining effect is on a Mil-8....it is hard to pass judgement on what happened. It might be they just do not have enough Tail Fin to make that a real choice.
The Parachute hanging off the Tail Rotor would actually have been an asset in that effort however as it would create a lot of drag while it was attached to the Tail Rotor.
We used Drag Chutes (generally Pilot Chutes from Personnel Reserve Chutes) combined with a Swivel and short piece of line to act as a Stabilizing device when carrying AH-1's as Underslung Loads for the Chinook.....otherwise the things would just spin like Tops or oscillate wildly as they were very unstable loads.
Plenty of altitude to gradually gain some airspeed without having to tuck the Nose and bring on a very high rate of descent.
Not knowing how effective the streamlining effect is on a Mil-8....it is hard to pass judgement on what happened. It might be they just do not have enough Tail Fin to make that a real choice.
The Parachute hanging off the Tail Rotor would actually have been an asset in that effort however as it would create a lot of drag while it was attached to the Tail Rotor.
We used Drag Chutes (generally Pilot Chutes from Personnel Reserve Chutes) combined with a Swivel and short piece of line to act as a Stabilizing device when carrying AH-1's as Underslung Loads for the Chinook.....otherwise the things would just spin like Tops or oscillate wildly as they were very unstable loads.
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Several aspects....
To the OP, if you're not familiar with jump operations, teaching yourself is not an option. Go to a drop zone and get some training first from experienced jump pilots.
A static line from a hovering helo is NOT a sound plan. As a jumper, you have ZERO control over your body position until you've picked up some airspeed. Unless you're an experienced BASE jumper, you're going to tumble on exit. Add a static line to that mix and the result can be fatal.
Also, jumping from a helo is challenging. The instinct is to push off hard from the skid, not just let yourself fall. The result can be a mast bump. (or, umm....FODing the main rotor)
In summary...it's not amateur hour for either the pilot or the jumper.
To the OP, if you're not familiar with jump operations, teaching yourself is not an option. Go to a drop zone and get some training first from experienced jump pilots.
A static line from a hovering helo is NOT a sound plan. As a jumper, you have ZERO control over your body position until you've picked up some airspeed. Unless you're an experienced BASE jumper, you're going to tumble on exit. Add a static line to that mix and the result can be fatal.
Also, jumping from a helo is challenging. The instinct is to push off hard from the skid, not just let yourself fall. The result can be a mast bump. (or, umm....FODing the main rotor)
In summary...it's not amateur hour for either the pilot or the jumper.
Re: the Mi-8
A quick google revealed the following info (their translation, not mine):
An Ми-8 with parachuters onboard near Khabarovsk the reducer of the tail screw (tailrotor gearbox?) of the helicopter has collapsed.
For four and a half of an hour before accident near Nefteyugansk approximately in 40 km from Khabarovsk in area of air station other military helicopter Mi-8 has had an accident. State of emergency has occured nearby 10:30 on local time (3:30 on Moscow). The chief of regional management ГО and ЧС Ivan Sych has informed "Interfax" from a place of incident, that in the helicopter there were three members of crew and eight parachuters.
According to eyewitnesses, the machine, doing greater circles, the beginnings quickly to fall. However falling is closer to the ground was slowed down. The crew has done the utmost to level the rotary-wing machine and to make an emergency landing with the least losses, informs RIA of "News".
On preliminary data, the reason of falling of the military helicopter became technical malfunction of the machine.
The chief of the press-service of the Air Forces of Russia colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky has informed, that during планого десантирования at height of 1200 m the reducer of the tail screw of the helicopter has collapsed.
After that the commander of crew, captain Andrey Ivanenko has allowed a command to eight parachuters to leave the machine, and itself has continued to keep the helicopter at safe height, allocating it from technical and inhabited constructions. After десантирования the helicopter has made rigid (hard?) landing.
Three pilots have was traumatized all of a various degree of weight (severity?) and have been hospitalized. The commander of the crew who has received crisis of both legs has seriously suffered only.
Earlier the chief of regional management ГО and ЧС Ivan Sych has told, that the helicopter at movement has hooked the back screw on a parachute of the jumped parachuter and has made an emergency landing. The parachuter also has suffered and has been hospitalized.
Another summary in English gave this:
It was in 2005 near Khabarovsk. At an altitude of 1200 m tail rotor of Mi-8 helicopter collapsed. Paratroopers were ordered to jump out, after that helicopter made a hard landing. Members of a crew were injured, but everyone survived.
So it looks as if the outcome was not as awful as might have been expected. It still doen't explain why no attempt was made to gain forward speed once clear of the decending parachutes.
An Ми-8 with parachuters onboard near Khabarovsk the reducer of the tail screw (tailrotor gearbox?) of the helicopter has collapsed.
For four and a half of an hour before accident near Nefteyugansk approximately in 40 km from Khabarovsk in area of air station other military helicopter Mi-8 has had an accident. State of emergency has occured nearby 10:30 on local time (3:30 on Moscow). The chief of regional management ГО and ЧС Ivan Sych has informed "Interfax" from a place of incident, that in the helicopter there were three members of crew and eight parachuters.
According to eyewitnesses, the machine, doing greater circles, the beginnings quickly to fall. However falling is closer to the ground was slowed down. The crew has done the utmost to level the rotary-wing machine and to make an emergency landing with the least losses, informs RIA of "News".
On preliminary data, the reason of falling of the military helicopter became technical malfunction of the machine.
The chief of the press-service of the Air Forces of Russia colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky has informed, that during планого десантирования at height of 1200 m the reducer of the tail screw of the helicopter has collapsed.
After that the commander of crew, captain Andrey Ivanenko has allowed a command to eight parachuters to leave the machine, and itself has continued to keep the helicopter at safe height, allocating it from technical and inhabited constructions. After десантирования the helicopter has made rigid (hard?) landing.
Three pilots have was traumatized all of a various degree of weight (severity?) and have been hospitalized. The commander of the crew who has received crisis of both legs has seriously suffered only.
Earlier the chief of regional management ГО and ЧС Ivan Sych has told, that the helicopter at movement has hooked the back screw on a parachute of the jumped parachuter and has made an emergency landing. The parachuter also has suffered and has been hospitalized.
Another summary in English gave this:
It was in 2005 near Khabarovsk. At an altitude of 1200 m tail rotor of Mi-8 helicopter collapsed. Paratroopers were ordered to jump out, after that helicopter made a hard landing. Members of a crew were injured, but everyone survived.
So it looks as if the outcome was not as awful as might have been expected. It still doen't explain why no attempt was made to gain forward speed once clear of the decending parachutes.
Not knowing how effective the streamlining effect is on a Mil-8....it is hard to pass judgement on what happened. It might be they just do not have enough Tail Fin to make that a real choice.
Seems like he could have maybe got some forward airspeed. As I learned during my stuck pedal many years ago, collective can control everything....
Red On, Green On
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I'm sorry to reply to a thread that's almost as old as BEagle, but static line jumping from rotary beasts was practiced in the UK military.
I did three jumps from a Chinook in October 1986 onto Everleigh DZ, all before breakfast. I think we started at about 0500. We fitted parachutes, waited for the Wokka to land, emplaned, jumped, walked back to the chute truck with our used one in the bag, drew another and repeated. Three was enough for an annual jump qualification.
We'd got to the DZ on foot, as it incorporated our annual CFT in to the bargain.
And so ended my last day in uniform after five years in green and two in Dark Blue. On a DZ as the sun rose, eating an oatmeal block and holding a mug of tea, after not one but three jumps. I'd had a lot of fun, and got paid. Ridiculous value for money
I did three jumps from a Chinook in October 1986 onto Everleigh DZ, all before breakfast. I think we started at about 0500. We fitted parachutes, waited for the Wokka to land, emplaned, jumped, walked back to the chute truck with our used one in the bag, drew another and repeated. Three was enough for an annual jump qualification.
We'd got to the DZ on foot, as it incorporated our annual CFT in to the bargain.
And so ended my last day in uniform after five years in green and two in Dark Blue. On a DZ as the sun rose, eating an oatmeal block and holding a mug of tea, after not one but three jumps. I'd had a lot of fun, and got paid. Ridiculous value for money
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That or he was a poorly trained pilot or did not heed his training.
