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Long legs vs cyclic in 109 ....

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Long legs vs cyclic in 109 ....

Old 14th May 2014, 22:07
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Long legs vs cyclic in 109 ....

Does anyone else have the problem of almost no left cyclic with collective raised ?? I usually make sure my approach into a tight site has the wind on my right hand side ,as I don't have enough cyclic with even a light wind from the left .
The collective seems badly designed with the box of tricks on the end protruding out towards the pilot more than towards the copilot .
Has anyone looked at switching it around which would at least give a little more movement . Have lived with it for last few years but today I had to actually lift my leg up off the pedal in order to move the cyclic enough !!!!
Extending the pedals or moving the seat back is a possibility . I can't be the only one with long legs who has this problem !!!!
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Old 15th May 2014, 02:26
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Had the same problem in a 407. Not nice when you run out of any control as it generally isn't happening in the cruise but while your close to stuff.

Turned out it was one machine that was rigged slightly differently. It was within limits but at the very edge of those limits and a tiny adjustment resulted in the necessary movement of the cyclic's centre point. Made a huge difference and solved my problems, none of the shorter guys had an issue as their knees weren't in the same spot. I know nothing of the 109 but it could be worth looking into.

It was near impossible for the engineers to diagnose due to the precise nature of the measurements and the adjustment was so small they didn't think it would do anything. The resulting change in cyclic position was too much so it was backed off a little. Problem solved.
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Old 15th May 2014, 03:30
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If I remember correctly, to correct for that, our SP model has a slightly bent collective . . .
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Old 15th May 2014, 06:14
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Ask your engineering company to put the check rig pins in and also check the rigging of the swash plate links for correct length, I am tall I fly the 109 and gave not had any issues
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Old 15th May 2014, 09:04
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AW produce extended pedals as an option.
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Old 15th May 2014, 12:54
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I'm 6'1" and have no problems in an SP.

Rigging??
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Old 16th May 2014, 11:22
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Thankyou everyone for you help . I have also had a very useful PM and will let you know the result . The pedals extend anyway , but are at full extension . It is just the combination of knee up against the very big box on the end of the collective and there is then no room to move the cyclic . Not sure why i have put up with it for so long !! I think rigging will solve it but also IF one was allowed to bend the collective away a bit ( there is plenty of room in the middle ) that would equally sort it .
PPRuNe can be very useful at times ...Thankyou !!!!!!!!!!
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Old 16th May 2014, 12:41
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nigelh,

In the early days of the 109E, I had similar problems and queried it with Agusta. There was some issue relating to machines with and without sliding doors and the anticipation that those with would be used for winching with associated lateral CG concerns. To allow for this there was (reputedly) a different rigging which shifted the cyclic.

But that was many years ago, and may have been complete tosh!
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Old 16th May 2014, 13:40
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That would make sense if the winching was from left door which it probably was ....Even if the box on the end of the collective was turned around that would help . It doesnt seem to make any sense at all having it protruding more towards the pilots legs than co pilot ....there is ample room on that side !!
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Old 17th May 2014, 07:02
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May be the cyclic stick is not centred in the cyclic support at the base of the pilots seat. Inside the cyclic cover are two AN4 bolts which clamp the stick into the support,have your engineer loosen the bolts and ensure the stick is in the centre and bolts not been tightened whilst the stick was leaning to the left when it was last installed
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 23:10
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Smile

When I mentioned extended pedals as an option I meant a different pedal type altogether from the standard ones; they are designed for taller pilots.
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Old 5th Jun 2014, 21:17
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In the 119 I have the same problem there is a spot when the collective is partially raised where I have very little left cyclic available , the owner does not have the same problem . I'm 6 foot one he's 5 foot 10 ish
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