Training at 39 or 42 years old - any real difference?
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Training at 39 or 42 years old - any real difference?
'allo 'allo Rotorheads 
I posted this questions on a US helicopter forum, and was advised to try here on pprune as well, just to get advice from a European perspective.
I have recently decided to give the ATPL-H a go, ready to cash in my savings and a moderate loan. I figure that if all goes ok, I could return trained and hopefully with some useful hours at 39 years old.
And now this: my employer has offered me a pretty attractive part time college program, all expenses paid. My current occupation is not my dream, but a good job and of course my backup plan. The additional qualifications would make that backup much more reliable and give me a degree. But, it would delay flight training for about 3 years realistically. PPL flying on the side no problem (fixed wing for financial reasons), but there's no way to do pro training while working and studying that program.
I know age does matter. I wish that 39 and 42 where equally good/bad because booth are long past the prime flight training age anyway. On the other hand, age 40 might be a cut-off age.
In short: would employers who will not hire you at 42, hire you at 39?
I posted this questions on a US helicopter forum, and was advised to try here on pprune as well, just to get advice from a European perspective.
I have recently decided to give the ATPL-H a go, ready to cash in my savings and a moderate loan. I figure that if all goes ok, I could return trained and hopefully with some useful hours at 39 years old.
And now this: my employer has offered me a pretty attractive part time college program, all expenses paid. My current occupation is not my dream, but a good job and of course my backup plan. The additional qualifications would make that backup much more reliable and give me a degree. But, it would delay flight training for about 3 years realistically. PPL flying on the side no problem (fixed wing for financial reasons), but there's no way to do pro training while working and studying that program.
I know age does matter. I wish that 39 and 42 where equally good/bad because booth are long past the prime flight training age anyway. On the other hand, age 40 might be a cut-off age.
In short: would employers who will not hire you at 42, hire you at 39?
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I would not have thought the 39 / 42 issue is the one to worry about, it is the other candidates, their experience and their age / required remuneration that you need to consider.
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I absolutely do consider those factors. Still I would have to do so no matter what. I already am (and forever will be) older than most flight students.
I am ready to take on the risk, with no giant expectations other than doing my best. Just trying to evaluate how much risk I would add by waiting 3 more years, versus the benefits of getting that degree.
I am ready to take on the risk, with no giant expectations other than doing my best. Just trying to evaluate how much risk I would add by waiting 3 more years, versus the benefits of getting that degree.
my employer has offered me a pretty attractive part time college program, all expenses paid
Parsonally, I think that you are too late in life to change to this sort of horse. Even if you manage to get up to the ATPL(H) stage, which will take several years you will be competing against younger people who will not have built up the financial pressures that you will have already done at your age.
Before then you will be a CPL(H) pilot who will be nothing more than hundreds of other CPL(H)s chasing after the same few opportunities. It will take you a decade of 10% of your earnings to pay back the cost of your training even if you are ultra successful and that will take you up to your fifties.
There are two things that matter in this world; experience and experience. Age is a bonus with experience but a millstone without it.
Sorry to be such a misery but that is the way it is. I would hate you to ruin your life chasing the impossible dream.
Before then you will be a CPL(H) pilot who will be nothing more than hundreds of other CPL(H)s chasing after the same few opportunities. It will take you a decade of 10% of your earnings to pay back the cost of your training even if you are ultra successful and that will take you up to your fifties.
There are two things that matter in this world; experience and experience. Age is a bonus with experience but a millstone without it.
Sorry to be such a misery but that is the way it is. I would hate you to ruin your life chasing the impossible dream.
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I suggest obtaining that all-expenses paid degree that your current employer is offering and then revisit the flight training idea. In the meantime, talk with as many operators as you can find in the area you wish to work/fly. Be careful when the flight schools tell you of pilot shortages and placement, the unbiased discussions will be with the folks (potential employers) who don't want your money.
1+ on at GG & Fareastdr. opinions
But
On the other hand know, one US:
Flying in The Gulf of Mexico - Rotary Wing Forum
and one EU story:
Alidaunia - Servizio Elicotteri
of people who started on your ages level, with happy flight end...
My 0.2$ advice is to keep existing job and do PPL H,
than build hours and in parallel do ATPL H exams(modular),
when you done with exams and reach 1500 FH,
than you can wait for your real chance...
In case you can manage $$$ instrument and twin turbine ratings,
you can have real chances to spend your 50ties on board....
But
On the other hand know, one US:
Flying in The Gulf of Mexico - Rotary Wing Forum
and one EU story:
Alidaunia - Servizio Elicotteri
of people who started on your ages level, with happy flight end...
My 0.2$ advice is to keep existing job and do PPL H,
than build hours and in parallel do ATPL H exams(modular),
when you done with exams and reach 1500 FH,
than you can wait for your real chance...
In case you can manage $$$ instrument and twin turbine ratings,
you can have real chances to spend your 50ties on board....
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Over the hill
Geez guys! I started my flight training the past summer (after my 60th birthday) with no prior flying experience whatsoever. Granted, I'm not in it for a career and it probably took me ten hours before I could hold a steady hover (R22). Hopefully I'll become a decent helo pilot before I die.
Geez guys! I started my flight training the past summer (after my 60th birthday)
There are lots of pilots in Australia who have started flying training very late in life but they have done it more as a hobby, not to support themselves.
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Your discussion of pro/con training at 42 is of course welcome. But just for the record, I was more interested in finding out if 40 is some sort of barrier. I WILL be an old fart going to flight school, decision already made. This is about HOW old I will be.
I don't think I have unrealistic expectations. I just feel I have the time, motivation and most of the money to do it. I do not believe that anybody will hire me off the street just for my shiny new license. If I can work my way towards a paid flying job: jackpot. If not: accept it and get on with life. I will always at the very least have a job to pay for my small mortgage, food on the table and a rusty old car. I have simplified my life and found that it buys you a lot of freedom. Freedom to go fly and try your best at it without depending on 100% success, for example.
I don't think I have unrealistic expectations. I just feel I have the time, motivation and most of the money to do it. I do not believe that anybody will hire me off the street just for my shiny new license. If I can work my way towards a paid flying job: jackpot. If not: accept it and get on with life. I will always at the very least have a job to pay for my small mortgage, food on the table and a rusty old car. I have simplified my life and found that it buys you a lot of freedom. Freedom to go fly and try your best at it without depending on 100% success, for example.
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Got my CPL+IR working and saving from 1992 to 2002 and started flying in 2004 and I was hired each year only for the few months in summer, not always as pilot, till 2009 when I found my first permanent job on a hems twin as first officer when I was 42. Now I'm still on the left seat, studying to obtain my ATPL. No loans, all financed with my pretty normal salaries with about 25 non flying jobs. What the hell... No matter what happens... when I wake up in the morning and I look at myself in the mirror, and when we start-up the chopper I smile. Some young captains and co-pilots don't. They just don't understand 
Go for it.
Go for it.
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Hopefully I did not sound like I was trying to discourage you from flight training/career in my first post and in my opinion the age (number) 40 is not a "cut-off line" for such things. Just that the expense-paid education offered by your current employer sounds like the practical way to go for now, just in case things don't work out as planned.. My two cents.. Sincere good luck and let us know how it goes.
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Not discouraging at all, it's all valid points. I'm thankful for all advice from pilots.
My industry is not so small, so the degree would open the gates for quite a few positions. One possible field is actually loosely connected to helicopter operations, in North America though, not used in Europe.
My industry is not so small, so the degree would open the gates for quite a few positions. One possible field is actually loosely connected to helicopter operations, in North America though, not used in Europe.
"Just a pilot"
I can't speak for anything but my observations here in the USA, I'm on my second job since 1983...
That age bracket is not a negative factor. I've been HEMS for the last 13 years, seems the most common age group for new hires would be 40s, often into the 50s, and some early 60s.
That age bracket is not a negative factor. I've been HEMS for the last 13 years, seems the most common age group for new hires would be 40s, often into the 50s, and some early 60s.
If you can get some experience, Canada is not a bad option, we have one pilot in our company still flying at 76!
Not Ideal I guess but hey, he's still putting bread on the table and loves his job!
I have a friend who completed his training around 45 and is now gainfully employed again, as a pilot, this in Canada as well.
So there's that!
Cheers
H.
Not Ideal I guess but hey, he's still putting bread on the table and loves his job!
I have a friend who completed his training around 45 and is now gainfully employed again, as a pilot, this in Canada as well.
So there's that!
Cheers
H.