UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 3
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And it's not just cutting a unit or two. I understand that there are currently three units, all with perfectly serviceable aircraft, but all grounded because the "i"s running the show have been unable to close the contract with the new maintenance provider after the callous culling of a cost-efficient, loyal and effective operation (ECPM/NAPS Eng.). I presume that leaves the sole residual provider calling the shots somewhat earlier than everyone suspected would happen anyway, building further the £4ish million overspend on this £15m cost-saving enterprise.
Not quite sure how this squares with the organisations aims, except that crews are being paid to sit around, next to a fine & ready steed, willing to go, but un-supported by management competence, planning, or any form of decent treatment towards the individuals affected.
Sadly, there's a remarkable resemblance to actions of the Thugees of India, c1800, in all that both the maintenance and operational organisations are doing to UK Police Aviation at the moment; although I haven't heard their God called Kali yet? (use Google if not familiar)
Not quite sure how this squares with the organisations aims, except that crews are being paid to sit around, next to a fine & ready steed, willing to go, but un-supported by management competence, planning, or any form of decent treatment towards the individuals affected.
Sadly, there's a remarkable resemblance to actions of the Thugees of India, c1800, in all that both the maintenance and operational organisations are doing to UK Police Aviation at the moment; although I haven't heard their God called Kali yet? (use Google if not familiar)
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Coconutty
Here's a couple of examples for you:
Here's a couple of examples for you:
- Spare aircraft available during own aircraft's maintenance downtime
- 24/7 cover in areas previously only 20/7
- Availability of additional aircraft when several jobs occur in close proximity
- Seamless transfer between neighbouring aircraft, when fuel critical on extended jobs.
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ARIS,
Took a while but thanks for that - I KNEW there would be someone, somewhere, that had some Good News for a change
Conceded that IF this happens it's a Good thing 
I'm still sceptical on this one - As far as I know there are no NEW 24 Hr Units,
so it's the exisiting ones that will be providing the cover further afield.
What happens then, in what was previously their own area,
where they had identified a need for 24 Hr cover, and the aircraft they previously had available is now deployed elsewhere ? -
Surely they now receive a poorer, or less efficient service during those times ?
That was already happening in some Regions when there was a need.
That was also already happening in some Regions when there was a need.
Any more examples to demonstrate an improved service under NPAS,
or better still any examples of cost savings achieved yet ?
Took a while but thanks for that - I KNEW there would be someone, somewhere, that had some Good News for a change
Spare aircraft available during own aircraft's maintenance downtime
24/7 cover in areas previously only 20/7
so it's the exisiting ones that will be providing the cover further afield.
What happens then, in what was previously their own area,
where they had identified a need for 24 Hr cover, and the aircraft they previously had available is now deployed elsewhere ? -
Surely they now receive a poorer, or less efficient service during those times ?
Availability of additional aircraft when several jobs occur in close proximity
Seamless transfer between neighbouring aircraft, when fuel critical on extended jobs.
Any more examples to demonstrate an improved service under NPAS,
or better still any examples of cost savings achieved yet ?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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In the past, some regions were very proactive with air support, whilst others were less so. It was an expensive business and some chiefs were not prepared to pay. Its a generalisation by me, but I guess that the new 'happy bears' are the ones who didnt see much air support and the 'grumpy bears' are the ones who did.
We used to seamlessly call on neighbouring units during incidents when fuel was tight, we covered other areas when aircraft were offline as well (big area for one helicopter though). This now means that with NPAS, for some people, there is little difference (or reduction in service) for such large changes. On the other hand, in some areas they now have a helicopter on call when in the past they didn't.
Most of the centralisation problems were predicted years ago and have come so so real. There was never anything that you could have done to stop this happening as long as someone was shouting "I will save you all money for a better service". Local commissioners can shout all they want, its just noise and they will get a sore throat eventually. The best thing for all to do is bite the bullet and try your best to make things work as well as possible. If you can't take any more.............. don't............. leave and find a job/post that interests you. I made the move away and am very happy with my new job.
We used to seamlessly call on neighbouring units during incidents when fuel was tight, we covered other areas when aircraft were offline as well (big area for one helicopter though). This now means that with NPAS, for some people, there is little difference (or reduction in service) for such large changes. On the other hand, in some areas they now have a helicopter on call when in the past they didn't.
Most of the centralisation problems were predicted years ago and have come so so real. There was never anything that you could have done to stop this happening as long as someone was shouting "I will save you all money for a better service". Local commissioners can shout all they want, its just noise and they will get a sore throat eventually. The best thing for all to do is bite the bullet and try your best to make things work as well as possible. If you can't take any more.............. don't............. leave and find a job/post that interests you. I made the move away and am very happy with my new job.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Police Helicopter Surveys Landing Sites
Police Helicopter Surveys Landing Sites | Scilly Today
There's a shame eh!
A police helicopter was in the air over Scilly yesterday afternoon.
But the EC145 Eurocopter wasnt here for an emergency. It was a planned visit to allow new pilots to familiarise themselves with the islands.
Sergeant Colin Taylor says the management of police helicopters in England and Wales changed last October.
Instead of being linked to particular forces, they now come under a single organisation, the National Police Air Service, formed to coordinate the activities of all Police aircraft.
Its the first time they have organised a flight over here since moving to the new arrangements
It was a chance for them to assess landing sites on all the islands.
Colin says they also took photos from key points around the coastline, which could help in planning future search and rescue operations.
The work only took a few hours, although a technical problem with the chopper door meant it had to stay at St Marys airport overnight, while an engineer was brought from the mainland.
But the EC145 Eurocopter wasnt here for an emergency. It was a planned visit to allow new pilots to familiarise themselves with the islands.
Sergeant Colin Taylor says the management of police helicopters in England and Wales changed last October.
Instead of being linked to particular forces, they now come under a single organisation, the National Police Air Service, formed to coordinate the activities of all Police aircraft.
Its the first time they have organised a flight over here since moving to the new arrangements
It was a chance for them to assess landing sites on all the islands.
Colin says they also took photos from key points around the coastline, which could help in planning future search and rescue operations.
The work only took a few hours, although a technical problem with the chopper door meant it had to stay at St Marys airport overnight, while an engineer was brought from the mainland.
There's a shame eh!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I wonder if, as they will be the only 24 hr unit South of the 53rd parallel (well The Met wouldn't be deploying so far SW) whether the lads and lasses from West Mids be getting a familiarisation of the Scilly Isles?
Their door handles are sometimes a bit stiff and the runners a tad graunchy, so I hear, and the qualities of the Ales of Scilly will need to be verified by an independent, select group of Midland tasters.
Anyway, I hear some ASBO's have to be served down there
alesofscilly.co.uk
Their door handles are sometimes a bit stiff and the runners a tad graunchy, so I hear, and the qualities of the Ales of Scilly will need to be verified by an independent, select group of Midland tasters.
Anyway, I hear some ASBO's have to be served down there
alesofscilly.co.uk
Hm well there's another waste of tax payer's money. If they have to survey the islands for sites doesn't say much for piloting ability does it ?
Last edited by MightyGem; 11th Aug 2013 at 17:52.
Yes, they couldn't possibly have just talked to the 771 guys at Culdrose who know the islands like the back of their hands
And what will the police bring to search and rescue operations on Scilly that isn't already covered by the MCA and SAR???
And what will the police bring to search and rescue operations on Scilly that isn't already covered by the MCA and SAR???
Mighty
Come on ! Any commercial operator has to survey a site from Google earth for a pax pick up so what's wrong with Police pilots ? How many landing sites are in The Police directory for the whole of the SW ? Do I have to fund every pilot going round to see each one ? ( from D & C base to Scilly is about an hour each way say another 2 hours arsing about, so that's 4 hours of 400 to 600 hours a year or 1% of the budget( hope line and base check was done on the way down ) Thought the machine was supposedly fighting crime why is it having to land every where ?
Come on ! Any commercial operator has to survey a site from Google earth for a pax pick up so what's wrong with Police pilots ? How many landing sites are in The Police directory for the whole of the SW ? Do I have to fund every pilot going round to see each one ? ( from D & C base to Scilly is about an hour each way say another 2 hours arsing about, so that's 4 hours of 400 to 600 hours a year or 1% of the budget( hope line and base check was done on the way down ) Thought the machine was supposedly fighting crime why is it having to land every where ?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
https://mobile.twitter.com/NPAS_Exeter/tweets
This job? Major Incident On St Mary?s Quay | Scilly Today
Surveyed, add hoc or airfield?
Maybe just a quick look on google.... I hope the height of the stumps was surveyed before t/o
MG
Have to agree with H500.
Surely the cost saving point here is not to have too many landing sites (whose surveys will need constant updating) in the directory in the first place. Besides, are there many 'confined areas' on the Scillies that aren't next to a large open area? I've not been there for a good 20 years+, but I remember them as being fairly bleak, which is backed up in modern times by google maps.
Busy day & evening for the crews of Oscar 99, with rapid transport of officers to Scilly Isles, lost person searches in Hayle and Torquay.
1:06am - 19 Jun 13
1:06am - 19 Jun 13
Surveyed, add hoc or airfield?
Maybe just a quick look on google.... I hope the height of the stumps was surveyed before t/o
MG
Making Ad Hoc landings is not a problem. However, if a landing site is to be included in the Unit's Landing Site Directory, then it has to be surveyed ...
Surely the cost saving point here is not to have too many landing sites (whose surveys will need constant updating) in the directory in the first place. Besides, are there many 'confined areas' on the Scillies that aren't next to a large open area? I've not been there for a good 20 years+, but I remember them as being fairly bleak, which is backed up in modern times by google maps.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Just out of interest.
£20m of cocaine found on yacht | This is Cornwall
Cocaine with a street value of £20 million has been found aboard a yacht which was raided on the Isles of Scilly.
The skipper of the Windrose plunged to his death on St Mary's during the intelligence-led operation by Border Force officers on Monday evening.
The Dutch man, who has so far not been named, suffered serious head injuries when he leapt from the mast onto the quayside in what's thought to have been a bid to escape.
The skipper of the Windrose plunged to his death on St Mary's during the intelligence-led operation by Border Force officers on Monday evening.
The Dutch man, who has so far not been named, suffered serious head injuries when he leapt from the mast onto the quayside in what's thought to have been a bid to escape.
SS
I will bow to your superior knowledge here but air ambulance pilots don't float around looking at landing sites, they don't know where they are going from job to job ? Does that mean there is a higher skill level for an AA pilot than a plod one ?
I will bow to your superior knowledge here but air ambulance pilots don't float around looking at landing sites, they don't know where they are going from job to job ? Does that mean there is a higher skill level for an AA pilot than a plod one ?
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AA pilots have dispensations to go into adhoc HLS. Routine sites have to be presurveyed and we cannot go in unless a valid survey is done. Adhoc is hems only, life or death
Chaps chaps chaps. Calm down calm down.
A very reliable source tells me that if you read the NPAS Police Ops Manual then it actual says that to use a site at night then the site must be surveyed and kept in the site landing directory (each site survey valid for 12 months). Otherwise days landings can be made adhoc or by use of estimation such as O/S mapping or Google Earth but obviously pilots must have a good look themselves at the site before landing.
Hope that puts an end to the current moaning!
A very reliable source tells me that if you read the NPAS Police Ops Manual then it actual says that to use a site at night then the site must be surveyed and kept in the site landing directory (each site survey valid for 12 months). Otherwise days landings can be made adhoc or by use of estimation such as O/S mapping or Google Earth but obviously pilots must have a good look themselves at the site before landing.
Hope that puts an end to the current moaning!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
H500;
Mmm, don't quite know why you're getting a bit shirty, I was agreeing with your comment about the expense.
As for going from job to job, I think you'll find the only job a police pilot knows where he is going and can do some 'paperwork planning' is the initial one that they have launched for, the same can also be said for the AA pilot. However, once in the air anything is on and you can literally end up anywhere, doing anything, at anytime. I'd say the skill levels for Pol/AA are directly comparable as far as the handling and ac operation are concerned, it's simply the role that differs.
By the way, I think you will find that air ambulance pilots do float around looking at landing sites, much the same as any other safe pilot and crew would, in any part of our industry.
I will bow to your superior knowledge here but air ambulance pilots don't float around looking at landing sites, they don't know where they are going from job to job ? Does that mean there is a higher skill level for an AA pilot than a plod one ?
As for going from job to job, I think you'll find the only job a police pilot knows where he is going and can do some 'paperwork planning' is the initial one that they have launched for, the same can also be said for the AA pilot. However, once in the air anything is on and you can literally end up anywhere, doing anything, at anytime. I'd say the skill levels for Pol/AA are directly comparable as far as the handling and ac operation are concerned, it's simply the role that differs.
By the way, I think you will find that air ambulance pilots do float around looking at landing sites, much the same as any other safe pilot and crew would, in any part of our industry.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
No, not survey by google, but a quick butchers to at least have an idea of what to expect before leaving the office. Besides, who's to say the 'directory survey' is still good 11 months down the line? I would have thought that both plod & ambo units will look at a job on google maps or similar anyway, if for no other reason than to get an idea of the 'lie of the land' etc.
After all, prior planning and all that
I'm of the opinion that this line of the thread should be about the expense of these surveys in an area 120 miles from base, against their usage, not the abilities of different pilots in different roles.
Out of interest, anyone know where the officers in the latest case were dropped off?
After all, prior planning and all that
I'm of the opinion that this line of the thread should be about the expense of these surveys in an area 120 miles from base, against their usage, not the abilities of different pilots in different roles.
Out of interest, anyone know where the officers in the latest case were dropped off?
SS
Not getting ****ty but I warned various people on this thread that if they kept perceiving to waste tax payers money then someone would come along with a large hatchet........... perception is everything
Some people don't seem to want to live in the " real " world or they seem not to want to learn. When you run these things personally in a commercial world and one has to write the cheques out for them you look at things differently. That is not to say safety doesn't come first or course it does but when as a tax payer I see the machine has overnighted on a landing site survey in the Scilly's in mid summer it does wrankle just a bit !!!!! I can see the auditor looking and saying there is a waste, we will cut down the hours and or the budget which is not helpful to any of us, I want to see the heli fighting crime and doing what is supposed to do.
I was being very tongue in cheek with police pilots
Not getting ****ty but I warned various people on this thread that if they kept perceiving to waste tax payers money then someone would come along with a large hatchet........... perception is everything
Some people don't seem to want to live in the " real " world or they seem not to want to learn. When you run these things personally in a commercial world and one has to write the cheques out for them you look at things differently. That is not to say safety doesn't come first or course it does but when as a tax payer I see the machine has overnighted on a landing site survey in the Scilly's in mid summer it does wrankle just a bit !!!!! I can see the auditor looking and saying there is a waste, we will cut down the hours and or the budget which is not helpful to any of us, I want to see the heli fighting crime and doing what is supposed to do.
I was being very tongue in cheek with police pilots
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
H, it's easier to pronounce your 'r's without your tongue in your cheek