AS332L2 Ditching off Shetland: 23rd August 2013
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Effortless. I started my aviation career as a Helicopter Engineer in the Military. Both Military and Civilian maintenance requirements are comprehensive and follow strict regimes for servicing, component replacement and quality control. Both have in built proactive and reactive components that are driven at heart by reliability programmes.
For offshore helicopters there are additional maintenance practices to support the operational and environmental operating conditions.
As an offshore pilot I spend plenty of time in the hangar watching how our engineers work and behave and in my opinion they are the best in the business. There skill and dedication is second to none. However, just like pilots, engineers and offshore workers we are all human and errors can occur.
I hope this answers your question.
For offshore helicopters there are additional maintenance practices to support the operational and environmental operating conditions.
As an offshore pilot I spend plenty of time in the hangar watching how our engineers work and behave and in my opinion they are the best in the business. There skill and dedication is second to none. However, just like pilots, engineers and offshore workers we are all human and errors can occur.
I hope this answers your question.
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According to airwave45 North Sea operations are half as safe as those in the Gulf of Mexico!
Who would have thought it!
Who would have thought it!
Not my Stats. (and not N Sea as that includes the Noggies, but Scottish)
Taken from http://www.ogp.org.uk/pubs/434-11.pdf
Between 1998 and 2006 (ok, old data, but still relevant)
North Sea 1.3 million hours flown, 12 accidents, 18 killed.
GoM 3.7 million hours flown, 106 accidents, 53 killed.
Everywhere else 3.1 million hours flown, 69 accidents, 149 killed.
Given that the Noggies are unfairly saddled with Scottish prangs, we'll take them out, giving 650,000 flying hours to work the stats against.
In the Scottish sector, in the above period, you flew 36,111 hours per fatality.
The Americans flew 69,811 hours per fatality. A large amount of which was in single engine single pilot helicopters, which even slf understand is not as good as medium/heavy twins with two pilots up front.
Last edited by airwave45; 27th Aug 2013 at 09:02.
Airwave - lies, damned lies and statistics! Firstly if you look at the accident rate, as opposed to the fatal accident rate, the GoM is far worse. Because they fly small helis, each accident only risks the lives of a handful, so they can have far more fatal accidents than we can. At least a good chunk of the N Sea fatals in that period must have come from the Bristow 76 that disintegrated off Norwich. Really, its hard to see how the operator could have avoided that accident - it was down to an undetectable maintenance error on a rotor blade at Sikorsky. So that one accident really skews the stats. Plus, lots of people can fall into the sea in GoM and in general, because its a more benign environment, they get away without dying. Comparing stats from different types of operations can be misleading.
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As one who has been associated with military helicopters since the Vietnam era and now working in the offshore industry and sometimes spend time riding in the back seats of said helicopters may I put in my five cents worth.
I recently flew out of the Shetlands and during the preflight briefing not one mention of what to do in the event of a ditching ie How to don you rebreather etc. I went through all this during my HUET 3 years ago but ones memory tends to gather cobwebs after a rime.
What I think should happen is a more robust preflight briefing where all this is information is demonstrated. During any operation that involves a risk offshore we have to fill out JSA;s and have toolbox talks where every risk is discussed and what preventative measures must be taken. An extra ten minutes briefing may have saved some or all the lives lost in this accident.
Lastly my insurance company will not cover me for helicopter rides offshore. If helicopter flight is so safe why is this?
I recently flew out of the Shetlands and during the preflight briefing not one mention of what to do in the event of a ditching ie How to don you rebreather etc. I went through all this during my HUET 3 years ago but ones memory tends to gather cobwebs after a rime.
What I think should happen is a more robust preflight briefing where all this is information is demonstrated. During any operation that involves a risk offshore we have to fill out JSA;s and have toolbox talks where every risk is discussed and what preventative measures must be taken. An extra ten minutes briefing may have saved some or all the lives lost in this accident.
Lastly my insurance company will not cover me for helicopter rides offshore. If helicopter flight is so safe why is this?
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lostinp - surely you have the (rather lengthy IMO) DVD briefing? Do you feel that a human briefing would be better?
There are a couple of factors here - yes, the DVD doesn't grab your attention the same wayas a human does, but on the other hand the DVD ensures a consitent brief every time, free from the frailties of human memory. There have on occasion been times when we pilots have been asked to go down to speak to the passengers, but the reaction I have got is that they wonder what's up, and why are we doing that instead of concentrating on preparing to fly! (can't win!)
There are a couple of factors here - yes, the DVD doesn't grab your attention the same wayas a human does, but on the other hand the DVD ensures a consitent brief every time, free from the frailties of human memory. There have on occasion been times when we pilots have been asked to go down to speak to the passengers, but the reaction I have got is that they wonder what's up, and why are we doing that instead of concentrating on preparing to fly! (can't win!)
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"Airwave - lies, damned lies and statistics! Firstly if you look at the accident rate, as opposed to the fatal accident rate, the GoM is far worse. Because they fly small helis, each accident only risks the lives of a handful, so they can have far more fatal accidents than we can. At least a good chunk of the N Sea fatals in that period must have come from the Bristow 76 that disintegrated off Norwich. Really, its hard to see how the operator could have avoided that accident - it was down to an undetectable maintenance error on a rotor blade at Sikorsky. So that one accident really skews the stats. Plus, lots of people can fall into the sea in GoM and in general, because its a more benign environment, they get away without dying. Comparing stats from different types of operations can be misleading."
Totally agree, the GOM is a less hostile environment. Furthermore it's not correct to leave out the Norwegian sector. It is like leaving out a base in the GOM that had few or none accidents.
Totally agree, the GOM is a less hostile environment. Furthermore it's not correct to leave out the Norwegian sector. It is like leaving out a base in the GOM that had few or none accidents.
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Boat transfers will never be an acceptable method of transferring folk from rig to ship because they involve basket transfers. Basket transfers are inherently dangerous and terrifying to anyone scared of heights. Personally I have seen two go badly wrong with one guy ending in the sea and the second damaging his leg. He stepped off before the basket was on the deck of the pitching ship, basically he panicked. He had to be returned to the barge that had just dropped him in the same basket.
My company, a major offshore construction company, banned basket transfers years ago and are rarely used. Too many folk get hurt.
BP came up with something called a Frog. The victims would sit inside, strapped in, no windows and were craned from ship to rig. This, as you can imagine, is pretty scary too.
Basket transfers are hugely weather dependent. You can forget a transfer on anything over 30 knots. Helicopters remain the safest method of transferring workers to and from the platforms, rigs and ships in the North Sea.
My company, a major offshore construction company, banned basket transfers years ago and are rarely used. Too many folk get hurt.
BP came up with something called a Frog. The victims would sit inside, strapped in, no windows and were craned from ship to rig. This, as you can imagine, is pretty scary too.
Basket transfers are hugely weather dependent. You can forget a transfer on anything over 30 knots. Helicopters remain the safest method of transferring workers to and from the platforms, rigs and ships in the North Sea.
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imsafe, from
http://www.sintef.no/upload/Teknolog...n%20Report.pdf
Table 5.3.
Sum 34 0
http://www.sintef.no/upload/Teknolog...n%20Report.pdf
Table 5.3.
Accidents in the North Sea in the period 1999–2009.
No. Date Helicopter Country Fatalities Survivors
No. Date Helicopter Country Fatalities Survivors
1 2000-02-15 AS332L UK - -
2 2001-07-12 S-76A UK - -
3 2001-11-10 AS332L UK - -
2 2001-07-12 S-76A UK - -
3 2001-11-10 AS332L UK - -
4 2002-02-28
AS332L UK - -
5 2002-07-16 S-76A UK 11 0
6 2002-11-05 AS332L2 NO - -
7 2006-03-03 AS332L2 UK - -
8 2006-12-27
7 2006-03-03 AS332L2 UK - -
8 2006-12-27
SA365N UK 7 0
9 2008-02-22
AS332L2 UK - -
10 2008-03-09
SA365N UK - -
11 2009-02-18 EC225 UK - -
12 2009-04-01
AS332L2 UK 16 0
Sum 34 0
the formatting has gone, but you see now why I can leave the Noggies out of this ?
They do more flying than us and have a vanishngly small crash rate.
They do more flying than us and have a vanishngly small crash rate.
Now, why is that?
Last edited by airwave45; 27th Aug 2013 at 09:40. Reason: Formatting errors
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Aircraft safety briefing videos represent a leap forward in safety for, as HC mentioned, they deliver consistency but, for more importantly, are able to illustrate key safety factors, in most cases, far more effectively than "live" briefs.
I encourage helicopter operators to have a downloadable safety video for each type they operate on their websites and would encourage bears to download these onto their tablets and laptops and to watch the relevant video prior to their next flight.
This can never be a substitute for the pre-flight safety video but it can be an important enhancement to offshore safety.
I encourage helicopter operators to have a downloadable safety video for each type they operate on their websites and would encourage bears to download these onto their tablets and laptops and to watch the relevant video prior to their next flight.
This can never be a substitute for the pre-flight safety video but it can be an important enhancement to offshore safety.
Last edited by Grenville Fortescue; 27th Aug 2013 at 09:40.
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Resources. Is the easy answer to that.
Noggy oil companies are willing to pay for a better level of cover on all fronts.
Including back up aircraft, instead of trimming to a minimum level.
Noggy oil companies are willing to pay for a better level of cover on all fronts.
Including back up aircraft, instead of trimming to a minimum level.
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I thought the blade had suffered a lightning strike, was sent to SAC for repairs, then returned to Bristow whereafter it failed on take-off from a platform?
Last edited by Anthony Supplebottom; 27th Aug 2013 at 09:42.
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Originally Posted by OMONEZ View Post
HC. The 76 blade defect was a manufacture defect that was accepted and release to service by SK.
HC. The 76 blade defect was a manufacture defect that was accepted and release to service by SK.
I thought the blade has suffered a lightning strike, was sent to SAC for repairs, then returned to Bristow whereafter it failed on take-off from a rig?
Si
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S76Heavy
HeliComparator
Unfortunately it was not included on the DVD, but before the flight I did a check of each piece of safety gear I was wearing trying to remember exactly what I was taught
Perhaps a physical demo would have been much better. especially in my case as I had not flown in a chopper in a cold water environment since my HUET 3 years ago
HeliComparator
Unfortunately it was not included on the DVD, but before the flight I did a check of each piece of safety gear I was wearing trying to remember exactly what I was taught
Perhaps a physical demo would have been much better. especially in my case as I had not flown in a chopper in a cold water environment since my HUET 3 years ago
Airwave, what are all those accidents with no survivors and no fatalities? Where they ground incidents or what ( maybe it depends on the definition of an accident, which varies from region to region).
Anyway, we have of consequence:
in 2002 the 76 accident that was solely the manufacturer's fault
in 2006 the Morcambe Bay dauphin, solely pilot error (with some underlying questions about training and Ops Man)
in 2009 the nasty L2, down to maintenance issues.
The rest are what? Bumping the rotor blades on the hangar doors when tractoring it in for example? Publishing a list of events, without knowing what they are, is not helpful.
Anyway, we have of consequence:
in 2002 the 76 accident that was solely the manufacturer's fault
in 2006 the Morcambe Bay dauphin, solely pilot error (with some underlying questions about training and Ops Man)
in 2009 the nasty L2, down to maintenance issues.
The rest are what? Bumping the rotor blades on the hangar doors when tractoring it in for example? Publishing a list of events, without knowing what they are, is not helpful.
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Oldpilot - boat transfers are not done by basket but by hydraulic gangway. There are still weather restrictions but to date gangway transfer is significantly safer than helicopters.
Helicopters win on convenience and weather limits - not safety (although if the gangway limits are pushed that will change!)
Helicopters win on convenience and weather limits - not safety (although if the gangway limits are pushed that will change!)