Brantly
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: USA
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Great Post, RD, Thanks for sharing
Had pleasure of flying B2A an owning/flying B2B few years ago
Agree wholeheartedly with all your observations about a real fun flying machine
A few of my thoughts.
Initially, Mr Brantly was a great engineer in his era, but compared to present day technology, the ship is kinda Jurrasic Park.
I say this while still wishing the latest efforts to produce again success.
The vertically mounted Franklin rarely makes it to 1000 hrs for a *very* expensive overhaul/replacement...less than 500 is very common
Compared to RHC components ease of maintenance and component accessability, the B2 is particularly demanding..
I offer these somewhat negative observations only to keep our euphoria of a magnificently behaving classic flying experience in realistic perspective
On a very positive note, Trade-A-Plane often has some pristine looking, flying B2s in the 35-50G price range
Finally, the reason I sold mine, was I sincerely think in modern environments, the ship is a 'be-heading' waiting to happen
If Frank R's statistics are sobering about people losing arguments and human components with his tail rotors....., just imagine how many people would not remember how low those Brantly (folding) blades really are
I had even fashioned a mini pinnacle pad at my farm heliport to make blades/ground clearance greater than average human head during loading/egressing
RD...I still have lotsa written manuals, etc, and phones for couple of *very* helpful/ knowledgeable Brantly lovers that made my brief ownership a pleasure.
Glad to share...E-M me here or R-22
Pat G
US Army ORWAC Class 65-10
N45PG Heliport 6NJ2
Had pleasure of flying B2A an owning/flying B2B few years ago
Agree wholeheartedly with all your observations about a real fun flying machine
A few of my thoughts.
Initially, Mr Brantly was a great engineer in his era, but compared to present day technology, the ship is kinda Jurrasic Park.
I say this while still wishing the latest efforts to produce again success.
The vertically mounted Franklin rarely makes it to 1000 hrs for a *very* expensive overhaul/replacement...less than 500 is very common
Compared to RHC components ease of maintenance and component accessability, the B2 is particularly demanding..
I offer these somewhat negative observations only to keep our euphoria of a magnificently behaving classic flying experience in realistic perspective
On a very positive note, Trade-A-Plane often has some pristine looking, flying B2s in the 35-50G price range
Finally, the reason I sold mine, was I sincerely think in modern environments, the ship is a 'be-heading' waiting to happen
If Frank R's statistics are sobering about people losing arguments and human components with his tail rotors....., just imagine how many people would not remember how low those Brantly (folding) blades really are
I had even fashioned a mini pinnacle pad at my farm heliport to make blades/ground clearance greater than average human head during loading/egressing
RD...I still have lotsa written manuals, etc, and phones for couple of *very* helpful/ knowledgeable Brantly lovers that made my brief ownership a pleasure.
Glad to share...E-M me here or R-22
Pat G
US Army ORWAC Class 65-10
N45PG Heliport 6NJ2
Franklin is the name of the company that made the engine. The vertical bit refers to the fact that the crankshaft is in a vertical attitude with respect to the fuselage as opposed the aft-facing horizontal mounting used in the R22/R44.
Hope this helps
CRAN
Hope this helps
CRAN
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
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Pat, it's too bad they don't have the five seat version in production anymore. However, I think there is one in flying condition somewhere (saw it in a recent video). I like the Brantly as a classic flyer, but if they replaced some items with new composite materials, improved airfoil shapes, and made some minor changes in other areas - the B2B could probably out perform most of the other pistons (my opinion). The safety stastistics in the B2B are amazing (something like 2 fatal accidents in 40+ years), but there aren't that many of them. I'd love to get my paws on some flight manuals and get a few other contacts, thanks for the offer.
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RD
There was a 305 flying near Oklahoma City. The owner was kind of a Professor Emeritus (Dean of all Brantly Lovers)
He worked for Factory (Original, not Texas Repo) from day one thru day demise, and has owned at least 3 ships at all times . He just loved extolling its virtues to spell-bound listeners like me, hanging on his every (heavily laden Okie accented) word of wisdom.
Another very helpful Guru/owner is in Alabama, and another at a Residentil airpark, 25 mi So of Denver
Please do E-Mail me ..glad to share names an addresses off Forum, and anything else I have squirrelled away
There was a 305 flying near Oklahoma City. The owner was kind of a Professor Emeritus (Dean of all Brantly Lovers)
He worked for Factory (Original, not Texas Repo) from day one thru day demise, and has owned at least 3 ships at all times . He just loved extolling its virtues to spell-bound listeners like me, hanging on his every (heavily laden Okie accented) word of wisdom.
Another very helpful Guru/owner is in Alabama, and another at a Residentil airpark, 25 mi So of Denver
Please do E-Mail me ..glad to share names an addresses off Forum, and anything else I have squirrelled away
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B2B Picture...
For those of you wondering what I meant about inboard and outboard blades, take a close look at this photo and you'll see what I mean. Since most lift occurs on the outer portion of the blades, the B2B was designed with flapping and lead/lag hinges that bisect the larger inboard portion from the smaller outboard portion. In addition to the short mast, this seems to be the reason why vibrations are absorbed so much.
***edited to add photos and animation***
***edited to add photos and animation***
Last edited by RDRickster; 3rd Oct 2003 at 03:54.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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B2b Tre
Please stifle giggles of hysteria but I have just acquired a share in a Brantly B2B. Great idea for cheap flying I thought and believed that one of my co share owners would be able to gain himself the right to examine me on it.
Unfortunately the paper chase around the CAA has gone full circle and it now looks as if that route is not going to work.
I am told by the CAA that there isnt anyone on the register with a current TRE so it looks as if my investment will go to waste and for now I will have to return to the R22 I learnt on or find something more common.
Anyone any ideas on how I might get round this?. Anyone with experience of the B2B who can shed any light on how I might get an initial rating on type?.
Please respond to [email protected] or mobile 07802 611647
Unfortunately the paper chase around the CAA has gone full circle and it now looks as if that route is not going to work.
I am told by the CAA that there isnt anyone on the register with a current TRE so it looks as if my investment will go to waste and for now I will have to return to the R22 I learnt on or find something more common.
Anyone any ideas on how I might get round this?. Anyone with experience of the B2B who can shed any light on how I might get an initial rating on type?.
Please respond to [email protected] or mobile 07802 611647
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
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Although I know very little about the B2B, this sort of problem does happen from time to time. My experience has been that generally the CAA are fairly flexible. JAR FCL allows them to give anyone suitable a temporary TRE authorisation. So it is possible to go to the USA or wherever and get checked out/tested by someone who is fairly obviously equivalent to a TRE in the other country.
The probem these days, of course, is that this needs to be repeated for LPCs. It therefore makes sense if the person who goes and gets the special "test" will or can be authorised as a TRE in the UK subsequently.
Don't forget to try other JAR FCL countries for an existing B2B TRE.
The probem these days, of course, is that this needs to be repeated for LPCs. It therefore makes sense if the person who goes and gets the special "test" will or can be authorised as a TRE in the UK subsequently.
Don't forget to try other JAR FCL countries for an existing B2B TRE.
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No giggles from me...
formationfoto,
I've flown the B2B for a few hours, both day and night... just long enough to appreciate this ship. It is a real pleasure to fly. You will find a full review of that experience posted here (click link).
In the U.K., this is the only designated examiner I know of:
Mr Jon Lane
Heliflight (UK) Ltd
Gloucestershire Airport,
SE 36
Staverton
GL51 6SR
Tel 01452 714555
Fax01452 714666
[email protected]
There is also a forum for Brantly drivers (click here). I'm sure someone can help you out, as many of the Brantly Drivers are from Europe or the U.K. In the U.S., one of those folks had their DFE get a waiver from the FAA so he could perform the checkride. I'm sure this has come up before, and you could probably do the same.
Cheers!
I've flown the B2B for a few hours, both day and night... just long enough to appreciate this ship. It is a real pleasure to fly. You will find a full review of that experience posted here (click link).
In the U.K., this is the only designated examiner I know of:
Mr Jon Lane
Heliflight (UK) Ltd
Gloucestershire Airport,
SE 36
Staverton
GL51 6SR
Tel 01452 714555
Fax01452 714666
[email protected]
There is also a forum for Brantly drivers (click here). I'm sure someone can help you out, as many of the Brantly Drivers are from Europe or the U.K. In the U.S., one of those folks had their DFE get a waiver from the FAA so he could perform the checkride. I'm sure this has come up before, and you could probably do the same.
Cheers!
ff:
Try Elfan ap Rees at the Helicopter Museum, Weston super Mare - laziness stops me getting the phone number off the web site
He flies a Brantly and may be able to point you in the right direction.
Try Elfan ap Rees at the Helicopter Museum, Weston super Mare - laziness stops me getting the phone number off the web site
He flies a Brantly and may be able to point you in the right direction.
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One more thing...
Maintenance WILL be an issue for the B2B (the price you pay for one of the smoothest helicopters flying). Here's the U.K. Brantly Guru for maintenance...
S.N COLE AVIATION
West Batsworthy Farm
Rackenford
Tiverton
Exeter
EX16 8EG
Telephone: 44 (0) 1884 881205
Fax: 44 (0) 1884 881205
Contact: Jon Souch
[email protected]
Jon has a large stock of B-2B parts and a few 305 parts. They have parts from the smallest of bushings to main transmissions, 90' box's, intermediate box's, brand new upper & lower bubbles, even spray booms. They have been involved in the maintenance of the B-2B's since 1976.
S.N COLE AVIATION
West Batsworthy Farm
Rackenford
Tiverton
Exeter
EX16 8EG
Telephone: 44 (0) 1884 881205
Fax: 44 (0) 1884 881205
Contact: Jon Souch
[email protected]
Jon has a large stock of B-2B parts and a few 305 parts. They have parts from the smallest of bushings to main transmissions, 90' box's, intermediate box's, brand new upper & lower bubbles, even spray booms. They have been involved in the maintenance of the B-2B's since 1976.
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RDR
Thanks
Have been trying Jon Lane but not managed to contact him yet. At least this 'classic' is still being produced so parts should be slightly easier than some but good to know there is a UK based expert around.
Thanks
Have been trying Jon Lane but not managed to contact him yet. At least this 'classic' is still being produced so parts should be slightly easier than some but good to know there is a UK based expert around.
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Mr Selfish,
Granted, many of the 1960's era ships are a bit battered; however, the newly produced B2B used a Kevlar clutch, thumb controlled trim control, and replaces old instruments with new technology. Based on your comments, it seems unlikely that you have flown a late generation B2B.
As far as entry/egress is concerned, you can stop the blades and keep the engine running in less than 60 seconds. Since most pilots will completely shut down to put in their PAX, this is a real benefit. Also, I have to differ with you about the effectiveness of the rotor system. Since most lift occurs on the outer portion of the blades, it is a very effective system and completely eliminates the chances of ground resonance, air resonance, and mast bumping.
I will say that the TR effectiveness of the B2B is pretty weak compared to almost any other helicopter, but the flying characteristics more than make up for it past ETL. In fact, I'll bet you $20 you won't even be able to feel the transition through ETL in a well tracked and balanced Brantly (no shudder at all - not even a slight vibration). Compared to the R22, B47, and 280FX I've flown, the B2B has the hands down best autorotative glide and smoothest decent I've ever experienced.
Ugly? Yep... it is kinda ugly, but so is the Schweitzer in my opinion. I don't know why, the B47 seems to be the most "attractive" small helicopter out there. Hey, between your 2 cents and my 2 cents, maybe we can afford to buy a stick of chewing gum!
R2
Granted, many of the 1960's era ships are a bit battered; however, the newly produced B2B used a Kevlar clutch, thumb controlled trim control, and replaces old instruments with new technology. Based on your comments, it seems unlikely that you have flown a late generation B2B.
As far as entry/egress is concerned, you can stop the blades and keep the engine running in less than 60 seconds. Since most pilots will completely shut down to put in their PAX, this is a real benefit. Also, I have to differ with you about the effectiveness of the rotor system. Since most lift occurs on the outer portion of the blades, it is a very effective system and completely eliminates the chances of ground resonance, air resonance, and mast bumping.
I will say that the TR effectiveness of the B2B is pretty weak compared to almost any other helicopter, but the flying characteristics more than make up for it past ETL. In fact, I'll bet you $20 you won't even be able to feel the transition through ETL in a well tracked and balanced Brantly (no shudder at all - not even a slight vibration). Compared to the R22, B47, and 280FX I've flown, the B2B has the hands down best autorotative glide and smoothest decent I've ever experienced.
Ugly? Yep... it is kinda ugly, but so is the Schweitzer in my opinion. I don't know why, the B47 seems to be the most "attractive" small helicopter out there. Hey, between your 2 cents and my 2 cents, maybe we can afford to buy a stick of chewing gum!
R2
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Mr Selfish,
Nice, balanced viewpoint
You're not an aviation journalist are you?
Why would you need to get in and out of a piston helicopter when the blades are turning? Thats for passengers only, and as a pilot, I dont care what they do!
I think the B2B is sweet, much nicer than ANY turbine.....
There, thats balanced!
Nice, balanced viewpoint
You're not an aviation journalist are you?Why would you need to get in and out of a piston helicopter when the blades are turning? Thats for passengers only, and as a pilot, I dont care what they do!
I think the B2B is sweet, much nicer than ANY turbine.....
There, thats balanced!
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Hey TC,
What a lurvely frosty day, the Skids are what are better, nice and springy,
When I was in my learning days and flying in and out of EGGP, there was a B2B parked in the GA compound, with Rust sprouting from the rotor arms, the bitover the bubble that don' lift anything, just spins the outersectionof the blades, very odd Heli.
I seem to remember there is/or was a B2B Fi at one establishment there
What a lurvely frosty day, the Skids are what are better, nice and springy,
When I was in my learning days and flying in and out of EGGP, there was a B2B parked in the GA compound, with Rust sprouting from the rotor arms, the bitover the bubble that don' lift anything, just spins the outersectionof the blades, very odd Heli.
I seem to remember there is/or was a B2B Fi at one establishment there
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Brantly owner Nr Beccles.
Just a friendly suggestion to anyone who knows of this chap.
Local people are becoming increasingly irriated at the noise of this notoriously noisy helo that seems to regurlarly spend it's time blatting in circles again and again around the local area particurlarly at weekends.
Perhaps spreading the noise around the county, as opposed to the parish might be a bit more helpful to the overall image of aviation...
???
Local people are becoming increasingly irriated at the noise of this notoriously noisy helo that seems to regurlarly spend it's time blatting in circles again and again around the local area particurlarly at weekends.
Perhaps spreading the noise around the county, as opposed to the parish might be a bit more helpful to the overall image of aviation...
???