UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread
Further to Bluenose's comment:
Anger at Kinloss rescue-helicopter control centre move to south coast
Anger at Kinloss rescue-helicopter control centre move to south coast
The coalition Government has announced that the air rescue control centre will be moved from Moray in Scotland to Fareham in Hampshire and combined with the National Maritime Operations Centre.
The Aeronautical Rescue and Co-ordination Centre at Kinloss is responsible for mobilising the RAF, Royal Navy and Coastguard helicopters that are used in mountain rescues throughout Britain.
The move comes as the date for the privatisation of the UK’s search and rescue helicopter service approaches. The ageing Sea Kings used by the RAF and Royal Navy will be replaced by new aircraft under a contract with US company Bristow and will carry the livery of the Coastguard.
The first new helicopters are due to enter service next year.
The Westminster Government said: “The relocation of the ARCC to the National Maritime Operations Centre at Fareham will combine the aeronautical and maritime rescue co-ordination functions, resulting in a better service for those in distress.
“The new UK search and rescue service will use brand-new faster helicopters to cut average response times and providing a more reliable overall service.”
But the Scottish National Party condemned the move, calling it devastating for the staff involved.
Westminster SNP leader and defence spokesman Angus Robertson MP, whose Moray constituency is home to Kinloss Barracks and the rescue centre, said: “This is devastating news for the personnel at Kinloss, for Moray and for Scotland more generally.
“It is the latest in a series of disproportionate MoD cuts to defence bases, capabilities and personnel.
“Two out three Scottish airbases have been cut, the entire maritime patrol fleet has been scrapped and we have the lowest military personnel numbers in Scotland in living memory.
“That the closure announcement is happening in the middle of a life-threatening storm and comes only weeks after the independence referendum tells you much about the cynical approach of the MoD and the UK government.”
The ARCC scrambles the military Sea King helicopters and communicates with the voluntary mountain rescue teams and other civilian search and rescue teams who can request assistance from the aircraft.
The Aeronautical Rescue and Co-ordination Centre at Kinloss is responsible for mobilising the RAF, Royal Navy and Coastguard helicopters that are used in mountain rescues throughout Britain.
The move comes as the date for the privatisation of the UK’s search and rescue helicopter service approaches. The ageing Sea Kings used by the RAF and Royal Navy will be replaced by new aircraft under a contract with US company Bristow and will carry the livery of the Coastguard.
The first new helicopters are due to enter service next year.
The Westminster Government said: “The relocation of the ARCC to the National Maritime Operations Centre at Fareham will combine the aeronautical and maritime rescue co-ordination functions, resulting in a better service for those in distress.
“The new UK search and rescue service will use brand-new faster helicopters to cut average response times and providing a more reliable overall service.”
But the Scottish National Party condemned the move, calling it devastating for the staff involved.
Westminster SNP leader and defence spokesman Angus Robertson MP, whose Moray constituency is home to Kinloss Barracks and the rescue centre, said: “This is devastating news for the personnel at Kinloss, for Moray and for Scotland more generally.
“It is the latest in a series of disproportionate MoD cuts to defence bases, capabilities and personnel.
“Two out three Scottish airbases have been cut, the entire maritime patrol fleet has been scrapped and we have the lowest military personnel numbers in Scotland in living memory.
“That the closure announcement is happening in the middle of a life-threatening storm and comes only weeks after the independence referendum tells you much about the cynical approach of the MoD and the UK government.”
The ARCC scrambles the military Sea King helicopters and communicates with the voluntary mountain rescue teams and other civilian search and rescue teams who can request assistance from the aircraft.
Let's hope they have a better computer system than NATS at Swanwick
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That the closure announcement is happening in the middle of a life-threatening storm and comes only weeks after the independence referendum tells you much about the cynical approach of the MoD and the UK government.
He doesn't mention how the SNP would have paid for its own SAR service with oil at $60/barrel compared to their calculations of $110. The lovely Miss Sturgeon is also very quiet about this. The ARCC was always going to move.
I hope the HMCG can use the expertise available from Kinloss as they have a lot to live up to.
I hope the HMCG can use the expertise available from Kinloss as they have a lot to live up to.
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Highly unlikely. To expect personnel to transfer to HMCG and relocate from Moray to the (vastly more expensive) south coast for the salaries that are on offer means this is not a realistic scenario. They'll be on their own post-transition, fingers crossed they'll recruit some high calibre people from the local catchment area.
The ARCC was always going to move.
Typical politics and press trying to cast their own views on things and stir everything.
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Considering the MCA are making a complete "Horlicks" of their own "Future Coastguard" re-organisation (don't expect them to publicly confirm this!) , I worry about the new setup for the ARCC. Especially if the MCA cannot get over their "if it doesn't happen on the South coast it's irrelevant" bias.
Considering the MCA are making a complete "Horlicks" of their own "Future Coastguard" re-organisation (don't expect them to publicly confirm this!) , I worry about the new setup for the ARCC. Especially if the MCA cannot get over their "if it doesn't happen on the South coast it's irrelevant" bias.
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Considering the MCA are making a complete "Horlicks" of their own "Future Coastguard" re-organisation (don't expect them to publicly confirm this!) , I worry about the new setup for the ARCC. Especially if the MCA cannot get over their "if it doesn't happen on the South coast it's irrelevant" bias.
Not everyone/everything is perfect. That's life.
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That'll be ok then - carry on!
All this chat about privatisation and ARCC being handed over to civvies, the fact of the matter is there are daily failings with RAF ARCC so handing it over to civvies to make daily failings isn't much of a change.
handing it over to civvies to make daily failings
(By 'old' I mean experienced of course!
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A few pages back it was discovered that even a large bodied S92 SAR variant could only seat 9 persons in the cabin. How this is the case is anybody's guess and unlikely to be revealed by the very reticent civsar fraternity. From that though and from other PPRuNe discussions that have been had, we can deduce that to put it mildly, meeting the contract specifications AND carrying all the necessary role and medical equipment for the UK SAR environment is going to be a bit of a squeeze for the AW189.
Therefore it is a racing certainty that the AW139 is not going to be able to meet that minimum cabin carrying capacity requirement. So my question for those that know about these things - who pays the penalty? Bristow every time they put an aircraft on the flight line that is below the minimum capacity specified or Agusta Westland for not producing the 189 on time? How hefty are the penalties likely to be? We may be talking about more than just a few months here.
Therefore it is a racing certainty that the AW139 is not going to be able to meet that minimum cabin carrying capacity requirement. So my question for those that know about these things - who pays the penalty? Bristow every time they put an aircraft on the flight line that is below the minimum capacity specified or Agusta Westland for not producing the 189 on time? How hefty are the penalties likely to be? We may be talking about more than just a few months here.
In the contract as published, there are definitions of availability and other contract measurements including aircraft availability at 8.2 but all the interesting numbers and definitions are redacted.
I know there are ppruners who know this stuff in detail but I am not expecting them to blow their cover.
Two now, two later.
As a matter of interest, where would the interested parties here go instead of the AW189, if they had a free hand? The un-writern part in the request for tender was two different types, one to be built in UK and of course the size. It doesn't give much room for manuever.
No, but I have heard a rumour that the 189's performance, especially with the higher AUM brought about by the added fuel tank, might not be what people were expecting - could make it interesting in the mountains in Summer
As for the ARCCK, they might not be perfect but for the most part they do a very good job - will we be saying the same thing about the MCA centre if and when it is up and running? Part of the ARCCK's problems have been getting SAR experienced controllers, especially those with helicopter experience - where are the MCA going to get any aviation SAR experience from?
As for the ARCCK, they might not be perfect but for the most part they do a very good job - will we be saying the same thing about the MCA centre if and when it is up and running? Part of the ARCCK's problems have been getting SAR experienced controllers, especially those with helicopter experience - where are the MCA going to get any aviation SAR experience from?