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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Old 28th Oct 2014, 16:48
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
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Some lovely sentiment in there but SARS is a disease and the RAF fly Mk 3 and 3A Sea Kings

TOTD - any guess how long it takes to convert pilots onto type and then into SAR role on an S92? It's certainly not as short as a month for either element
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 17:20
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
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Not to mention the time taken to convert to the great unmentionables - goggles.


You would think that training staff would need at least three months with the aircraft to work out SOPs before they start training the front line crews.


How is NVG training going on the GAP SAR contract anyway?


Latest News - bristowgroup.com


"Bristow invested in the latest night vision goggle technology in order to give the Gap SAR crews the very best equipment to be able to operate safely. Our new S-92 search and rescue aircraft are the first type in Europe to be certified for night vision goggle (NVG) technology."

With the long dark nights of winter coming they must be glad they've got their goggles. Or am I mistaken? Surely it's true if it appears on the website.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 17:22
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by snaggletooth View Post
Great and informative reply Jim. What is sonas's beef I wonder?

For heaven's sake snaggle, don't mention beef in relation to Coastguard helicopters!
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 17:29
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vie sans frontieres View Post
Not to mention the time taken to convert to the great unmentionables - goggles.


You would think that training staff would need at least three months with the aircraft to work out SOPs before they start training the front line crews.


How is NVG training going on the GAP SAR contract anyway?


Latest News - bristowgroup.com


"Bristow invested in the latest night vision goggle technology in order to give the Gap SAR crews the very best equipment to be able to operate safely. Our new S-92 search and rescue aircraft are the first type in Europe to be certified for night vision goggle (NVG) technology."

With the long dark nights of winter coming they must be glad they've got their goggles. Or am I mistaken? Surely it's true if it appears on the website.

Ah, the great unmentionables!

At last, we're on the same page on something important Vie.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 17:44
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
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Someone will come along now and say that NVG was not a requirement of the GAP SAR contract - which is correct.


In which case, why brag about it and tell everyone that you're going the extra mile and converting to NVG early, over and above the contract specifications? If it was to ensure that operational crews were experienced in using NVG on type come April 1st then great, what a sensible idea. However, would someone would like to tell us how much NVG flying has been done on the GAP SAR contract so far? (I think we know the answer.)
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 18:24
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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Devil

NVG, who mentioned NVG!!!!

Training not planned to commence until January, crews only training while on duty, using an aircraft with no winch.

Try the cheapest not up to date NVG technology for that too.....

What was that about cost saving??

And don't mention the beef, Navy Torque can't defend himself now he's been banned from the forum......
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 18:34
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sumpor Stylee View Post
NVG, who mentioned NVG...!!!!

Training not planned to commence until January, crews only training while on duty, using an aircraft with no winch........

Try the cheapest not up to date NVG technology for that too.....

What was that about cost saving??

SS, I know you are only 3, but let's try to keep it real. The cheapest NVIS is 99 from Lidl. What Bristow are using is top-end ITAR-controlled commercially available at time of purchase. And SAR Force aircrew don't have the very latest Generation either.

====================

Vie, I think I know the answer too.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 20:21
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
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https://bristowgroup.taleo.net/caree....ftl?job=49560
Seems they are looking for a SAR training manager - can't believe they haven't already got that filled - probably just advertising for the sake of legality.

Would be interesting to see the CV of the winning candidate
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 21:27
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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Training not planned to commence until January, crews only training while on duty, using an aircraft with no winch.
Is there not an NVG training course? At the promised training school? Or are they just going to give it a go and see what happens? If they go about it that way I shudder to think what's going to happen. NVG merits about a month of training for those that haven't used them before and certainly about a fortnight for those that have but not on type.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 21:43
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
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Devil

Since you know so much Jim then tell us what NVG setup is being used as you clearly are at the hub of Bristow's operation....?

The statement published "latest" technology so the query stands.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 21:50
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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Seems they are looking for a SAR training manager - can't believe they haven't already got that filled -
Surely that Scandinavian magician?
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 22:22
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
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SitRep

As someone who is only an occasional visitor to this thread, my reading of the last few pages suggests the preparations for the imminent SAR contract are running smoothly apart from the following minor points:


1. The AW189 will be late and the crews originally scheduled to fly them are hastily being retrained on the S-92.


2. When the AW189 is certificated, the temporary S-92 crews will be retrained on the AW189.


3. One of the original proposed bases (Manston) is now unavailable and an alternative has yet to be found.


4. The SAR Training Manager has yet to be nominated.


Is that a fair assessment of the ground truth?
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 23:29
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sumpor Stylee View Post
Since you know so much Jim then tell us what NVG setup is being used as you clearly are at the hub of Bristow's operation....?

The statement published "latest" technology so the query stands.

This stuff is about what you are allowed to buy, where you are allowed to go with it and what you are allowed to do with it.

If you are amongst the favoured special people then you get to buy some of the better Generation 3 Thin Film NVIS. These are not on the internet pricelist. When you are allowed to buy them you bite their hand off in spite of the price because tomorrow some f3ckw1t might start a war and then you'll have to wait years for the good kit.
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Old 29th Oct 2014, 00:08
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Clever Richard View Post
As someone who is only an occasional visitor to this thread, my reading of the last few pages suggests the preparations for the imminent SAR contract are running smoothly apart from the following minor points:

1. The AW189 will be late and the crews originally scheduled to fly them are hastily being retrained on the S-92.

2. When the AW189 is certificated, the temporary S-92 crews will be retrained on the AW189.

3. One of the original proposed bases (Manston) is now unavailable and an alternative has yet to be found.

4. The SAR Training Manager has yet to be nominated.

Is that a fair assessment of the ground truth?
1. Minor aspects of the AW189 were always going to be late without impacting entry into SAR service. Not many now betting on AW189 at Inverness on April Fools Day. Many of the aircrew are expected to be the highly-capable Bristow Transition Team who are experienced S-92 guys anyway and can fill the gap until the Managed Transition aircrew are trained.

2. Inevitably. Any with AW139 type-rating will be on a short program.

4. Early Bristow publicity about the UK SAR team listed Paul Richardson as Training Manager but he's an engineering guy. Also Tony Campbell as SAR Rearcrew Training Coordinator. Rowan Greenwood joined in June from the CAA in a training role but is now Director Global SAR Operations.

Last edited by jimf671; 29th Oct 2014 at 00:53.
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Old 29th Oct 2014, 07:35
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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What Bristow are using is top-end ITAR-controlled commercially available at time of purchase.
Jimf671

You're doing it again. Quoting what you've seen in a press release, a website or a glossy brochure and re-broadcasting it as gospel. Have you actually seen these 'top-end' NVG? Sumpor Stylee seems pretty close to the action and he/she appears to be suggesting that what they're planning on using are anything but 'top end'.
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Old 29th Oct 2014, 11:27
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
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Not a bit of it Vie.

I did refer to the notes I have on file from a telecon of 2012.


Vie, nobody outside of a few specialist military units, mainly in the USA, gets to use the world's best NVIS. The important thing about NVIS is not that you can see in the dark but that the Taliban don't get them. ITAR controls this and not cash.

60k will put very good goggles on 4 civilian heads if you are in an allied country and can demonstrate the correct controls. Then there are the power supplies, some display mods and the extra warning devices required by the regulators. Chicken-feed when compared with the cost of initial and continuing training across 10 or 11 years of aviation operations.

And SAR Force aren't using the world's best NVIS either. (And the poor sods on the ground are still using grotty old kit most of the time too. Ughhh.)
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Old 29th Oct 2014, 11:53
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
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And SAR Force aren't using the world's best NVIS either
maybe not but they are pretty damn good and a whole lot better than not using them at all
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Old 29th Oct 2014, 11:57
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
... a whole lot better than not using them at all
Gets my vote.
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Old 29th Oct 2014, 11:57
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
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So to cut a long story short, you haven't seen them. They were described as 'the latest night vision technology', you were told they were 'top end' and what do you know. They may not be after all.
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Old 29th Oct 2014, 14:20
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
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TOTD - any guess how long it takes to convert pilots onto type and then into SAR role on an S92? It's certainly not as short as a month for either element
My guess is 0 weeks and 0 days because I have heard (though I haven't seen with my own eyes so it may not be true ) that Bristow may have some S-92 SAR crews already. So, will it take 5 months to convert S-92 SAR crews onto NVG? I think not. And if the NVG training isn't complete by 1 April 15, will it stop Lossie closing? We'll see...
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