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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Old 5th May 2019, 18:26
  #2761 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
...though he has never worked in either organisation. ... ....
Fascinating.
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Old 5th May 2019, 18:32
  #2762 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
... ... ... I know how well our rearcrew were trained and they earned every pound of their non-market force pay. ... ... ...
I know from the ICAR Air Commission reviews of accidents that because of the legacy that Crab's former colleagues bring to the present arrangements, SAR TC, SAR partners, and distressed persons are safer on the wire here than anywhere in the world.
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Old 6th May 2019, 02:35
  #2763 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Well, your version seems different from others - i don't know what your Ts and Cs were and are - what are you earning there now?

Did CB change the salary offer after the second stage of interview? I didn't get there thankfully but the £95K for SAR Captains was what was touted - if they didn't deliver that, I am even happier not to have got a job with them.
It needs to be pointed out that the figure quoted here by Crab is entirely consistent with the salary range posted by another PPRuNe regular on this thread four and half years ago.
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Old 6th May 2019, 16:26
  #2764 (permalink)  
 
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So yours wasn't fake news Jim and neither was mine - don't suppose we'll get a retraction of the 'utter rubbish' notices..........................
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Old 6th May 2019, 16:59
  #2765 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
So yours wasn't fake news Jim and neither was mine - don't suppose we'll get a retraction of the 'utter rubbish' notices..........................
Not from me. The half dozen pilots who joined when I did were nowhere near that figure. So no retraction from me. But in any case I would have to go some to match the rubbish that some people produce on here.
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Old 6th May 2019, 17:55
  #2766 (permalink)  
 
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You didn't say whether you were up at that level now nor answered the question about being a captain or co-pilot when you joined. Which flight did you leave from?

You clearly know me but I have no idea who you are. Most captains I know were offered the salaries I have referred to - if the offer was changed post 2nd interview then I didn't hear about it.

One problem is that people, quite understandably, don't want to put 'sensitive' information on here for fear of censure from the management.
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Old 7th May 2019, 07:30
  #2767 (permalink)  
 
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Crab,

At second interview the salary offer for captain was £84,000 with co pilots offered £69,000, at the time in line with N sea salaries. Not a huge step up for a top level PAS pilot but a considerable jump for junior officers who mostly went to the LHS.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:40
  #2768 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting - so they did drop the salaries between interviews............
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:30
  #2769 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Interesting - so they did drop the salaries between interviews............
Nonsense. The only person who mentioned 95k is you, and that was as a “ISTR”. You’ve been bashing Bristow since 2013, at least keep to the facts.
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:45
  #2770 (permalink)  
 
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Now you get the 'utter rubbish' award DDW, all of us were told the salaries that I have quoted at the initial meet and greet with BRS and subsequently at the first interview - it's not the sort of thing I would make up FFS.

It's all anyone talked about in the crewrooms for months and they are the same figures that were part of SARF briefings as well.

Perhaps you don't have regular contact with current and ex-Bristow employees but I do and most of what I bashed them about has been borne out by the commercial realities of privatising UKSAR. Why is there a growing shortage of rearcrew if everything is so rosy?
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Old 7th May 2019, 13:08
  #2771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Now you get the 'utter rubbish' award DDW, all of us were told the salaries that I have quoted at the initial meet and greet with BRS and subsequently at the first interview - it's not the sort of thing I would make up FFS.

It's all anyone talked about in the crewrooms for months and they are the same figures that were part of SARF briefings as well.

Perhaps you don't have regular contact with current and ex-Bristow employees but I do and most of what I bashed them about has been borne out by the commercial realities of privatising UKSAR. Why is there a growing shortage of rearcrew if everything is so rosy?
Thanks for that award Crab - I’ll treasure it.

No one I know ever mentioned 95k and it was certainly not offered it in an interview.

I dont dispute the tech crew pay issue, merely I dispute you fanning [email protected] flames as to how much pilots get paid to stir things up. You’ve been stirring things up for years, I recall several civilian colleagues incensed with the things you wrote, and I can see why after reviewing it. You don’t need to aggravate people to make a point, indeed, if you refrain from aggravation, more people may listen.

No doubt tech crew recruitment is an issue now, how could it not be now the pool has dried up. But don’t pretend military SAR was rosy in this department. I can tell you this: three man crews are sometimes inevitable due to short notice sickness, but they were PLANNED by the mil towards the end. And no tech crew are going to be flogged to death like many were at the end of the military, shifts back to back or long drives to other bases at no notice, with a limited option to say ‘no’.

A large scale SAR operation is always going to have challenges but let’s not pretend all was ‘rosy’ in the good old days. Sticking to facts is a good starting point.
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Old 7th May 2019, 17:26
  #2772 (permalink)  
 
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I think you make some good points DDW, particularly regarding the standards our dear friend the MoD was achieving during some later periods of the service. I am not averse to whipping off the rose tinted specs and stamping on them.

Regarding salary ranges, the figures that have stuck in my mind, been quoted by Crab, and been quoted by others on this forum, have tended to be the top end of what, inevitably, is a range. And while the PA Scale range is a large, all-encompassing aircrew range of £37000, the BHL salary ranges are going to be more specific narrower ranges.

What we also have to take on board is that the numbers Crab and colleagues were given at the first approach were during a period when O&G was still awash with money and helicopter crew change in all territories was raking it in. Fast forward to April Fool's Day 2015 and the oil price was halved before spending the next year nearly halving again. Pencils were getting sharpened at both ends and used to write on both sides of the paper. Sacrifices were being asked.

So take the pilot top numbers (maybe chief pilot top numbers) and put a range downwards of £20k? £25k? Think of the SAR TC numbers as having a range of £12k maybe? Then think sacrifices being asked all round. Maybe the numbers make more sense like that.

None of that changes what some Master Aircrew are making on PA Scales. Nor does it change how little a first tour freshly qualified milSAR co-pilot might have been making while being accelerated toward captaincy.
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Old 7th May 2019, 17:27
  #2773 (permalink)  
 
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DDW - you know as well as I that the rearcrew shortage in RAF SAR was a combination of under-resourcing the OCU by stealing the aircraft for front-line and the SH force flatly refusing to release people from Chinooks who had been ragged with multiple tours in the 'Stan.

Poor management, certainly, by a tranche of senior officers and I am acutely aware of the problems it caused as my Sqn Trg team were repeatedly dragged off their primary role (and leave and courses) to try and fill the gaps.

Don't ignore the fact that the shortages were a long time in the making - you can go back to the initial decision to privatise SAR in, ISTR 2004/5, which started the change in priority for UKSAR - Bristow have managed their own TC shortage in 3 years all by themselves.

You say you never heard £95K - I know I did as did a great many others - we will have to agree to disagree but I even remember Captains talking about what they were going to do with the extra money.

I don't have to care if some of your colleagues are upset, all my criticisms were founded on truth and based on the accounts of very trustworthy people - people didn't listen then because they didn't want to so why should I think anyone will listen now? If the future of UKSAR depends on what I post on PPRuNe then we really are up sh*t creek.

The CG service is populated by top-drawer individuals and has some of the best equipment going - it should be a completely self-sustaining model of success with no doubts cast over the future of the next contract - but we are where we are - I still have the utmost respect for those doing the job, I am far too old for those 2 am callouts in sh*te weather and I am always glad to be tucked up in my bed when I hear the Newquay crew go out on a dark and stormy night.
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Old 8th May 2019, 09:53
  #2774 (permalink)  
 
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PS DDW - just as a PS, I conducted a straw poll of the crewroom and the consensus is that my assertion about the £95K is both accurate in terms of what was touted by BRS in the roadshows and 1st interviews and also entirely representative of a SAR Captain's salary now.
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Old 11th May 2019, 22:22
  #2775 (permalink)  
 
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"This bankruptcy filing is limited in its scope and only includes six U.S. entities, including Bristow Group Inc., our parent company, and two Cayman Islands companies. The bankruptcy filing does not impact any of our other U.S. or non-U.S. companies."

So a repeat of the CHC Ireland experience for UK SAR.

(Deepest sympathies to any poor soul who has recently moved from CHC Ireland SAR to BHL UK SAR. That is going to feel like the world is out to get you.)
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Old 12th May 2019, 10:35
  #2776 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jimf671 View Post
"This bankruptcy filing is limited in its scope and only includes six U.S. entities, including Bristow Group Inc., our parent company, and two Cayman Islands companies. The bankruptcy filing does not impact any of our other U.S. or non-U.S. companies."

So a repeat of the CHC Ireland experience for UK SAR.

(Deepest sympathies to any poor soul who has recently moved from CHC Ireland SAR to BHL UK SAR. That is going to feel like the world is out to get you.)
Can you give a summary of the effects of Cp 11 on Irish SAR?
This might be a good indication of what is ahead for all “non-affected” Bristow entities?

SLB
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Old 12th May 2019, 12:00
  #2777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Self loading bear View Post


Can you give a summary of the effects of Cp 11 on Irish SAR?
This might be a good indication of what is ahead for all “non-affected” Bristow entities?

SLB
I suspect there wasn't anything substantial, other than perhaps more scrutiny on discretionary spend. Also some suppliers might start being wary about bills not being paid?

Let's see if someone from CHC Ireland can add any more.
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Old 12th May 2019, 14:04
  #2778 (permalink)  
 
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Under Ch11 the supplier bills should be paid normally, although I also have heard from an offshore supplier would was cut quite an amount on his bills by an offshore driller under Ch11. But that could have been his own fault that he was let to believe that payment of suppliers was negotiable under Ch11.


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Old 24th Jul 2019, 20:17
  #2779 (permalink)  
 
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The jury is in.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...copter-service

- HLS infrastructure

- Aircrew continuity

- Ambulance co-ordination

Didn't we know about these back in about 2012????
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 12:01
  #2780 (permalink)  
 
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Please excuse my ignorance but who checks the standards / capability of the SAR provision now?
I believe that there was the Standards Flight in the Mil days but does the ‘customer’ get to review/audit these days?
I do not mean from the value for money perspective but the quality of provision - although I accept the two are intertwined,
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