EMS helicopter down Oklahoma
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I would think that an impact strong enough to break the stinger off the tail could also rupture the fuel tank which would cause the fire
So it must have hit the ground pretty hard.
They carried one of the severely injured away before the craft became completely ingulfed in flames. According to the passerby they had trouble putting the fire out on the one survivor's body as he kept reigniting from the fuel soaked clothing. They got no response from the other two.
So you just have to guess it was appox a couple of minutes after impact and respond before the fire had grown enough to force them away.
Doubtful that O2 would have been a cause of the incident.
VFD
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From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Anyone know what direction they were going in relation to where it came to rest?
A relative large airfield was 2.5 miles due south of the accident site, Wiley Post Airport (KPWA). Although Wiley Post is a controlled airport, the tower was closed, it does not open until 06:00.
For those that are seemingly focusing on an O2 fire in the cabin, I would caution you that there is no confirmation that there was a fire in the cabin. Two other witnesses have come forward and neither of them reported seeing such.
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Witnesses statement
Lemishko said witnesses saw a flash of some kind coming from the helicopter before it started to descend.
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From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
I am no more saying that there was a fire in the cabin, than I am saying was no fire in the cabin. It is just that this point, it cannot be taken for granted.
In one accident report I studied at the NTSB school, a "flash" was observed coming from the aircraft just prior to impact. The flash turned out to be the strobe light.
Sometimes if one places too much importance on an eyewitness report, other factors can be overlooked. There are eyewitnesses that have not a clue about aircraft, then there are eyewitnesses that are professionals in aviation. Unfortunately usually it is the former that witness the vast majority of aircraft accidents.
Lemishko said witnesses saw a flash of some kind coming from the helicopter before it started to descend. The NTSB is looking into anything that could have caused the a flash to come from the aircraft, but said that the flash is just "one small piece of the puzzle."
Sometimes if one places too much importance on an eyewitness report, other factors can be overlooked. There are eyewitnesses that have not a clue about aircraft, then there are eyewitnesses that are professionals in aviation. Unfortunately usually it is the former that witness the vast majority of aircraft accidents.
Last edited by con-pilot; 25th February 2013 at 17:30.
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From: Philadelphia PA
Even on-board 'witnesses' can be severely wrong. I recall one accident where the lone survivor said 'we must have hit an unlit crane' when every other piece of data (radar, GPS, lack of damage to cranes, lack of damage to airframe and rotors) said there was no crane involved.
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From: Sale, Australia
For those that are seemingly focusing on an O2 fire in the cabin, I would caution you that there is no confirmation that there was a fire in the cabin
Sometimes if one places too much importance on an eyewitness report
Type of aircraft? Answer F-86, Wrong - actually a G91
Cause of accident? Answer engine fire ("smoke" seen throughout take off roll) Wrong - "smoke" was spray from a water drenched runway. And so it went on.
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Early on in the thread.....Con Pilot told us local news reports had reported witnesses saying there was a cabin fire....and noted how unreliable such reports can be.
I then brought up the topic of O2 Fires as one possibility for a cabin fire.
If anyone stretched that to being the cause of this crash....that is on them as at this point none of us have any idea what caused this tragedy.
I then brought up the topic of O2 Fires as one possibility for a cabin fire.
If anyone stretched that to being the cause of this crash....that is on them as at this point none of us have any idea what caused this tragedy.
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From: Australia
Condolences to all.
When getting endorsed on machines there is always something that sticks firmly in the cranium.
In my instance on this type I was sternly administered to, "take care in case of engine fire," and what to do about it quick time with various pointed references to the onboard fire extinguisher, its accessibility and currency date.
. I was berated with, "it has been known to happen more than once". Observe eyes rolled etc.
But of course I am suggesting nothing,
However I did carefully observe thereafter several quite hard fluid and air lines in the upper baggage compartment, quite some with fraying and small leaks as the particular aircraft was close in time to the big tear down inspection.
When getting endorsed on machines there is always something that sticks firmly in the cranium.
In my instance on this type I was sternly administered to, "take care in case of engine fire," and what to do about it quick time with various pointed references to the onboard fire extinguisher, its accessibility and currency date.
. I was berated with, "it has been known to happen more than once". Observe eyes rolled etc.
But of course I am suggesting nothing,
However I did carefully observe thereafter several quite hard fluid and air lines in the upper baggage compartment, quite some with fraying and small leaks as the particular aircraft was close in time to the big tear down inspection.
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From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
And some of the very worse witnesses are fellow aviators. Remember during an accident investigators course we were shown a film of an aircraft taking off and subsequently crashing, and were asked questions as "expert" witnesses.
Type of aircraft? Answer F-86, Wrong - actually a G91
Type of aircraft? Answer F-86, Wrong - actually a G91
We were only told to watch the video, nothing else was said, after watching the video for about three minutes, as the group of racing aircraft entered a pylon turn, a wing came off one of the aircraft. The instructor immediately stopped the video and asked, "Which wing separated from the aircraft?"
Three fourths of the class got it wrong.
Now admittedly the entire class was not composed of pilots, actually very few of the class were pilots, but all were aviation professionals. As it turned out, I was the only pilot that got the correct wing the first time.
The point I was attempting to make is, if an accident was witnessed by a school teacher, a policeman and an active professional pilot with years of experience, the testimony of the professional pilot would be given a little more credit. Never the less, all three statements would be investigated.
Oh, believe it nor not, the pilot survived the accident.
Last edited by con-pilot; 26th February 2013 at 17:11.
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From: USA
From the preliminary report:
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...2013120000.pdf
A person who was driving in the vicinity of the accident site reported that he distinctly observed a "flash" in the sky in front of him. After the flash, he saw the helicopter in an increasingly rapid descent before it disappeared behind buildings. He then drove toward an area where smoke was emanating and saw that the helicopter was on fire in the parking lot of St. Ann’s. He immediately assisted others (St. Ann’s employees) in pulling the surviving paramedic away from the burning aircraft.
Fixed video surveillance cameras located on a building adjacent to the parking lot showed the last few seconds of the helicopter descending toward the ground. The video showed that the helicopter burst into flames upon impact. From the initial impact point, the debris path was approximately 75 feet in length, on a heading of 065 degrees magnetic. All of the impact signatures were consistent with a right side low (approximate 40 degree) attitude, with a high rate of descent. Using the geometry of impact signatures and adjacent structures clearance, the helicopter’s angle of descent was approximately 25 degrees.
Fixed video surveillance cameras located on a building adjacent to the parking lot showed the last few seconds of the helicopter descending toward the ground. The video showed that the helicopter burst into flames upon impact. From the initial impact point, the debris path was approximately 75 feet in length, on a heading of 065 degrees magnetic. All of the impact signatures were consistent with a right side low (approximate 40 degree) attitude, with a high rate of descent. Using the geometry of impact signatures and adjacent structures clearance, the helicopter’s angle of descent was approximately 25 degrees.
