EMS helicopter down Oklahoma
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EMS helicopter down Oklahoma
An EMS helicopter ( AS 350 ) crashed in Oklahoma, two fatal and one injured.
Helicopter Crashes Near NW Expressway, Killing 2 - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |
skadi
Helicopter Crashes Near NW Expressway, Killing 2 - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |
skadi
Last edited by skadi; 22nd Feb 2013 at 13:10.
Interesting photo.....shows all three Main Rotor Blades pretty much intact and a mostly intact tail rotor blade.
Last edited by SASless; 22nd Feb 2013 at 13:24.
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This one happened almost in my back yard, literally. Less than a half mile, from their departure point to the accident site, the route of flight would have been right over our house. I did not hear the accident for a couple of reason, one I was sound asleep and secondly our house is so well insulated we cannot hardly hear anything from inside the house. I never heard any of the emergency equipment responding to the scene, but the local news helicopters did finally wake me up just after sunrise.
Sad event for sure. I have not bothered to go to the site and will not do so, seen enough accident sites in my life/career.
Two fatal, one survivor, no report on how serious the survivor is injured.
Sad event for sure. I have not bothered to go to the site and will not do so, seen enough accident sites in my life/career.
Two fatal, one survivor, no report on how serious the survivor is injured.
Nurses from the Nursing home on the rushed to the crash and pulled out the sole survivor before a secondary explosion consumed the fuselage.
Why do all ASTARS seem to end up as a pile of ashes?
The Sultan
Why do all ASTARS seem to end up as a pile of ashes?
The Sultan
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Very sad - RIP to the crew.
I see sunrise in Oklahoma at the moment is 7.06am so it was clearly 'Night'. Con-pilot: any first hand info on the weather this morning?
I see sunrise in Oklahoma at the moment is 7.06am so it was clearly 'Night'. Con-pilot: any first hand info on the weather this morning?
Last edited by SARWannabe; 22nd Feb 2013 at 17:20.
WX NOT a factor:
22 07:53 NW 9 9.00 Fair CLR 20 13 74% 10 NA 30.10 1020.6
22 06:53 NW 7 10.00 Fair CLR 20 13 74% 11 NA 30.08 1019.8
22 05:53 NW 8 10.00 Fair CLR 20 13 23 74% 10 NA 30.04 1018.6
22 04:53 N 12 10.00 Fair CLR 20 13 74% 8 NA 30.02 1017.7
22 03:53 NW 10 10.00 Fair CLR 21 14 74% 10 NA 30.00 1016.9
22 02:53 NW 12 G 21 10.00 Fair CLR 22 14 71% 10 NA 30.00 1016.9
22 01:53 NW 8 10.00 Fair CLR 22 14 71% 13 NA 30.03 1017.8
22 00:53 NW 13 10.00 Fair CLR 23 15 72% 11 NA 30.02 1017.6
21 23:53 NW 9 10.00 Fair CLR 23 15 35 72% 13 NA 30.00 1016.9
22 07:53 NW 9 9.00 Fair CLR 20 13 74% 10 NA 30.10 1020.6
22 06:53 NW 7 10.00 Fair CLR 20 13 74% 11 NA 30.08 1019.8
22 05:53 NW 8 10.00 Fair CLR 20 13 23 74% 10 NA 30.04 1018.6
22 04:53 N 12 10.00 Fair CLR 20 13 74% 8 NA 30.02 1017.7
22 03:53 NW 10 10.00 Fair CLR 21 14 74% 10 NA 30.00 1016.9
22 02:53 NW 12 G 21 10.00 Fair CLR 22 14 71% 10 NA 30.00 1016.9
22 01:53 NW 8 10.00 Fair CLR 22 14 71% 13 NA 30.03 1017.8
22 00:53 NW 13 10.00 Fair CLR 23 15 72% 11 NA 30.02 1017.6
21 23:53 NW 9 10.00 Fair CLR 23 15 35 72% 13 NA 30.00 1016.9
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Con-pilot: any first hand info on the weather this morning?
It is now being reported on the local news stations that there was a fire in the cabin before the crash. Take that as you may, as I have read and been on accident sites where the aircraft was reported on fire before the accident, but when on scene, there was no sign of a post accident fire, let alone one airborne. So I don't put a lot of faith in these types of reports.
The accident site is approximately 2.5 miles north from Wiley Post Airport (KPWA). The airport is controlled, but at that time in the morning, the tower is closed. So whatever happend, it happend fast for them not to it make to Wiley Post, just two and a half miles away.
O2 fires have killed crews before.....one that stands out is the Greenville, North Carolina Bell 206 crash many years ago. The O2 bottle was in the baggage compartment and sprung a leak.....during a night flight.
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Why do all ASTARS seem to end up as a pile of ashes
His assumption was that a hard landing breaks the gear box and crushes the fuel tank or a hyraulic shock from the fuel in the tank on a hard/crash landing causes the tank to rupture.
This one happened almost in my back yard, literally.
VFD
Oxygen leaking may support combustion but doesn't cause it. In any case modern medical pipeline systems or simple cylinder supplies don't leak. The O ring seals are only used on anaesthetic machines not aircraft. Provided you check the system daily which is mandatory for patient safety I would put this right at the bottom of the possibilities
Homo.....that being so....why then have there been aircraft destroyed on the ground while crew members were doing the preflight checks on the O2 systems? I am familiar with several.
Oxygen does not burn....but it sure provides for a hotter, more intense fire should there be an Oxygen enriched atmosphere....as you well know.
There are multiple ways of experiencing a fire in flight but if the report of a cabin fire is correct then it rules out many possible scenario's don't you think?
The 350 amongst its many issues....does seem to wind up in a heap of ashes more often than not.
Medical helicopter crash in Oklahoma City claims 2 flight crew members, injures another | News OK
Oxygen does not burn....but it sure provides for a hotter, more intense fire should there be an Oxygen enriched atmosphere....as you well know.
There are multiple ways of experiencing a fire in flight but if the report of a cabin fire is correct then it rules out many possible scenario's don't you think?
The 350 amongst its many issues....does seem to wind up in a heap of ashes more often than not.
Medical helicopter crash in Oklahoma City claims 2 flight crew members, injures another | News OK
Last edited by SASless; 23rd Feb 2013 at 12:10.
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RIP. Very sad. On the barest of initial information, it does not seem to be the "normal" HEMS accident. Given the circumstances, I think it would be unwise to discount oxygen. If you do get enrichment it changes the whole game with fire. Things you would not think of turn into great fuels and innocuous ignition sources leap to start the thing up.
Forensic investigation should give us a clue, the fire spread is likely to be different if O2 is involved.
Forensic investigation should give us a clue, the fire spread is likely to be different if O2 is involved.
Helinut
Totally agree - oxygen does indeed support combustion. I was just saying it wasn't the cause: ie there must have been another source of fire, but the oxygen may then have acted as an accelerator
SASless
Can't comment without more information. Correct checking of a medical oxygen system does NOT involve release of more than about 4 litres of gas at no more than 1.5 atmospheres. Unless you squirt this at an open flame it won't cause a problem.
Changing old style cylinders does require releasing at high pressure. This should be done away from the airframe before fitting the cylinder. Modern cylinders do not require venting or any release of oxygen
As with helicopters, failure to follow correct procedures with oxygen cylinders can be dangerous
Totally agree - oxygen does indeed support combustion. I was just saying it wasn't the cause: ie there must have been another source of fire, but the oxygen may then have acted as an accelerator
SASless
Can't comment without more information. Correct checking of a medical oxygen system does NOT involve release of more than about 4 litres of gas at no more than 1.5 atmospheres. Unless you squirt this at an open flame it won't cause a problem.
Changing old style cylinders does require releasing at high pressure. This should be done away from the airframe before fitting the cylinder. Modern cylinders do not require venting or any release of oxygen
As with helicopters, failure to follow correct procedures with oxygen cylinders can be dangerous
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However, it doesn't explain the apparently low energy state of the Rotor system during impact
So unless the craft slid to that position from forward velocity just does not look like the rotor was rotating with any authority.
VFD
"Just a pilot"
"I do not know but local TV Helo pilot says they are equiped with a 140 gallon plastic fuel tank right under the main gear box rather than a bladder."
The Astar fuel tank is a 'plastic' cylinder in the central truss box upon which all the airframe is built. Baggage compartments either side and aft of that box, and the bulkhead between the cabin and other areas is the forward face of the 'box'. O2 is commonly installed in one of the baggage bays and will directly abut the 'box' containing the fuel cell.
The main gear box is attached to the top of the central 'truss box' over the tank.
I am unfamiliar with this accident aircraft configuration, but many O2 installations have a separate pilot controlled master cutoff valve installed at the LOX tank. I respectfully disagree with "Homonculus', O2 leaks can occur, but I believe they are infrequent. The only time I've used the O2 cutoff was after a hot patient unloading with O's left on.
I would be interested in the cabin heat and demist system in situations similar to that described this event.
The Astar fuel tank is a 'plastic' cylinder in the central truss box upon which all the airframe is built. Baggage compartments either side and aft of that box, and the bulkhead between the cabin and other areas is the forward face of the 'box'. O2 is commonly installed in one of the baggage bays and will directly abut the 'box' containing the fuel cell.
The main gear box is attached to the top of the central 'truss box' over the tank.
I am unfamiliar with this accident aircraft configuration, but many O2 installations have a separate pilot controlled master cutoff valve installed at the LOX tank. I respectfully disagree with "Homonculus', O2 leaks can occur, but I believe they are infrequent. The only time I've used the O2 cutoff was after a hot patient unloading with O's left on.
I would be interested in the cabin heat and demist system in situations similar to that described this event.
I think we are getting a little off message but
A 350 would only carry a few thousand litres of oxygen in an EMS role. If you have a leak of more than a couple of litres a minute you will very soon put your patient at risk due to inadequate oxygen. If the leak is in the pipeline you will also immediately be unable to provide high flow oxygen again putting the patient at risk. If is happens in a hospital it is a major reportable event. in the UK at least we use hospital standard pipelines in aircraft. Leaving a flow meter turned on with 4 litres a minute running is hardly an issue
A LOX is a totally different system from cylinders. The oxygen is low pressure and liquified. Spillage of high volumes of gaseous oxygen cannot occur because the portable systems vaporisation systems are only capable of 10 to 20 litres a minute. That is why we can't run high consumption equipment such as heart lung machines off LOX. Of course, in a high G impact the actual container can rupture leading to leakage of liquid oxygen. But otherwise it is so safe that we have clearance to carry 50000 litres on commercial flights
There appears no evidence to implicate oxygen in this accident, but having spent many years getting LOX approved by the CAA I am keen to ensure the excellent safety record is not besmirched
A 350 would only carry a few thousand litres of oxygen in an EMS role. If you have a leak of more than a couple of litres a minute you will very soon put your patient at risk due to inadequate oxygen. If the leak is in the pipeline you will also immediately be unable to provide high flow oxygen again putting the patient at risk. If is happens in a hospital it is a major reportable event. in the UK at least we use hospital standard pipelines in aircraft. Leaving a flow meter turned on with 4 litres a minute running is hardly an issue
A LOX is a totally different system from cylinders. The oxygen is low pressure and liquified. Spillage of high volumes of gaseous oxygen cannot occur because the portable systems vaporisation systems are only capable of 10 to 20 litres a minute. That is why we can't run high consumption equipment such as heart lung machines off LOX. Of course, in a high G impact the actual container can rupture leading to leakage of liquid oxygen. But otherwise it is so safe that we have clearance to carry 50000 litres on commercial flights
There appears no evidence to implicate oxygen in this accident, but having spent many years getting LOX approved by the CAA I am keen to ensure the excellent safety record is not besmirched