Just another day at work?
Wind
Maybe my iPad video was backwards, but in a couple of short pieces of the clip, one could see the flags along the road along the shoreline, and they look like the machine was into the wind. Very nice flying job in any case.
With so much money flying around for this commercial, I wonder why they couldn't afford a radio for the flight helper. Waving your arms in the wind while attached to a safety line in the down wash of the main rotor is not how things are done safely. No long line? No bubble window? Take the door off and let a long line specialist get the job quickly and safer. The flying was very smooth but it looks like this company does little or no external slinging in regards to equipting the ground crew with radios, (all three ground crew members). I wonder who did the safety assessment for this job?
Marcus
Marcus
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i reckon it was a bloody great job done by the PIC and also the person filming it
i will have to find out who the pilot was a buy him a beer and listen to the way he did it, etc etc.
And to all the expert, lounge-computer room, long line specialists, that can only say bad things about all things on here and other posts, ( yes the same names appear all the time )
SHUT UP FOR ONCE and appreciate how the actual workers do the job. You could learn something
my 2 bobs worth
i will have to find out who the pilot was a buy him a beer and listen to the way he did it, etc etc.
And to all the expert, lounge-computer room, long line specialists, that can only say bad things about all things on here and other posts, ( yes the same names appear all the time )
SHUT UP FOR ONCE and appreciate how the actual workers do the job. You could learn something
my 2 bobs worth
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HBNXE, get a life, the job was well planned, well executed and completed safely. For the others out there read Sandy Toad's post and maybe it's a good idea to listen to Reefdog.......
Demented,
Maybe it is just that people are a bit jealous of not being in a position to get an opportunity for a job like this.. That helipad must be one of a kind in the whole world, and for me just to have a flight and land there would be going into the memorybook for sure, let alone flying a car up there..
As I am a bit curious, anyone can tell me what the external load capasity/hook limit on it is?
Maybe it is just that people are a bit jealous of not being in a position to get an opportunity for a job like this.. That helipad must be one of a kind in the whole world, and for me just to have a flight and land there would be going into the memorybook for sure, let alone flying a car up there..
As I am a bit curious, anyone can tell me what the external load capasity/hook limit on it is?
Demented. Judging by your comment, working with external loads is not your area of expertise.
This is one of many examples of how external work is done on a daily basis.
http://www.heliswissinternational.co...erman_engl.pdf
This is the type of work I have been directly involved with in North America and here in Europe, (+25 years).
No discussion, this job was executed and completed without incident.
However......lets have a good look 7th picture see what could/should have done differently.
1.) Lead flight helper, (red overalls) no helmet, no radio. In direct down wash from MR. Standing directly in flight path of the load. No escape route.
2.) The 2 flight helpers, (riggers?) no hi visibility clothing (black & white/gray) blends in great with the painted(?) black/white deck. No radios.
3.) No mirror(s) on the A/C. Pilots door not removed for better visibility of the landing zone.
4.) The 2 flight helpers, (riggers?) lots of ropes attached to their belts to get tangled up in.
5.) Missing at least 2 ropes on the transport platform. Makes it easier to control and position the load on arrival.
6.) Optional: 4 Riggers might have been a better option if they had the trained personal.
7.) Optional: Pilots choice: 5-10 meters longer line. Less down wash.
Using hand signals to communicate with a pilot looking through his feet out the chin bubble in this day and age is foolish and dangerous.
Clear radio communication between the pilot and all ground crew is priority one during slinging operations.
It's clear this was a "big show" judging by the number camera's, helicopters, people near the heli-deck during deliver. The number of "vip's" in the video after the car was delivered looked impressive too.
Money did not appear to be a problem with this project. Money talks and big money talks even louder. So keep the job safe with good planning, risk assessment, and good teamwork.
Last but not least, make sure the crew, (airborne and ground) have the tools and training to complete the job safely.
M
This is one of many examples of how external work is done on a daily basis.
http://www.heliswissinternational.co...erman_engl.pdf
This is the type of work I have been directly involved with in North America and here in Europe, (+25 years).
No discussion, this job was executed and completed without incident.
However......lets have a good look 7th picture see what could/should have done differently.
1.) Lead flight helper, (red overalls) no helmet, no radio. In direct down wash from MR. Standing directly in flight path of the load. No escape route.
2.) The 2 flight helpers, (riggers?) no hi visibility clothing (black & white/gray) blends in great with the painted(?) black/white deck. No radios.
3.) No mirror(s) on the A/C. Pilots door not removed for better visibility of the landing zone.
4.) The 2 flight helpers, (riggers?) lots of ropes attached to their belts to get tangled up in.
5.) Missing at least 2 ropes on the transport platform. Makes it easier to control and position the load on arrival.
6.) Optional: 4 Riggers might have been a better option if they had the trained personal.
7.) Optional: Pilots choice: 5-10 meters longer line. Less down wash.
Using hand signals to communicate with a pilot looking through his feet out the chin bubble in this day and age is foolish and dangerous.
Clear radio communication between the pilot and all ground crew is priority one during slinging operations.
It's clear this was a "big show" judging by the number camera's, helicopters, people near the heli-deck during deliver. The number of "vip's" in the video after the car was delivered looked impressive too.
Money did not appear to be a problem with this project. Money talks and big money talks even louder. So keep the job safe with good planning, risk assessment, and good teamwork.
Last but not least, make sure the crew, (airborne and ground) have the tools and training to complete the job safely.
M
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Pointless exercise in futility.
Oh yes, and:
Oh yes, and:
Rolls-Royce Phantom Two. Four-point-three liter, 30 horsepower, six-cylinder engine, with Stromberg downdraft carburetor. Can go from zero to 100 kilometers an hour in 12.5 seconds. And I even like the color.
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Mmmm ...
Nice job from the boys at ADA .... and well done A.N. (?) from Heli-Dubai on the camera ship ...
As noted the 'Burj' wind sock is for show only ... local wind is rarely what is shown on the sock ... and anyway the 139's FMS output will indicate what the wind is likely to be in flight and at that height .... cross wind (?) approach is the go due obstruction from the structure.
Major reason for not wanting a tailwind on the 139 with external load is more to do with nose up attitude on final/hover than T/R effectiveness issues ... though there is a recommendation in the RFM with regard preferred wind direction in the hover!
Good work though .... bet there was some serious sweat involved !!
Edit:
HB-XNE (Marcus) .... Your being Harsh ... the bloke flying this job knew what he was doing or he wouldn't have been allowed to do it ... ADA DO HAVE SOME VERY WELL QUALIFIED EXPERIENCED LONG LINE PILOTS ... a risk assessment would most certainly HAVE been done ... and the 139 has multiple cameras to do the mirrors jobs ... high tech indeed ...
I would suggest the decision to have a minimal number of 'receiving' assistants on the deck was a good safety decision ... and just how do you know radios were not used ???? I agree not by the marshaller but I'd bet a vital part of your anatomy that there was radio comms at all times !! ... Helmets .. whilst not PC ... many marshalers in the M/E hate them 'cos on restricted size decks they slip, and then obscure vision and cause more safety issues than they fix ... I do agree though that its not the safest policy .. but in this case I think a good decision.
Nice job from the boys at ADA .... and well done A.N. (?) from Heli-Dubai on the camera ship ...
As noted the 'Burj' wind sock is for show only ... local wind is rarely what is shown on the sock ... and anyway the 139's FMS output will indicate what the wind is likely to be in flight and at that height .... cross wind (?) approach is the go due obstruction from the structure.
Major reason for not wanting a tailwind on the 139 with external load is more to do with nose up attitude on final/hover than T/R effectiveness issues ... though there is a recommendation in the RFM with regard preferred wind direction in the hover!
Good work though .... bet there was some serious sweat involved !!
Edit:
HB-XNE (Marcus) .... Your being Harsh ... the bloke flying this job knew what he was doing or he wouldn't have been allowed to do it ... ADA DO HAVE SOME VERY WELL QUALIFIED EXPERIENCED LONG LINE PILOTS ... a risk assessment would most certainly HAVE been done ... and the 139 has multiple cameras to do the mirrors jobs ... high tech indeed ...
I would suggest the decision to have a minimal number of 'receiving' assistants on the deck was a good safety decision ... and just how do you know radios were not used ???? I agree not by the marshaller but I'd bet a vital part of your anatomy that there was radio comms at all times !! ... Helmets .. whilst not PC ... many marshalers in the M/E hate them 'cos on restricted size decks they slip, and then obscure vision and cause more safety issues than they fix ... I do agree though that its not the safest policy .. but in this case I think a good decision.
Last edited by spinwing; 21st Jan 2013 at 00:47.
Spinwing
Thanks for the info about the external video cameras on the 139, I was unaware of this. Similar to the Mil-26? I started in this business when external load work was only done with mirrors. Personally, I prefer when the pilot can see me and the landing zone directly, ie. bubble door or door off & at least a 30 meter line.
I was not critiquing how the pilot flew the job and I apologize if this was how my comments were read. That part of the video was very smooth and accurate as one would expect.
Working with the AS332c1 & L's, logging, setting ski towers, assembling construction cranes, etc. Summer and winter. Helmets with radios and hi visibilty clothing are not an option. We all had them because it is mandatory, (workers compensation). Helmets if fitted properly do stay in place.
"and just how do you know radios were not used ????"
My comment was only with regards to communication between the pilot and the ground crew. This was my main point behind my comments
I do assume air to air radio comms were being monitered by the person in the left hand seat so that the pilot could concentrate on the job at hand.
I know we could discuss this till the cow's come home because we are working in different parts of the industry. External load vs people mover, (IFR). Having worked both sides, (VFR & IFR) I know they have their own very unique challenges.
Bottom line, the job was completed safely and without problem so I will enjoy the pictures and the wonderful view and leave it at that.
This heli-deck must be a magnet for companies with big advertising bugets. I still remember Roger Federer and Andre Agassi playing "tennis" up there. No safety ropes or ball boys.
Keep the shiney side up and have a great flying season.
M
Thanks for the info about the external video cameras on the 139, I was unaware of this. Similar to the Mil-26? I started in this business when external load work was only done with mirrors. Personally, I prefer when the pilot can see me and the landing zone directly, ie. bubble door or door off & at least a 30 meter line.
I was not critiquing how the pilot flew the job and I apologize if this was how my comments were read. That part of the video was very smooth and accurate as one would expect.
Working with the AS332c1 & L's, logging, setting ski towers, assembling construction cranes, etc. Summer and winter. Helmets with radios and hi visibilty clothing are not an option. We all had them because it is mandatory, (workers compensation). Helmets if fitted properly do stay in place.
"and just how do you know radios were not used ????"
My comment was only with regards to communication between the pilot and the ground crew. This was my main point behind my comments
I do assume air to air radio comms were being monitered by the person in the left hand seat so that the pilot could concentrate on the job at hand.
I know we could discuss this till the cow's come home because we are working in different parts of the industry. External load vs people mover, (IFR). Having worked both sides, (VFR & IFR) I know they have their own very unique challenges.
Bottom line, the job was completed safely and without problem so I will enjoy the pictures and the wonderful view and leave it at that.
This heli-deck must be a magnet for companies with big advertising bugets. I still remember Roger Federer and Andre Agassi playing "tennis" up there. No safety ropes or ball boys.
Keep the shiney side up and have a great flying season.
M
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Mmmm ...
Marcus .... perfectly all right old chap ... most of us here have all 'been around the block' a few times ... I did my time longlining in old 'steam driven' 330Js years ago so I know where your coming from ...
BTW I would assume the 139 used wasn't the lightest machines (ADA's are usually in offshore trim) ... unfortunately with the 139 if the machines GWt is going to be above 6400Kg pilot doors are not allowed to be removed ... so that good idea is nixed!!
I would also suspect (?) that it was the Left seat pilot 'flew the load' till safely on deck with the Right seat pilot monitoring ... as the Left side view of the pad area would have been much better ... but hey I wasn't there so
Cheers
Marcus .... perfectly all right old chap ... most of us here have all 'been around the block' a few times ... I did my time longlining in old 'steam driven' 330Js years ago so I know where your coming from ...
BTW I would assume the 139 used wasn't the lightest machines (ADA's are usually in offshore trim) ... unfortunately with the 139 if the machines GWt is going to be above 6400Kg pilot doors are not allowed to be removed ... so that good idea is nixed!!
I would also suspect (?) that it was the Left seat pilot 'flew the load' till safely on deck with the Right seat pilot monitoring ... as the Left side view of the pad area would have been much better ... but hey I wasn't there so
Cheers
Last edited by spinwing; 21st Jan 2013 at 05:11.
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Beautiful video and excellent PR for the helicopter industry.
Is it not the case that, because the Burj is shaped like a huge sail, there is a significant change in wind at the final stage (up to 180 degrees in some conditions) and that pilots familiar with landing on the pad are used to it and ready to deal with it?
Is it not reasonable to assume that the pilot(s) given this high profile task knew what they were doing?
FL
Is it not the case that, because the Burj is shaped like a huge sail, there is a significant change in wind at the final stage (up to 180 degrees in some conditions) and that pilots familiar with landing on the pad are used to it and ready to deal with it?
Is it not reasonable to assume that the pilot(s) given this high profile task knew what they were doing?
FL
Oh....well, with the short line it was probably a bread and butter job for those guys anyway, but they could have made it more of a challenge by using a 150' line!
Last edited by gulliBell; 21st Jan 2013 at 12:21.