R-22 ROTOR SEPARATION? Florida Photo
You'd think if that segment had come out of the blade in flight the aerodynamic loads would have torn it out completely, so maybe that damage ocurred when the blade hit the water?
By the description given of human body parts the blade has obviously gone through the cabin inflight and hit the pilot....or at least the roof/canopy. Thankful for small mercy the deceased pilot was probably killed instantly without knowing anything, unlike the UK pilot mentioned in the AAIB report who was still alive when the R22 hit the ground inverted after falling from 1500'. Just awful.
I have been contemplating doing my CFI....these in-flight breakups of R helicopters mean I will choose to do it in something not built by R.
By the description given of human body parts the blade has obviously gone through the cabin inflight and hit the pilot....or at least the roof/canopy. Thankful for small mercy the deceased pilot was probably killed instantly without knowing anything, unlike the UK pilot mentioned in the AAIB report who was still alive when the R22 hit the ground inverted after falling from 1500'. Just awful.
I have been contemplating doing my CFI....these in-flight breakups of R helicopters mean I will choose to do it in something not built by R.
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No problem, not everyday you see something like this....I will get back out and recover the other blade as soon as the weather cooperates!
ENGLEWOOD TO TARPON SPRINGS OUT 20 NM- BONITA BEACH TO ENGLEWOOD OUT 20 NM- 430 PM EST SAT FEB 16 2013 SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT THROUGH SUNDAY MORNING TONIGHT NORTHWEST WINDS 20 TO 25 KNOTS THEN BECOMING NORTH AROUND 20 KNOTS AFTER MIDNIGHT. SEAS 6 TO 8 FEET. BAY AND INLAND WATERS ROUGH. A SLIGHT CHANCE OF SPRINKLES. SUNDAY NORTH WINDS AROUND 20 KNOTS DIMINISHING TO 10 TO 15 KNOTS IN THE AFTERNOON. SEAS 4 TO 6 FEET. BAY AND INLAND WATERS CHOPPY.
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ENGLEWOOD TO TARPON SPRINGS OUT 20 NM- BONITA BEACH TO ENGLEWOOD OUT 20 NM- 430 PM EST SAT FEB 16 2013 SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT THROUGH SUNDAY MORNING TONIGHT NORTHWEST WINDS 20 TO 25 KNOTS THEN BECOMING NORTH AROUND 20 KNOTS AFTER MIDNIGHT. SEAS 6 TO 8 FEET. BAY AND INLAND WATERS ROUGH. A SLIGHT CHANCE OF SPRINKLES. SUNDAY NORTH WINDS AROUND 20 KNOTS DIMINISHING TO 10 TO 15 KNOTS IN THE AFTERNOON. SEAS 4 TO 6 FEET. BAY AND INLAND WATERS CHOPPY.
q
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I am pretty sure the blade did not go through the aircraft...they separated and were thrown clear of the airframe, the pilot suffered massive injuries on impact with the water.....the blades , blade, was in perfect condition, no evidence of collision...we shall see what blade two looks like....from the side scan, appears to be untouched and in same condition as blade one, minus the chunk out of it...
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Susiegfish You deserve the highest praise and thanks for you efforts and astute observations. Has or can someone pick up remaining blade, although it may be academic only.?
regards tet
regards tet
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susieqfish,
Thanks again for posting the pics and description of events. As you can imagine from scanning this thread, many here would be very interested in seeing pics of the second blade, if / when you can recover it.
Thanks again for posting the pics and description of events. As you can imagine from scanning this thread, many here would be very interested in seeing pics of the second blade, if / when you can recover it.
Gullibell - the forces involved in such a crash mean it is very unlikely that a human body will remain in one piece (or even large pieces) - sorry to be gruesome but that's the way it is.
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Robinson widow maker
Rest In Peace my sincere condolences......
Welcome to the Crapinson Flimsicopter no surprises here very sadly a regular & common event.
Happy Landings
VF
Rest In Peace my sincere condolences......
Welcome to the Crapinson Flimsicopter no surprises here very sadly a regular & common event.
Happy Landings
VF
I think the Robbie is a great little helicopter, but like anything mechanical it CAN fail.
Robinson - Widow maker
But, when I had 2 engine failures; 1 in a B47 20years ago & the other in a AS350 everyone walked away with no injuries. 
machines left up right & intact 
Please read this forum; it IS the Robinson that kills the MOST Pilot's of any machine made on this planet
Happy landings always
machines left up right & intact Please read this forum; it IS the Robinson that kills the MOST Pilot's of any machine made on this planet
Happy landings always
Last edited by Vertical Freedom; 18th Feb 2013 at 02:53.
I vote with my feet and leave the R flying to those brave R fliers, not for me I'm afraid...
Dmark1 - I suggest you read the UK AAIB report as it highlights that even very serviceable Robinsons are just a harsh cyclic movement away from an in-flight break up.
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VF
But I am not, it's most tiresome I am pretty much right over your continual cynicism. If you wish to be critical for god's sake quantify it. It is well known that AS 350's have been biting the dust and killing people with regular monotony of late. This could be assumed as not of pilot error mostly as they are crewed by either professional or high time pilots. By contrast R22's by and large are exposed to ab initio pilots of the highest number of any type.
Many of their other statistics have been because of overload, over flying of hours and also because of many of my brethren (Pilots who have got into flying them mustering without any degree of respect, knowledge or finesse of flight control and general aviation machine tolerances, I.E. they aint a pilots backside mate) who take liberties with the controls any flying machines is clearly not designed for.
VF you would know that from your background in OZ. If you don't then you are exceedingly unobservant. I suggest your attitude is not making it easier at all for those who have to fly these machines day in day out, so Pull your bloody head in please and do some research. Your two incidents don't come within a bull's roar of comparing with 39 times onto the ground without scratching any of those of which only three were in R22's of mine, if you want some real experience come see me.
Crab.
I hear what you are saying but as per the above, these gadgets have probably amassed well more than 3 million flight hours under the mustering regime. It would be absolutely extraordinary for the, shall I say those with less finesse to have not proven that conclusively by now. However having said that if one were to say, be flying along without the cyclic bias (lateral trim) not engaged and let the cyclic go then maybe it is possible to do just that. The untrimmed cyclic will sure flick quickly if let go.
As in both cases recently highlighted, it would be very hard to imagine an experienced F/W pilot to fly along in an untrimmed state once established in cruise, say they then get a fright with the indication of the Carby air temp - let go the wheel - and be in that predicament.
Despite the numerous attempts by my brethren and others to over control to the point of break up - perhaps it is possible. I would be interested to hear what the house of Robinson did with the test flying regimes in that area.
But, as we all know it is certainly not a good idea to be too preconceived with ideas about any matters in aviation I think you will agree.
I have no problems admitting to over controlling to the point of machine shudder in the past, but I don't jerk controls unlike one of my colleagues who came home one day with a mast on a '47 broken one third the way around under the clamps of the no bar kit.. So you could well be right.
all the best tet
VF - I know, I know. Just playing with you
Many of their other statistics have been because of overload, over flying of hours and also because of many of my brethren (Pilots who have got into flying them mustering without any degree of respect, knowledge or finesse of flight control and general aviation machine tolerances, I.E. they aint a pilots backside mate) who take liberties with the controls any flying machines is clearly not designed for.
VF you would know that from your background in OZ. If you don't then you are exceedingly unobservant. I suggest your attitude is not making it easier at all for those who have to fly these machines day in day out, so Pull your bloody head in please and do some research. Your two incidents don't come within a bull's roar of comparing with 39 times onto the ground without scratching any of those of which only three were in R22's of mine, if you want some real experience come see me.
Crab.
are just a harsh cyclic movement away from an in-flight break up.
As in both cases recently highlighted, it would be very hard to imagine an experienced F/W pilot to fly along in an untrimmed state once established in cruise, say they then get a fright with the indication of the Carby air temp - let go the wheel - and be in that predicament.
Despite the numerous attempts by my brethren and others to over control to the point of break up - perhaps it is possible. I would be interested to hear what the house of Robinson did with the test flying regimes in that area.
But, as we all know it is certainly not a good idea to be too preconceived with ideas about any matters in aviation I think you will agree.
I have no problems admitting to over controlling to the point of machine shudder in the past, but I don't jerk controls unlike one of my colleagues who came home one day with a mast on a '47 broken one third the way around under the clamps of the no bar kit.. So you could well be right.
all the best tet
Last edited by topendtorque; 18th Feb 2013 at 23:03.
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The upper end of the Rotary Pilot world seem to constantly slag off at the Robinson brand of Helicopters as being some inferior product best left to the lower class of Sky Dwellers. Well while they all spend more time with their dicks in their hand than a cyclic....Robinson helicopters are out there in masses going to work or play every day and bringing their pilot home safely each and every day?
Opinions
Good morning topendtorque
Opinions are like a...*oles everyone has one! Some people like Holden's others Ford - so what, it's just an opinion & not fighting words.
This Forum is an open Forum; non racist & non discriminatory hence we are all free to give opinions.
My opinion of the Crapinson is that only - 'an opinion' & as we don't yet live in a Police state, I am free to think & voice those opinions, as we all are. Sadly those opinions are based on 23 years in this game having had friends killed & nearly killed from blade delaminations & other in-flight break ups. Not caused from inexperienced Pilot's but from under built sub standard machines. I have a number of Engineering Friends that hate them with a passion & do not trust them, from their perspective. I have seen a a Robo blade with signs of delamination brand new, still in the box
Maybe Your offended by my words, maybe it's because deep down You also know some of these things to be true
You are right; all machines have some draw backs, some limitations. But not to the extreme, obscene extent as with Robo's. I don't buy the argument that it's mostly caused by a lack of skills, that may be true in the odd case but not the majority.
Just like on this thread the Pilot who died in Florida from an in-flight break up, he was a highly experienced Fixed & Rotory Pilot/Instructor??? Yes, I have had an engine failure twice, in a Bell & a Aerospatiale product, & yes all my PAX & I walked away without a scratch, no post crash fire, all safe & well.
39 engine failures followed by successful landings, oh my God, that has to go into the Guinness book of records, that is frightening. You truly are Blessed by the God's to be still gracing the Earth with Your presence, well done
As for helping, not help Pilot's in Oz????? I think the more information spread out there will help people be more informed about their choice of training machine etc. If the majority of students/Pilot's boycott this machine, then more growth would be seen in more worthy machines, or maybe the Robo factory would sharpen their pencils
I am humbled by Your offer to give me some real training experience...I'm always keen to learn something new & look forward to developing new skills that would make me safer & more efficient, thank You
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti (Aum Peace Peace Peace)
Happy Landings
VF
Opinions are like a...*oles everyone has one! Some people like Holden's others Ford - so what, it's just an opinion & not fighting words.
This Forum is an open Forum; non racist & non discriminatory hence we are all free to give opinions. My opinion of the Crapinson is that only - 'an opinion' & as we don't yet live in a Police state, I am free to think & voice those opinions, as we all are. Sadly those opinions are based on 23 years in this game having had friends killed & nearly killed from blade delaminations & other in-flight break ups. Not caused from inexperienced Pilot's but from under built sub standard machines. I have a number of Engineering Friends that hate them with a passion & do not trust them, from their perspective. I have seen a a Robo blade with signs of delamination brand new, still in the box
Maybe Your offended by my words, maybe it's because deep down You also know some of these things to be true
You are right; all machines have some draw backs, some limitations. But not to the extreme, obscene extent as with Robo's. I don't buy the argument that it's mostly caused by a lack of skills, that may be true in the odd case but not the majority.
Just like on this thread the Pilot who died in Florida from an in-flight break up, he was a highly experienced Fixed & Rotory Pilot/Instructor??? Yes, I have had an engine failure twice, in a Bell & a Aerospatiale product, & yes all my PAX & I walked away without a scratch, no post crash fire, all safe & well. 39 engine failures followed by successful landings, oh my God, that has to go into the Guinness book of records, that is frightening. You truly are Blessed by the God's to be still gracing the Earth with Your presence, well done
As for helping, not help Pilot's in Oz????? I think the more information spread out there will help people be more informed about their choice of training machine etc. If the majority of students/Pilot's boycott this machine, then more growth would be seen in more worthy machines, or maybe the Robo factory would sharpen their pencils
I am humbled by Your offer to give me some real training experience...I'm always keen to learn something new & look forward to developing new skills that would make me safer & more efficient, thank You
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti (Aum Peace Peace Peace)
Happy Landings
VF
Last edited by Vertical Freedom; 19th Feb 2013 at 08:47.
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Your two incidents don't come within a bull's roar of comparing with 39 times onto the ground without scratching any of those of which only three were in R22's of mine, if you want some real experience come see me.
The R22 issue has been beaten to death on this forum. Lee Zuckerman (RIP) did much to bring the inadequacies of the R22 to everyone's attention causing mayhem amongst contributors
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/206...-robinson.html
Topend Tq: I think you'll find that at your end of the globe, especially in the mustering world, it has been a red rag to a bull when mentioning R22 safety. That industry has done nothing to uphold the virtues of the toy helicopter - unfortunately. And you have to accept that you are unique individual anyway - it seems no matter what helicopters throw at you - you escape unscathed
However, for the rest of the world, these damning statistics are still trickling through. The problem without a shadow of doubt is that Frank built a fragile sensitive CHEAP helicopter available to the masses. Flying schools bought them in their dozens and taught wannabees how 'easy' and affordable it was to fly them.
It was the coming together of an unforgiving and fragile helicopter with very very low time inexperienced pilots that cases all the problems.
[There are exceptions like the latest stoof in the US].
I think the tide is turning slowly and more and more pilots are, shall we say...shying away from them and sticking with sturdier more forgiving die hards like the Schweizer..et al.
I might even see an R22 free world in my time.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/206...-robinson.html
Topend Tq: I think you'll find that at your end of the globe, especially in the mustering world, it has been a red rag to a bull when mentioning R22 safety. That industry has done nothing to uphold the virtues of the toy helicopter - unfortunately. And you have to accept that you are unique individual anyway - it seems no matter what helicopters throw at you - you escape unscathed
However, for the rest of the world, these damning statistics are still trickling through. The problem without a shadow of doubt is that Frank built a fragile sensitive CHEAP helicopter available to the masses. Flying schools bought them in their dozens and taught wannabees how 'easy' and affordable it was to fly them.
It was the coming together of an unforgiving and fragile helicopter with very very low time inexperienced pilots that cases all the problems.
[There are exceptions like the latest stoof in the US].
I think the tide is turning slowly and more and more pilots are, shall we say...shying away from them and sticking with sturdier more forgiving die hards like the Schweizer..et al.
I might even see an R22 free world in my time.
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 19th Feb 2013 at 08:41.