Bristow Commercial Pilot Sponsorship NOW
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There are rules regarding apprenticeship entry criteria; why have a problem that a similar criteria is applied here?
It's just like any job advertisement with specific requirements.
What about school leavers who don't get taken on for jobs as they have no 'experience' but an older person would get the job no problem. That's accepted behaviour, what's wrong with this situation?
It's just like any job advertisement with specific requirements.
What about school leavers who don't get taken on for jobs as they have no 'experience' but an older person would get the job no problem. That's accepted behaviour, what's wrong with this situation?
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Bristow have to ensure that they get a return on their investment, which is fully acceptable in my eyes. I just wish they would make all of the criteria available before you pay the air league membership.
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A couple of thoughts.....
I wonder how many existing NS pilots have grade A's at A level in maths and science?
Why don't Bristow apply the strict selection process after candidates have bought their own ATPLs? Or do they?
I wonder how many existing NS pilots have grade A's at A level in maths and science?
Why don't Bristow apply the strict selection process after candidates have bought their own ATPLs? Or do they?
Droopystop
I got Maths A level but a grade B. However, of course getting a grade A A level is much easier these days it seems <ducks for incoming!>
When someone turns up waving a licence for an interview / assessment, you get to spend a few hours with them to form an opinion. But it is easy to keep up an act for a few hours, so you don't get to see the real person.
But during a PPL(A) course your true nature is likely to become apparent, prior to BHL spending lots on CPL training.
BHL is giving away free training, I don't think it is too unreasonable to set high entry standards. After all, someone has to wade through thousands of applications and a criteria like that will signifcantly ease their workload!
I got Maths A level but a grade B. However, of course getting a grade A A level is much easier these days it seems <ducks for incoming!>
When someone turns up waving a licence for an interview / assessment, you get to spend a few hours with them to form an opinion. But it is easy to keep up an act for a few hours, so you don't get to see the real person.
But during a PPL(A) course your true nature is likely to become apparent, prior to BHL spending lots on CPL training.
BHL is giving away free training, I don't think it is too unreasonable to set high entry standards. After all, someone has to wade through thousands of applications and a criteria like that will signifcantly ease their workload!
Last edited by HeliComparator; 23rd Nov 2012 at 09:23.
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Sorry guys I'm being a bit thick here - where does the A's at A level bit appear? Is that further in the application? I'm asking because both of my sons would like to apply, but neither have got that top end mark.
In the 80's when Bristow did their HP courses at Redhill, the requirements were for 5 O levels including English Maths & a Science, a fixed wing PPL and show a high level of aviation interest (e.g Air Cadets etc). The course also required that the student, upon graduation, became bonded to the company for six years.
When I first looked at this, it looked pretty clear that this was a sponsored training course and therefore would be outside of any age related employment law. But looking again at this, how does Bristow get round the issue of employment after the course? You are not employed until you complete the course and have the CPL(H), frozen ATPL(H) exams, and ME(IR). So having gained all of these qualifications, if you are not guaranteed employment (sponsored training course don't forget), what is to stop anybody just clearing off to work elsewhere without signing the bonding agreement? If you are guaranteed employment, then the age related legislation probably does apply.
In the 80's when Bristow did their HP courses at Redhill, the requirements were for 5 O levels including English Maths & a Science, a fixed wing PPL and show a high level of aviation interest (e.g Air Cadets etc). The course also required that the student, upon graduation, became bonded to the company for six years.
When I first looked at this, it looked pretty clear that this was a sponsored training course and therefore would be outside of any age related employment law. But looking again at this, how does Bristow get round the issue of employment after the course? You are not employed until you complete the course and have the CPL(H), frozen ATPL(H) exams, and ME(IR). So having gained all of these qualifications, if you are not guaranteed employment (sponsored training course don't forget), what is to stop anybody just clearing off to work elsewhere without signing the bonding agreement? If you are guaranteed employment, then the age related legislation probably does apply.
I am no lawyer but can't help thinking that employment law is not applicable because no job is being advertised.
Edited to add the following extract (my bold)
2.1 The Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006 prohibit age discrimination in employment and vocational training. They apply to all individuals in work or seeking work or access to training, to all employers, and to all providers of vocational training (including further and higher education institutions) and vocational guidance.
Last edited by 212man; 23rd Nov 2012 at 09:42.
212, yes you are right the law apples to vocational training, but if you want vocational training from Bristow you can certainly have it regardless of your age, you just have to pay the course fee. What is being gifted here is not training, but free training, or if you like, the course fee. I don't think the law applies to that. But who knows unless there is a test case!
902J in the 80s, the requirement was the O levels you mention, plus an A level in a science or maths based subject. Grades were not specified however.
There wouldn't be a guarantee of a job because the company doesn't know how the market might change in a year or two, although current best guess is that it will continue to grow and so it is worth the punt. Also it would probably depend on the individual's performance during the CPL course.
I don't think the company could stop someone from failing to take up a job at the end, but the industry is a small one and would you want to employ someone with morals like that? Plus of course the Ts and Cs are hard to beat, so why old you not want the job?
902J in the 80s, the requirement was the O levels you mention, plus an A level in a science or maths based subject. Grades were not specified however.
There wouldn't be a guarantee of a job because the company doesn't know how the market might change in a year or two, although current best guess is that it will continue to grow and so it is worth the punt. Also it would probably depend on the individual's performance during the CPL course.
I don't think the company could stop someone from failing to take up a job at the end, but the industry is a small one and would you want to employ someone with morals like that? Plus of course the Ts and Cs are hard to beat, so why old you not want the job?
Last edited by HeliComparator; 23rd Nov 2012 at 10:14.
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HC,
I take your point about the difficulty of selection. But surely Bristow have the opportunity to spend a year evaluating candidates as they progress through their training school without spending a penny. Or has the supply of self funders dried up?
I take your point about the difficulty of selection. But surely Bristow have the opportunity to spend a year evaluating candidates as they progress through their training school without spending a penny. Or has the supply of self funders dried up?
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HC
I don't recall a requirement for A levels at all let alone one in Maths or a science. I managed to get on the course with only an A level in Engineering drawing.
Maybe (all due respect meant), that the perceived academic level of GCSE levels by employers mean that they require A levels now, where in our day, O levels were seen as an adequate level of education.
Notwithstanding, this is going to be interesting if anybody tests the Law regarding age discrimination. After all, anybody can apply, The Air League and Bristow will still make the decision who they want. It would be impossible to prove that they were not doing anything other than a skills and aptitude based selection process.
I don't recall a requirement for A levels at all let alone one in Maths or a science. I managed to get on the course with only an A level in Engineering drawing.
Maybe (all due respect meant), that the perceived academic level of GCSE levels by employers mean that they require A levels now, where in our day, O levels were seen as an adequate level of education.
Notwithstanding, this is going to be interesting if anybody tests the Law regarding age discrimination. After all, anybody can apply, The Air League and Bristow will still make the decision who they want. It would be impossible to prove that they were not doing anything other than a skills and aptitude based selection process.
902, I guess it may depend on when you were applying for the cadetship. For me, it was in 1979 and although it is quite a long time ago, I specifically remember that there was a requirement for an A level, but on futher thought it might have said "an A level in a mathmatically-based subject" for which I think they would include, maths, physics etc.
I always remember the "off the wall" question they asked everyone at interview - it was "What is blue shift" and fortunately I was the only one in our group of interviewees who knew the answer, though of course no relevance to being a pilot! I always suspect that is why I got the place when other didn't. You need a selection criteria, why not that!
I always remember the "off the wall" question they asked everyone at interview - it was "What is blue shift" and fortunately I was the only one in our group of interviewees who knew the answer, though of course no relevance to being a pilot! I always suspect that is why I got the place when other didn't. You need a selection criteria, why not that!
Last edited by HeliComparator; 23rd Nov 2012 at 15:29.
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I'd like to know the root cause of all this. Are Bristow dissatisfied with their latest, self-funded new-hires? Are they lacking in technical skills, dedication or other? I hear you mention things like "it hasn't worked out" etc. but what hasn't worked so well?
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Sorry guys I'm being a bit thick here - where does the A's at A level bit appear? Is that further in the application? I'm asking because both of my sons would like to apply, but neither have got that top end mark.
Apologies if your question has already been answered ^.
The requirements for the A grade A Levels is actually further into the Application (after you've purchased the Air League membership).
I don't meet those requirements either, and have made that quite clear to the Air League and have asked for a refund of my membership money.
Cheers,
NDW
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HC
I don't recall a requirement for A levels at all let alone one in Maths or a science. I managed to get on the course with only an A level in Engineering drawing.
Maybe (all due respect meant), that the perceived academic level of GCSE levels by employers mean that they require A levels now, where in our day, O levels were seen as an adequate level of education.
I don't recall a requirement for A levels at all let alone one in Maths or a science. I managed to get on the course with only an A level in Engineering drawing.
Maybe (all due respect meant), that the perceived academic level of GCSE levels by employers mean that they require A levels now, where in our day, O levels were seen as an adequate level of education.
I can't believe that this thread has gone 4 pages lambasting a company combining with the Air League to offer free training
Sure, they haven't got everything done to everyone's satisfaction but are you really serious in mooting that an age restriction on a free training offer is illegal? What do you want, a chauffeur limo to pick you up every day plus a paid holiday?Get out there and count your blessings and if you don't make the cut then look at yourself. Not the benevolent company who are putting up their money to invest in finding motivated people to become Helicopter Pilots, the best job in the world
whinging pilot....
Good for Bristows. If they are funding these quals then surely they can stipulate the age and academic level required. Heli aerodynamics is a tricky ( for me! ) subject and should require good Maths / Physics A levels. I don't see the air force / navy lowering academic standards nor age - I really can't see why anyone would have a problem with this; I would assume that Bristows would like high calibre pilots with a good education plus undoubtedly other qualities.
In the current egalitarian world of aviation whereby individuals fork out vast sums of money for pilot training without any selection criteria apart from access to the cash it appears a step in the right direction. In a similar vein I don't see medical or engineering departments at universities reducing entry requirements; straight A's @ A level, first time or forget it. The world is competitive and good luck to those selected.
In the current egalitarian world of aviation whereby individuals fork out vast sums of money for pilot training without any selection criteria apart from access to the cash it appears a step in the right direction. In a similar vein I don't see medical or engineering departments at universities reducing entry requirements; straight A's @ A level, first time or forget it. The world is competitive and good luck to those selected.
targa - you sussed it! Compared to £5000 per hour for a large heli, the £60 represents a major income stream. No wonder all the aircraft are in the hangar, we can just let the money roll in without having to buy fuel!
Anyway, this thread just reinforces that what we are doing is a good idea! Modern yoof off the street wants it all with no effort - even going to school was too much trouble.
Anyway, this thread just reinforces that what we are doing is a good idea! Modern yoof off the street wants it all with no effort - even going to school was too much trouble.
Last edited by HeliComparator; 23rd Nov 2012 at 21:40.
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I see helihub have printed an apology for the article mentioned earlier in this thread regarding the age discrimination debate.
You would think in this day and age everyone would be supportive of such a pro active measure.
I don't think it will ever be quite like the Redhill HP programme but will certainly provide the opportunity for some to progress in a fantastic career.
You would think in this day and age everyone would be supportive of such a pro active measure.
I don't think it will ever be quite like the Redhill HP programme but will certainly provide the opportunity for some to progress in a fantastic career.