POLICE TFO'S/AIR OBSERVERS THREAD (NPAS)
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,574
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
It was at this moment in his flying career that he sold his sole to the rotary world
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
P.S. Like the badge, SS - do you do one with a 902?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sitting on the toilet of Europe.... the UK
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Silsoe,
I missed this one!
Haha he really doesn't know you does he. Tis fun to watch you two bitch thou!
I missed this one!
I'm assuming from your ill-informed comments that your not actually in the business, just a badly informed onlooker who's a bitter at not being allowed in for some reason. Feel free to leave unless you have something positive to contribute rather than petty back biting.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FFF - I fear that can-do, motivation, self-worth etc were all things that may have been somehwat overlooked in the desperate drive to ensure things were in place for a politically-driven, and already delayed, 1st October.
Sadly the delay was caused, IMHO, by a decision to "let go", for a year, the only aviation expert the organisation need most, instead relying on the goodwill of a few busy people to provide gratis advice in their very limited spare time. There was a *mistaken* (*..* = substitute adjective of choice) belief that the Police had enough expertise to do the job without such experience which, now that it's back on-board, has been having to work all hours, and more, just to ensure a foot could be jammed in the door in time.
Although we're at the end, or the beginning (depending on how you look at this week in the annals of Air Support), there is still plenty of work to do to ensure that the door is opened wide enough to let the others in, or possibly out - although either seems to have been made more difficult by the mountain of admin that seems to have been piled behind it!
TF - thank you for acknowledgement of some points, although I would have to disagree that a keen voice will not necessarily be that of an Officer, any more than a Civvy, and the guy/gal on the ground will not care a jot who's providing it, if they're getting the service they need. As we've debated before, my views remain that a smattering of Civvy TFOs would do no harm, although I've never advocated complete civilianisation as, you're quite correct, just the knowledge of it would ensure credibility with the ground troops would evaporate in an instant.
However, if you can train a Police Officer to use specialist equipment s/he's never seen before in a specialist environment s/he's never worked in before, it should not be beyond the wit of man to train a professional aviator to pick up the vagaries of the Police job in the air - neither requires a degree. The military aviator has spent a career searching for, catching (& sometimes despatching) both goodies & baddies - the chase is in the blood, just as it is for the Police. The only hinderance is the pile of admin behind the door!
Sadly the delay was caused, IMHO, by a decision to "let go", for a year, the only aviation expert the organisation need most, instead relying on the goodwill of a few busy people to provide gratis advice in their very limited spare time. There was a *mistaken* (*..* = substitute adjective of choice) belief that the Police had enough expertise to do the job without such experience which, now that it's back on-board, has been having to work all hours, and more, just to ensure a foot could be jammed in the door in time.
Although we're at the end, or the beginning (depending on how you look at this week in the annals of Air Support), there is still plenty of work to do to ensure that the door is opened wide enough to let the others in, or possibly out - although either seems to have been made more difficult by the mountain of admin that seems to have been piled behind it!
TF - thank you for acknowledgement of some points, although I would have to disagree that a keen voice will not necessarily be that of an Officer, any more than a Civvy, and the guy/gal on the ground will not care a jot who's providing it, if they're getting the service they need. As we've debated before, my views remain that a smattering of Civvy TFOs would do no harm, although I've never advocated complete civilianisation as, you're quite correct, just the knowledge of it would ensure credibility with the ground troops would evaporate in an instant.
However, if you can train a Police Officer to use specialist equipment s/he's never seen before in a specialist environment s/he's never worked in before, it should not be beyond the wit of man to train a professional aviator to pick up the vagaries of the Police job in the air - neither requires a degree. The military aviator has spent a career searching for, catching (& sometimes despatching) both goodies & baddies - the chase is in the blood, just as it is for the Police. The only hinderance is the pile of admin behind the door!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Of course what you get with a police officer TFO, is the fact that he/she, being an attested constable has worked a beat, has driven in a live pursuit, has chased suspects through gardens, has passed advanced driving/TPAC courses, has stood in the cold & contained premises awaiting dog handler / aircraft and indeed is very likely to have searched thru gardens/hedgerows with an a/c overhead..!
All these things, nice as they are to have in an observer are not strictly necessary, but they make for a much more balanced crew member for having these skills and experiences.
Arguably what's more important is that a police officer will have dealt with victims of crime face to face, will have dealt with the assault victim, the rape victim the robbery victim. They will have knocked on a door at 4am to tell someone their loved one has been killed in an accident, and then spent the next few hours helping them thru the aftermath. They are quite likely to have been a firearms Officer and brought weapons to bear on the streets of the UK.
Because of these things they have empathy, and know what expectations the public have of them, and what they want the police to do for them. You can sum it up with the word "duty".
Can you teach a "civilian" these things..?
Of course you can..!
You can teach patrol skills, search techniques, rules of evidence, PACE, powers of entry, TPAC rules, rules for the use of force, some basic law. You can even teach & instil a sense of duty to your staff I suppose.
This is happening across policing everywhere now in all sorts of roles.
The only issue is. Where does the line end. Where is the point where the role deserves a police officer to be in post and to be subject to the discipline procedures, rules, protection from industrial action, political activity and responsibility to the public that the office of constable brings.?
Where is the line whereby if you have teach so many skills to a civilian, they may as well be an attested Officer..!
And the point is, we are "policing" from the sky.
Personally I think the TFO role is doomed. Winsor will see to that if NPAS doesn't.
All these things, nice as they are to have in an observer are not strictly necessary, but they make for a much more balanced crew member for having these skills and experiences.
Arguably what's more important is that a police officer will have dealt with victims of crime face to face, will have dealt with the assault victim, the rape victim the robbery victim. They will have knocked on a door at 4am to tell someone their loved one has been killed in an accident, and then spent the next few hours helping them thru the aftermath. They are quite likely to have been a firearms Officer and brought weapons to bear on the streets of the UK.
Because of these things they have empathy, and know what expectations the public have of them, and what they want the police to do for them. You can sum it up with the word "duty".
Can you teach a "civilian" these things..?
Of course you can..!
You can teach patrol skills, search techniques, rules of evidence, PACE, powers of entry, TPAC rules, rules for the use of force, some basic law. You can even teach & instil a sense of duty to your staff I suppose.
This is happening across policing everywhere now in all sorts of roles.
The only issue is. Where does the line end. Where is the point where the role deserves a police officer to be in post and to be subject to the discipline procedures, rules, protection from industrial action, political activity and responsibility to the public that the office of constable brings.?
Where is the line whereby if you have teach so many skills to a civilian, they may as well be an attested Officer..!
And the point is, we are "policing" from the sky.
Personally I think the TFO role is doomed. Winsor will see to that if NPAS doesn't.
Last edited by morris1; 9th Oct 2012 at 02:31.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
morris1,
In your list of important things that an attested Police Officer brings to the role of TFO,
you forgot one very important one - which is that the experienced Police Officer will also have dealt, first hand, with many CRIMINALS,
and will have learnt, through personal experience, many useful facets of information that all go towards developing that sixth sense
known as the "Coppers Nose", which can't be measured, or even fully explained, but which is often invaluable in the air,
and which can't ( easily ) be taught - but is gained with grass roots Policing.
In your list of important things that an attested Police Officer brings to the role of TFO,
you forgot one very important one - which is that the experienced Police Officer will also have dealt, first hand, with many CRIMINALS,
and will have learnt, through personal experience, many useful facets of information that all go towards developing that sixth sense
known as the "Coppers Nose", which can't be measured, or even fully explained, but which is often invaluable in the air,
and which can't ( easily ) be taught - but is gained with grass roots Policing.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I bet you cant find these with a normal search 
Vacancies
Closing Date 27 Jan 2013
Ref 98M - Sergeant - Base Manager - NPAS . Job Reference: 1304049
Ref 99M - Constable - Tactical Flight Officer - NPAS . Job Reference: 1304033
Vacancies
Closing Date 27 Jan 2013
Ref 98M - Sergeant - Base Manager - NPAS . Job Reference: 1304049
Ref 99M - Constable - Tactical Flight Officer - NPAS . Job Reference: 1304033
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Vacancy reference numberRef 98MDivision/DepartmentWS Territorial Operations
Job DescriptionSECONDMENT TO WEST YORKSHIRE POLICE – POLICE SERGEANT
BASE MANAGER – NATIONAL POLICE AIR SERVICE (NPAS)
SOUTH EAST REGION – REDHILL BASE
Applications are invited from substantive Police Sergeants for a Base Manager post within the National Police Air Service (NPAS) at Redhill Aerodrome, Surrey. Redhill base will operate between 0800 – 0300 hours.
NPAS is a new air support service comprising the Police Air Support Units of England and Wales with West Yorkshire Police being lead Force. It was formed in October 2012 and provides all air support services without force boundaries. Because of this, aircraft and staff are required to operate across several force areas.
The successful candidate will perform Base Manager duties, ensuring high levels of performance of aviation assets, providing leadership and management support to the Tactical Flight Officers (TFO’s) and pilots operating within their scope of operation, and liaison with points of contact within local forces .
Additionally, Base Managers are required to act as police flight crew when required to provide resilience to the TFO staff, providing support to officers on the ground, assisting the pilot and offering advice and expertise to users. Because of this, Base Managers are required to qualify as a TFO.
Base Managers report directly to Regional Managers within the NPAS structure and are expected to attend management and performance meetings, and to undertake additional roles within NPAS beyond the Base Manger day to day role.
Applicants should have good interpersonal skills, demonstrate effective leadership and the ability to manage a diverse team. A high level of self-motivation is essential.
The selection procedure will include an Application Form, Assessment Process, Flight Testing, Interview, Basic Fitness Test and Medical. Initial training comprises a five week TFO Foundation Course beginning on the 7th May 2013.
Awareness days will be held at NPAS bases during January 2013 to enable prospective candidates the opportunity to find out more about the role of NPAS, Base Manager and Tactical Flight Officer posts. Candidates only need to attend ONE of these events.
The Assessment Process will be held during the week commencing the 11th March 2013. Candidates will need to be available for two consecutive days in that week (either 12/13, or 13/14). Details will be notified to candidates that are short listed.
Candidates who are successful in the assessment process will be required to undergo a flight test in the week commencing 2nd April 2013.
Upon successful completion of the flight test interviews will be arranged between 8th April and 19th April 2013.
As this is a secondment you will require permission from your current Force in order to be eligible to apply.
Completed application forms must be submitted by Sunday 27th January 2013. It is essential that candidates are available on the dates indicated above.
Please email NPAS HR Mailbox at [email protected] if you require any further information.
Job DescriptionSECONDMENT TO WEST YORKSHIRE POLICE – POLICE SERGEANT
BASE MANAGER – NATIONAL POLICE AIR SERVICE (NPAS)
SOUTH EAST REGION – REDHILL BASE
Applications are invited from substantive Police Sergeants for a Base Manager post within the National Police Air Service (NPAS) at Redhill Aerodrome, Surrey. Redhill base will operate between 0800 – 0300 hours.
NPAS is a new air support service comprising the Police Air Support Units of England and Wales with West Yorkshire Police being lead Force. It was formed in October 2012 and provides all air support services without force boundaries. Because of this, aircraft and staff are required to operate across several force areas.
The successful candidate will perform Base Manager duties, ensuring high levels of performance of aviation assets, providing leadership and management support to the Tactical Flight Officers (TFO’s) and pilots operating within their scope of operation, and liaison with points of contact within local forces .
Additionally, Base Managers are required to act as police flight crew when required to provide resilience to the TFO staff, providing support to officers on the ground, assisting the pilot and offering advice and expertise to users. Because of this, Base Managers are required to qualify as a TFO.
Base Managers report directly to Regional Managers within the NPAS structure and are expected to attend management and performance meetings, and to undertake additional roles within NPAS beyond the Base Manger day to day role.
Applicants should have good interpersonal skills, demonstrate effective leadership and the ability to manage a diverse team. A high level of self-motivation is essential.
The selection procedure will include an Application Form, Assessment Process, Flight Testing, Interview, Basic Fitness Test and Medical. Initial training comprises a five week TFO Foundation Course beginning on the 7th May 2013.
Awareness days will be held at NPAS bases during January 2013 to enable prospective candidates the opportunity to find out more about the role of NPAS, Base Manager and Tactical Flight Officer posts. Candidates only need to attend ONE of these events.
The Assessment Process will be held during the week commencing the 11th March 2013. Candidates will need to be available for two consecutive days in that week (either 12/13, or 13/14). Details will be notified to candidates that are short listed.
Candidates who are successful in the assessment process will be required to undergo a flight test in the week commencing 2nd April 2013.
Upon successful completion of the flight test interviews will be arranged between 8th April and 19th April 2013.
As this is a secondment you will require permission from your current Force in order to be eligible to apply.
Completed application forms must be submitted by Sunday 27th January 2013. It is essential that candidates are available on the dates indicated above.
Please email NPAS HR Mailbox at [email protected] if you require any further information.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Vacancy reference number99MDivision/DepartmentWS Territorial Operations
Job DescriptionSECONDMENT TO WEST YORKSHIRE POLICE - CONSTABLES
TACTICAL FLIGHT OFFICER - NATIONAL POLICE AIR SERVICE (NPAS)
Applications are invited from Police Constables who have had their probation confirmed, for the post of Tactical Flight Officer (TFO) to create a succession plan within the National Police Air Service (NPAS).
Applications are invited from ALL forces and not restricted to forces currently or previously operating an aircraft.
Vacancies are expected to occur during 2013/14 at all NPAS bases listed below.
NPAS is a new air support service comprising the Police Air Support Units of England and Wales with West Yorkshire Police being lead Force. It was formed in October 2012 and provides all air support services without force boundaries. Because of this, aircraft and TFO’s are required to operate in several force areas in their region.
Successful candidates will perform Police TFO duties, acting as flight crew, navigators and systems operators in Police aircraft, providing support to officers on the ground, assisting the pilot and providing advice and expertise to users.
TFO’s operate at all NPAS bases located throughout the country, and work a variety of shift patterns according to where they work. Some NPAS bases operate 24 hours, and many 20 hours per day.
Applicants should have good interpersonal skills and the ability to work as part of a small team. A high level of self-motivation is essential.
Successful candidates will be posted to their selected NPAS base at the first opportunity. Those officers who are not immediately posted into vacancies will be required to maintain their competence by performing TFO duties on a minimum of two days per month at their selected base. Support from your home force is therefore essential to the success of your application.
The selection procedure will include an Application Form, Assessment Process, Flight Testing, Interview, Basic Fitness Test and Medical. Initial training comprises a five week TFO Foundation Course, and successful candidates will be allocated space on courses beginning on the 7th May or 9th September 2013.
Awareness days will be held at NPAS bases during January 2013 to enable prospective candidates the opportunity to find out more about the role of NPAS and the TFO. Candidates only need to attend ONE of these events.
The Assessment Process will be held during the week commencing the 11th March 2013. Candidates will need to be available for two consecutive days in that week (either 12/13, or 13/14). Details will be notified to candidates that are short listed.
Candidates who are successful in the assessment process will be required to undergo a flight test in the week commencing 2nd April 2013.
Upon successful completion of the flight test interviews will be arranged between 8th April and 19th April 2013.
As this is a secondment you will require permission from your current Force in order to be eligible to apply.
Completed application forms must be submitted by Sunday 27th January 2013.
It is essential that candidates are available on the dates indicated above. Please email NPAS HR Mailbox at [email protected] if you require any further information.
NPAS Base Locations
South East Region (Commenced NPAS Operations 1st October 2012)
RAF Benson
Boreham Airfield
Redhill Airfield
Wattisham Airfield/RAF Honington
North West Region (Commences NPAS Operations 29th January 2013)
Barton Airfield (Manchester)
Hawarden Airport (Nr Chester)
Rhuddlan
BAE Warton
North East Region (Commences NPAS Operations from April 2013)
Durham Tees Valley Airport
Humberside Airport
Newcastle Airport
Sheffield
Wakefield (Carr Gate)
South West Region (Commences NPAS Operations from July 2013)
Bournemouth Airport
Exeter Airport
Filton Airfield
Pembrey Airfield
RAF St. Athan
Central Region (Commences NPAS Operations from October 2013)
Birmingham Airport
Husbands Bosworth Airfield
Ripley (Police HQ)
Wolverhampton (Halfpenny Green Airfield)
Closing Date27 Jan 2013
LocationVariousEstablished grade/salaryConstable
Contracted hoursFull time
Job DescriptionSECONDMENT TO WEST YORKSHIRE POLICE - CONSTABLES
TACTICAL FLIGHT OFFICER - NATIONAL POLICE AIR SERVICE (NPAS)
Applications are invited from Police Constables who have had their probation confirmed, for the post of Tactical Flight Officer (TFO) to create a succession plan within the National Police Air Service (NPAS).
Applications are invited from ALL forces and not restricted to forces currently or previously operating an aircraft.
Vacancies are expected to occur during 2013/14 at all NPAS bases listed below.
NPAS is a new air support service comprising the Police Air Support Units of England and Wales with West Yorkshire Police being lead Force. It was formed in October 2012 and provides all air support services without force boundaries. Because of this, aircraft and TFO’s are required to operate in several force areas in their region.
Successful candidates will perform Police TFO duties, acting as flight crew, navigators and systems operators in Police aircraft, providing support to officers on the ground, assisting the pilot and providing advice and expertise to users.
TFO’s operate at all NPAS bases located throughout the country, and work a variety of shift patterns according to where they work. Some NPAS bases operate 24 hours, and many 20 hours per day.
Applicants should have good interpersonal skills and the ability to work as part of a small team. A high level of self-motivation is essential.
Successful candidates will be posted to their selected NPAS base at the first opportunity. Those officers who are not immediately posted into vacancies will be required to maintain their competence by performing TFO duties on a minimum of two days per month at their selected base. Support from your home force is therefore essential to the success of your application.
The selection procedure will include an Application Form, Assessment Process, Flight Testing, Interview, Basic Fitness Test and Medical. Initial training comprises a five week TFO Foundation Course, and successful candidates will be allocated space on courses beginning on the 7th May or 9th September 2013.
Awareness days will be held at NPAS bases during January 2013 to enable prospective candidates the opportunity to find out more about the role of NPAS and the TFO. Candidates only need to attend ONE of these events.
The Assessment Process will be held during the week commencing the 11th March 2013. Candidates will need to be available for two consecutive days in that week (either 12/13, or 13/14). Details will be notified to candidates that are short listed.
Candidates who are successful in the assessment process will be required to undergo a flight test in the week commencing 2nd April 2013.
Upon successful completion of the flight test interviews will be arranged between 8th April and 19th April 2013.
As this is a secondment you will require permission from your current Force in order to be eligible to apply.
Completed application forms must be submitted by Sunday 27th January 2013.
It is essential that candidates are available on the dates indicated above. Please email NPAS HR Mailbox at [email protected] if you require any further information.
NPAS Base Locations
South East Region (Commenced NPAS Operations 1st October 2012)
RAF Benson
Boreham Airfield
Redhill Airfield
Wattisham Airfield/RAF Honington
North West Region (Commences NPAS Operations 29th January 2013)
Barton Airfield (Manchester)
Hawarden Airport (Nr Chester)
Rhuddlan
BAE Warton
North East Region (Commences NPAS Operations from April 2013)
Durham Tees Valley Airport
Humberside Airport
Newcastle Airport
Sheffield
Wakefield (Carr Gate)
South West Region (Commences NPAS Operations from July 2013)
Bournemouth Airport
Exeter Airport
Filton Airfield
Pembrey Airfield
RAF St. Athan
Central Region (Commences NPAS Operations from October 2013)
Birmingham Airport
Husbands Bosworth Airfield
Ripley (Police HQ)
Wolverhampton (Halfpenny Green Airfield)
Closing Date27 Jan 2013
LocationVariousEstablished grade/salaryConstable
Contracted hoursFull time
Has the decision been made yet about treating TFO's as a technical/specialist position, or will there still be the possibility of a mass walkout (from air support) by police observers due to pay and conditions?