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V22 Osprey discussion thread Mk II

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Old 20th Aug 2013, 13:38
  #381 (permalink)  
 
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Let's discuss the civilian contracted VERTREP program while we are at it.....seems Evergreen and some others are using Puma's and doing a good job replacing Navy aircraft.

I bet Columbia Helicopters, given a fleet of Phrogs....could come up with a similar concept and keep the Navy going for many years at a very low cost compared to the Osprey idea. They have sure kept the BV-107's working in the Woods for over thirty years.

Carson, until their problems with the Forest Service, were doing the same thing for the S-61....carbon blades and the like.

There are other options if the Military will just take their Blinders off.....and quit trying to find ways to keep the Osprey production line going.
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Old 25th Aug 2013, 17:35
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Japanese Osprey Procurement

Govt eyeing Osprey for isles’ defense
August 21, 2013

The Yomiuri Shimbun

The government is expected to adopt the U.S. military’s Osprey transport aircraft for the Self-Defense Forces as early as fiscal 2015, government officials said Tuesday.

The introduction of the tilt-rotor aircraft is aimed at strengthening the defense of remote islands, including the Nansei Islands, the officials said. The Defense Ministry will include about ¥100 million for related research and study expenses in its budget request for the next fiscal year and will seek to coordinate views about where to deploy the aircraft. The fiscal 2014 budget requests must be submitted by the end of this month.

The ministry is considering newly creating an amphibious unit, which would be tasked with defending remote islands, within the SDF. It wants to utilize the Osprey to transport members and equipment of the unit, according to the officials.

The government plans to incorporate the introduction of the Osprey in fiscal 2015 in the National Defense Program Guidelines it will compile at the end of this year and in the midterm defense buildup program, which outlines the nation’s defense buildup plan for the next five years.

A total of ¥8 million was earmarked for Osprey-related research and study expenses in fiscal 2013. The money was used mainly for research activities outsourced to third parties in fiscal 2013. In fiscal 2014, the government plans to significantly increase the appropriation and ask the United States to provide more information about the Osprey’s operation.

According to the officials, the government is considering a plan to include the introduction of about 20 Osprey aircraft in the midterm defense build-up program. However, because the aircraft cost as much as ¥10 billion each, the government will carefully discuss how many to introduce.
The Osprey is currently deployed at Futenma Air Station in Ginowan, Okinawa Prefecture, by the U.S. Marine Corps, but local residents strongly oppose the deployment due to safety concerns.

The government plans to deploy the Osprey after providing information about the safety of the aircraft to the local residents.
The Osprey has a seating capacity of 24 as used by the U.S. Marine Corps. The U.S. military has used the aircraft in rescue missions after natural disasters, including a strong earthquake in Haiti in 2010.

Given the possibility that a megaquake of about magnitude-9 may strike Japan in the future, the ministry is discussing using the Osprey for relief and other activities in the wake of a major natural disaster, the officials said.

In its proposals for the National Defense Program Guidelines that the Liberal Democratic Party made in May, the party called for the introduction of the Osprey, saying, “It [the Osprey] has good mobility and can travel a long distance in a short time.”

Considered a state-of-the-art transport aircraft, the Osprey can take off and land like a helicopter but also fly like a plane. Its fixed wings make it capable of flying at high speeds for long distances. There are two types of the Osprey aircraft—the U.S. Marine Corps’ MV-22 Osprey used for assault landing and transportation, and the U.S. Air Force’s CV-22 Osprey used for special operations.
Govt eyeing Osprey for isles? defense - The Japan News

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Old 25th Aug 2013, 18:06
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A Comical(?) Appendix to the Above from TIME.com...

Even Toy Ships Can’t Escape Islands Dispute
By Kirk Spitzer July 21, 2013

Aoshima Bunka KyouzaishaCover illustration for a model of the JS Hyuga posits a battle over remote islands in Japan -- with U.S. Marine Corps V-22s in the sky, and a sinking Chinese warship in the background.

TOKYO — It’s not every day that the illustration on a box cover for a model warship can annoy the Chinese, alarm the Japanese and amuse the U.S. Marine Corps – not to mention sinking the model ship itself.
But that’s what you get when you mess around with territorial disputes in the East China Sea these days.
This particular saga began about month ago when the Aoshima company introduced an updated version of its popular 1:700 scale model of the JS Hyuga, Japan’s largest and arguably most well-known warship. Hobbyists in Japan spend $500 million a year on scale models and related gear, so it’s a big business.
Being alert to headlines, Aoshima upgraded the Hyuga, a helicopter carrier, with V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft and amphibious assault vehicles, and labeled the model “Operation Remote Island Defense.”
The previous cover showed the Hyuga sailing benignly in open seas. But the new illustration showed the sleek warship with Ospreys buzzing overhead and decks awash with landing vehicles and attack helicopters. In the background was a small island, and nearby was another warship, on fire and sinking below the waves. That warship bore an uncanny resemblance to the Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning, which the PLA Navy launched with much fanfare last year, and is viewed with much suspicion in Japan.
No surprise, then, that the new model quickly sold out.
Japan and China are engaged in an increasingly tense standoff over a group of small, uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, known as Senkaku in Japan, and Diaoyu in China.
Chinese patrol ships have sailed regularly inside the islands’ territorial waters for months, and Chinese frigates have twice locked fire-control radar on Japanese warships and aircraft nearby. Japanese news media have been filled with scenarios – mostly fanciful – wherein Chinese forces occupy Japanese territory and must be pried off by force.
Aoshima benefited from good timing. Just as the new model hit the shelves, U.S. Marines made news by landing a real Osprey on the deck of the actual Hyuga. The test flight took place during a massive amphibious warfare exercise with U.S. forces off the California coast, and drew intense media coverage in Japan.

Japan’s Self Defense Force does not own any Ospreys, but dearly wants to buy some. The V-22 can take off and land like a helicopter, and fly with the speed, range and payload of a fixed-wing aircraft. It is widely seen as ideal for defending remote islands in Japan’s sprawling southwest island chain.
Alas, the timing might have been too good.
Just a few days after the flight, a popular television show produced a lengthy segment on the Osprey that included a remarkably long look at Aoshima’s re-branded model. Panelists on the “7 Days” news and variety show – including popular actor, writer, comedian and film auteur Takeshi Kitano – looked on as presenters visited a model shop in the frenetic Akihabara district and talked at length with Shigeru Ishiba, a former defense minister and current Secretary General of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party.
Ishiba said he liked the model and certainly thought the idea of buying V-22s for Japan’s self defense forces was worth exploring. But he voiced some reservations about the cover illustration.
“The scenario being presented is exactly what we are trying to avoid,” Ishiba said.
The Chinese, ever suspicious of Japan, weren’t so sure about that. Chinese social media cited the model and illustration as further evidence of growing Japanese militarism and hostility towards China.
Apparently, all that was enough for Aoshima. The company stopped shipments of the new model and even pulled the “7 Days” TV segment from a company blog site.
And the Marines?
Well, it seems they kind of liked the illustration. As it happens, the Marines began flying Ospreys from Okinawa’s Futenma Air Base last year. The move provoked considerable protests from residents who were spooked by the aircraft’s early safety problems (though to be honest, the Marines couldn’t hold a bake sale on Okinawa without drawing protests from some quarters). But the Marines have been quick to point out that the Ospreys can put several hundred combat-ready troops anywhere in Japan’s southwestern chain in a matter of hours.
The Marines haven’t commented officially on the great box-cover controversy, but the Marines’ Operations and Intelligence Directorate on Okinawa circulated an analysis – apparently tongue in cheek. It observes that the Ospreys and amphibious landing craft in the illustration appear to be Marine Corps equipment, and notes with apparent approval the “subtle messaging” involved therein.
All of which may be moot. The JMSDF is scheduled to christen a newer, bigger helicopter carrier next month. The new ship, as yet unnamed, will be the largest warship built by Japan since the Second World War.
No word yet on what the illustration for the scale model will look like.
Even Toy Ships Can?t Escape Islands Dispute | TIME.com

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Old 28th Aug 2013, 02:29
  #384 (permalink)  
 
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Two Recent Class As

These didn't get much attention. Both V-22s destroyed (noted in text) The Cut and Paste don't work well.

06/21/2013
Reference
1372172128058
HT ID
Time
1030
Severity
A FM
000000XXX00
VMM-365
Custodian
Fatalities
MV022B
Count
Y
Destroyed
Y
Buno
Major Command
0
166735
MARFORLANT
Acft
VMM-365
Location
Summary
The dash two of a section of MV-22Bs caught grass on fire after landing and burned the a/c fuselage.
ATLANTIC OCEAN (SOUTH) DARE COUNTY TARGET SHORE
Event Cost
$63,483,326
DTG


Aviation Summaries by Date
10/01/2011 to 08/27/2013
Class A Mishaps
Naval Safety Center
Web Enabled Safety System
Rpt No:AV-201
Mishap Date
08/26/2013
Reference
1377564793078
HT ID
Time
1545
Severity
A FM
000000XXX00
VMM-163 MAG-16
Custodian
Fatalities
MV022
Count
Y
Destroyed
Y
Buno
Major Command
0
168241
MARFORPAC
Acft
VMM-163 MAG-16
Location
Summary
MV-22 experienced a hard landing while executing reduced visibility landing practice.
Indian Springs
Event Cost
$0
DTG

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Old 28th Aug 2013, 02:45
  #385 (permalink)  
 
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This news article suggests only minor damage to the aircraft involved in the grass fire on the Bombing Range.

Officials: Osprey causes grass fire in Dare Co. - Military - The Daily News, Jacksonville
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 05:22
  #386 (permalink)  
 
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Angry

So will the v22 be aligned with the r22 one day for safety & reliability ?
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 05:41
  #387 (permalink)  
 
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This is at least the second event of a 22 starting a brush fire that required Forest Fire Crews to respond.....and the second aircraft damaged by the wildfire.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 12:12
  #388 (permalink)  
 
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No "Vertical Freedom" it won't be..but the 332 might be.
Even the R44 will start a grass fire if you're not careful, been out to pick up the mess myself once.
The Bell mediums kill more grass just by leaking oil!
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 14:25
  #389 (permalink)  
 
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These didn't get much attention.
What is "much attention"? Are we supposed to see every Class A incident on the evening news or front page of newspapers? I suppose David Axe and Bob Cox are getting complacent in their old age. (Though Cox would have a hard time penning another V22 hit piece within a Eurocopter press release.) I'm sure Carlton Meyer will have these up on G2mil if he doesnt already, front and center.

There are plenty of new stories about both of them online.

The flagging of the airframe as being "destroyed" in the June incident is dubious

Officials said the aircraft was slightly scorched but was neither caught fire or was badly damaged.
A Marine Corps spokesman says an Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft sparked a grass fire at a Dare County bombing range, resulting in little or no damage to the vehicle.
Spokesman Mike Barton says the aircraft may have been slightly scorched, but did not catch fire and was not badly damaged.

Last edited by SansAnhedral; 28th Aug 2013 at 14:29.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 14:29
  #390 (permalink)  
 
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Sans,

We must remember the USMC has a reputation for understatement when it comes to brush fires and the Osprey. The last time it happened they neglected to admit it required two days to put out the fire and that it burned quite a large area. They got caught out when the NC Forestry folks reported the Fire and the effort it took to extinguish it. Much Egg on some Camp Lejeune PR faces.

I have made inquiries to see what actually happened....as media reports cannot not always be trusted.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 14:50
  #391 (permalink)  
 
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From another story I read from about 5 days afterwards, it was still on the range being inspected.

If that was the case I dont doubt it may have made the $1 million Class A threshold....but entirely written off? I find that harder to believe.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 00:50
  #392 (permalink)  
 
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Both Destroyed

Those summaries are hard to read. The Y after Destroyed means Yes, and N means No, it's repairable. The "event cost" for the June mishap listed there is over $63 million, which I assume is the replacement cost for the aircraft. The second one just happened Monday, and there is no event cost yet, so I assume the Y after Destroyed means the crew reported it's really smashed, and not repairable.

Good to know the crews are okay. In the first mishap, I would assume there was a mechanical problem that prevented it from flying away from the flames. I agree, Class A mishaps are common with helicopters, but the press loves to focus on the V-22 for whatever reason.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 15:35
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Marine units positioned near Syria
Aug. 27, 2013 - 06:00AM


An AV-8B Harrier assigned to Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadon 266, (Reinforced), descends onto the flight deck of the USS Kearsarge as an MV-22B Osprey prepares to takeoff, at sea, May 27, 2013. The 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit is a Marine Air-Ground Task Force forward-deployed to the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility aboard the Kearsarge Amphibious Ready Group serving as a sea-based, expeditionary crisis response force capable of conducting amphibious operations across the full range of military operations. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Christopher Q. Stone/Released) (Sgt. Christopher Q. Stone / U.S. Marines)
Marines in the Middle East, Africa and Europe are poised to reach Syria within hours should President Obama order a strike on the country as officials work to determine whether the government there was involved in a chemical weapons attack against its own people.
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel told BBC television Tuesday that the Defense Department has “moved assets in place to be able to fulfill and comply with whatever option the president wishes to take.”
The Corps has units forward-deployed to the region to deal specifically with crisis response missions, said Capt. Eric Flanagan, a Marine spokesman at the Pentagon. But so far, none have been directed to prepare for a specific mission or deployment, he said.
The various units are there for this type of reason, Flanagan added, and they include the following capabilities:
■ 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit. MEUs typically number about 2,200 Marines and sailors. They operate at sea from Navy amphibious ships and carry infantry, aviation and logistics capabilities. The 26th MEU is distributed among the amphibious assault ship Kearsarge, the amphibious transport dock San Antonio and the amphibious dock landing ship Carter Hall. The Kearsarge is in the United Arab Emirates, southeast of Syria. The Carter Hall was in the Seychelles, off the coast of Africa. And the San Antonio, is in the Gulf of Aden, just south of Syria.
■ Special-Purpose Marine air-ground task force Crisis Response. The Corps’ newest type of unit, the Special-Purpose MAGTF operates like a smaller-sized MEU, but is based on land and operates largely independent of the Navy. The Crisis Response Force deployed to the region is made up of about 550 Marines. Most of the Marines are at Morón Air Base in Spain. A small detachment is based at Naval Air Station Sigonella in Italy. The force is built around a reinforced rifle company and is supported by six MV-22B Ospreys and two KC-130J aerial refuelers.
■ Fleet Anti-terrorism Security Teams. The Marine Corps has four FAST teams deployed to the region — two in U.S. Africa Command and two in Europe Command, Flanagan said. Typically used to respond to threats to embassy security, FAST teams are made up of about 50 Marines who can be called up by combatant commanders in the region to protect vital naval and national assets.
■ 13th MEU. Marines and sailors with the 13th MEU departed from California on Friday. They are headed to the Middle East and North Africa for a six month deployment.
Also in the region are members of Marine Aerial Refueler Transport Squadron 234. Members of VMGR-234 deployed to Naval Air Station Sigonella, Italy, in June. The Marines have been tasked with refueling not only U.S. aircraft, but also aircraft from allied countries, according to a Marine Corps news release. The squadron recently took part in aerial refueling missions to provide fuel in the air for the Moroccan air force.
Flanagan said the forward deployed units are always ready to respond to missions, and are prepared to do so in Syria if ordered. For now, they haven’t been given “prepare to deploy” orders, he said.
“Alert postures change — they go up and down — but we don’t have any details on any change in the last 48 hours,” Flanagan said.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Marine units positioned near Syria | Navy Times | navytimes.com
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Old 6th Sep 2013, 18:10
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V-22 Osprey deploys refueling equipment in flight test
2013-09-05 14:11:50 Bell Boeing Press Release








The Bell Boeing V-22 Program, a strategic alliance between Bell Helicopter Textron Inc. and Boeing, has successfully completed an initial test of the V-22 Osprey performing as an aerial refueling tanker. Adding this capability to the tiltrotor aircraft would further advance its versatility in combat, humanitarian and ship-based operations.


In the August demonstration over north Texas, a V-22 equipped with a prototype aerial refueling system safely deployed, held stable, and retracted the refueling drogue as an F/A-18C and an F/A-18D Hornet flew just behind and to the side of the aircraft.


“Adding aerial refueling tanker capability to the V-22 will enable operators to execute a wider variety of missions with greater flexibility and autonomy,” said Vince Tobin, Bell Boeing V-22 program director. “This will save time and money by maximizing the efficient use of aircraft and personnel.”


Future Bell Boeing tests will put aircraft in a fuel-receiving position directly behind the V-22, connect receiver aircraft with the refueling drogue and, ultimately, refuel a variety of aircraft in flight. The V-22 is a combat-proven tiltrotor that can fly horizontally at high speeds and high altitudes like an airplane, and take off and land vertically like a helicopter.
V-22 Osprey deploys refueling equipment in flight test | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry

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Old 8th Sep 2013, 19:22
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Recent V-22 Mishap in Afghanistan

with a picture and commentary

Milblogging.com : The World's Largest Index of Military Blogs (Milblogs)
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Old 19th Sep 2013, 17:45
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Completely fabricated commentary

The True Story About Viral Osprey Photo - Business Insider

The aviation specialists did an evaluation on the bird and found it to be perfectly flyable. So they winched it into a more level position. "Then the actual squadron commander got in it and flew it out," says Cheek. "We were all cheering him on as he got off the ground, and we could see him do a fist pump right before he flew away."

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Old 28th Oct 2013, 14:00
  #397 (permalink)  
 
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DoD IG: MV-22 squadrons could improve reporting of Mission Capability rates and readiness
From FY 2009 through FY 2011, MV-22 squadron commanders computed the Naval Aviation Maintenance Program MCR for five of the six squadrons using erroneous aircraft inventory reports and work orders. Squadron maintenance personnel improperly recorded MV-22 aircraft status information 167 of 200 times on aircraft inventory reports for out-of-reporting periods; and did not adequately prepare 112 of 907 work orders that we reviewed.

As a result, the MCRs were unreliable, and senior DoD and Marine Corps officials could have deployed MV-22 squadrons that were not prepared for missions.
Meanwhile, Bell is already promoting its 280 kt V-280 Valor next-gen tiltrotor offering for JMR/FVL on a "productivity-per-hour" rather than "cost-per-flying-hour" basis against the 230 kt Sikorsky/Boeing SB>1 Defiant, to avoid the same pitfalls that led to the MV-22 vs. CH-60S debate in the early 2000s.

I/C
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 15:51
  #398 (permalink)  
 
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Ian, MV-22 vs CH-60S was never a like to like capability comparison in the first place. The "Marines in Blackhawks from Amphibs" cost too many manpower billets, part of why it was (thank goodness) not adapted.

CH-60S was, in a lot of ways, a stupid idea that remained stupid. The USN could not afford to build them properly: with the small footprint of the F and B, due to budget constraints of the Clinton era and a "Joint" imperative that had BFA to do with function. On the other hand, it helped keep the Army's multi year UH-60L procurement contracts alive and the industrial base warm ... so it goes. Whatever they were trying to save they spent on the continual systems integration problems getting them into IOC ... late as usual.
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 18:58
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On the upside (and entirely tongue in cheek), at least with MH-60S you wouldn't be stuck with the IDWS overweight pea shooter. 20mm Gatling or 30mm Bushmaster II, the choice is yours!





I/C

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Old 1st Nov 2013, 13:45
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Ah the RAMICS. A structural nightmare with the cantilevered floor mount.

In other news:

Hagel: US To Fast-Track V-22 Sale to Israel | Defense News | defensenews.com

Hagel: US To Fast-Track V-22 Sale to Israel
Oct. 31, 2013 - 08:10PM | By MARCUS WEISGERBER


A US Marines V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft kicks up dust as it takes off in 2010 in Afghanistan. The Pentagon plans to fast track the sale of six Ospreys to Israel, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced Thursday. (Mauricio Lima / AFP)

WASHINGTON – The Pentagon plans to fast track the sale of six Bell-Boeing V-22 Ospreys to Israel, allowing the nation to begin receiving tilt-rotor aircraft in two years, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Thursday.

The deal will allow the Israeli aircraft to jump ahead of US Marine Corps aircraft in the production schedule.

Hagel made the announcement Thursday evening during a speech at the Anti-Defamation League centennial dinner in New York.

The new V-22s will strengthen Israel’s defense capabilities, US officials said.

Prior to Hagel’s visit to Israel earlier this year, the US announced plans to sell Israel the V-22s. Israel is the first foreign purchaser of the advanced tilt-rotor aircraft, which can take off and land like a helicopter, and rotate its propellers in flight, allowing it to fly fast like a fixed-wing plane.

Earlier this week, following its annual budget review process, Israel sent DoD an official request to acquire six V-22s, according to a senior defense official.

“To ensure that Israel receives the V-22s as soon as possible, the United States Marine Corps is moving Israel to the top of the production line,” the official said. “As such, the United States will fold Israel’s request into the next lot of aircraft to go onto the assembly line, and the Marine Corps will recoup its aircraft at a later date.”

This will allow Israel to start taking deliveries of Ospreys “modified to meet specific requirements” of the Israeli Defense Forces, in roughly two years, the officials said.

The V-22 is made by Bell Helicopter and Boeing. The aircraft is flown by the US Marine Corps and Air Force.
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