V22 Osprey discussion thread Mk II
Full Support Program costs would run that 70 Million per aircraft cost much higher if applied on a per unit cost method.
I am sure spare parts and over haul costs get a bit spendy in very short order.
I am sure spare parts and over haul costs get a bit spendy in very short order.
Sas,
For sure, but I quoted the unit cost (Flyaway cost). Seemed that there was an understanding that the V22s, would cost the Japanese 238 Billion alone which would be a whole load of spares if that was the case...
For sure, but I quoted the unit cost (Flyaway cost). Seemed that there was an understanding that the V22s, would cost the Japanese 238 Billion alone which would be a whole load of spares if that was the case...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bury St. Edmunds
Age: 64
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sat 21st December - South Sudan
Apparently 3 CV-22's took hits from ground fire and had to abort their mission to rescue US citizens caught up in the fighting in South Sudan.
4 crew were hit and wounded. Does anyone have further details?
"At the request of the Department of State, the United States Africa Command, utilizing forces from Combined Joint Task Force - Horn of Africa (CJTF-HOA), attempted to evacuate U.S. citizens from the town of Bor, South Sudan, today. As the aircraft, three CV-22 Ospreys, were approaching the town they were fired on by small arms fire by unknown forces. All three aircraft sustained damage during the engagement. Four service members onboard the aircraft were wounded during the engagement.
The damaged aircraft diverted to Entebbe, Uganda, where the wounded were transferred onboard a U.S. Air Force C-17 and flown to Nairobi, Kenya for medical treatment.All four service members were treated and are in stable condition."
Africom statement
4 crew were hit and wounded. Does anyone have further details?
"At the request of the Department of State, the United States Africa Command, utilizing forces from Combined Joint Task Force - Horn of Africa (CJTF-HOA), attempted to evacuate U.S. citizens from the town of Bor, South Sudan, today. As the aircraft, three CV-22 Ospreys, were approaching the town they were fired on by small arms fire by unknown forces. All three aircraft sustained damage during the engagement. Four service members onboard the aircraft were wounded during the engagement.
The damaged aircraft diverted to Entebbe, Uganda, where the wounded were transferred onboard a U.S. Air Force C-17 and flown to Nairobi, Kenya for medical treatment.All four service members were treated and are in stable condition."
Africom statement
You really have to give 21stCentury credit for posting this New York Times article. I’d say it took a lot of intestinal fortitude to post something as unflattering to the V-22 as this. Kudos!
We’ve always been lead to believe that the military has been sending the V-22s into “combat,” and that their record in such situations has been spectacular. An unqualified success! Proponents of the tilt-rotor laud its advantages over a conventional helicopter: Virtually undetectable as it approaches at the speed of light using the element of surprise; gets-in-and-gets-out-quick and then departs, also at the speed of light. Who needs guns? Who needs air cover? The V-22 is the all-singing, all-dancing, do-it-all wonder aircraft of the…well, 21st Century.
And now this: A flight of three V-22s goes into Bor, South Sudan, a most God-forsaken place in a desolate part of Africa that’s flatter than Louisiana, consisting of fairly barren land and low residential buildings - tents and mudhuts, mostly...thatch-roof, bamboo-wall shacks that would make the ones on "Gilligan's Island" seem like luxury condos. Bor, a "city" of 20,000 people (except during refugee season when that number doubles). I GoogleEarth'd it and saw very few large structures of any kind – not even at the terminal-less, dirt-runway airport, and a startling lack of motor vehicles, running water and, apparently, sewage-treatment facilities...but nevertheless not enough room to land an R-22 much less three V-22s.
Bor looks so far removed from modern civilization that one could safely assume they’re still using horses pulling carts with square-wheels because nobody has invented the round one yet. Pictures show the usual shots of smiling, naked black people swimming and bathing in mud puddles. Some of the more modest adult population wear old, discarded Walmart clothing, giving them an ironically colorful appearance. (Please, can we stop with the Louisiana comparisons already? Sheesh!)
The more you learn about South Sudan, the more you come to wonder why any person with a proton of sanity would fight over it. Is power that addicting, that people will fight over even the most worthless piece of crap terrain on the planet? Apparently. Then here comes the U.N., to rescue and provide shelter for some 14,000 refugees in harm’s way. And then here comes the U.S. military, to rescue the people rescuing the refugees in harm’s way. Sounds like a plan, doesn’t it? No, it sounds like the script of a bad comedy-action movie starring Charlie Sheen...or it would if it wasn’t so tragic.
Okay, so what happened?
Wow. Small arms fire? Really? What are we talking here, pistols and slingshots? Wow.
All three V-22s were damaged, although we don’t know how badly, but they apparently remained flyable. And not only that, four servicemen were injured: one very seriously. News reports say that the injuries occurred on more than one V-22. The aircraft aborted their mission and then (again,according to other news sources) beat feet southbound to Uganda. Then the injured were flown to Nairobi, presumably in something safer than a V-22...which (late edit), according to Madbob's post was a C-17, an aircraft that actually can fly high and fast and out of range of small-arms fire.
As the V-22s began taking fire, we can imagine the crew chief stationed with his puny mini-gun on the rear ramp, yelling over the intercom, “Come on Skipper, pedal turn this bitch around so I can get a shot at them!! There's nothing to shoot at in this barren, God-forsaken place - not even a nutria!”
This incident legitimately calls into question the honesty of the U.S. military when it comes to how they are actually using the V-22. I guarantee you that, if this story is true and not made up, then V-22s have not been sent into “hot” LZs…or any place where there might actually be some real “combat” or armed opposition...or at least, an LZ that hasn't already been carpet-bombed "back to the Stone Age" by a squadron of B-52's.
Not a very good showing of the V-22, I’d say…except that we now know that it can run far and fast with its twin tails tucked between its legs if it encounters small-arms fire upon arriving at a contested LZ. I don’t know about you, but I’m sure glad these “unknown forces” didn’t have anything more powerful than the aforementioned pistols and slingshots. Did the rebel forces know that the V-22 was utterly defenseless from the front? We shudder to think of the outcome if they’d gotten their hands on something as sophisticated as a, ohhhh, grenade launcher…or even a WWI-era cannon stolen from the world-renown Bor Museum of Natural History and Armed Conflict.
Good thing it wasn’t an actual, you know, war zone.
We’ve always been lead to believe that the military has been sending the V-22s into “combat,” and that their record in such situations has been spectacular. An unqualified success! Proponents of the tilt-rotor laud its advantages over a conventional helicopter: Virtually undetectable as it approaches at the speed of light using the element of surprise; gets-in-and-gets-out-quick and then departs, also at the speed of light. Who needs guns? Who needs air cover? The V-22 is the all-singing, all-dancing, do-it-all wonder aircraft of the…well, 21st Century.
And now this: A flight of three V-22s goes into Bor, South Sudan, a most God-forsaken place in a desolate part of Africa that’s flatter than Louisiana, consisting of fairly barren land and low residential buildings - tents and mudhuts, mostly...thatch-roof, bamboo-wall shacks that would make the ones on "Gilligan's Island" seem like luxury condos. Bor, a "city" of 20,000 people (except during refugee season when that number doubles). I GoogleEarth'd it and saw very few large structures of any kind – not even at the terminal-less, dirt-runway airport, and a startling lack of motor vehicles, running water and, apparently, sewage-treatment facilities...but nevertheless not enough room to land an R-22 much less three V-22s.
Bor looks so far removed from modern civilization that one could safely assume they’re still using horses pulling carts with square-wheels because nobody has invented the round one yet. Pictures show the usual shots of smiling, naked black people swimming and bathing in mud puddles. Some of the more modest adult population wear old, discarded Walmart clothing, giving them an ironically colorful appearance. (Please, can we stop with the Louisiana comparisons already? Sheesh!)
The more you learn about South Sudan, the more you come to wonder why any person with a proton of sanity would fight over it. Is power that addicting, that people will fight over even the most worthless piece of crap terrain on the planet? Apparently. Then here comes the U.N., to rescue and provide shelter for some 14,000 refugees in harm’s way. And then here comes the U.S. military, to rescue the people rescuing the refugees in harm’s way. Sounds like a plan, doesn’t it? No, it sounds like the script of a bad comedy-action movie starring Charlie Sheen...or it would if it wasn’t so tragic.
Okay, so what happened?
As the aircraft approached the town,“they were fired on by small-arms fire by unknown forces,” the military said in a statement. All three aircraft were damaged.
Wow. Small arms fire? Really? What are we talking here, pistols and slingshots? Wow.
All three V-22s were damaged, although we don’t know how badly, but they apparently remained flyable. And not only that, four servicemen were injured: one very seriously. News reports say that the injuries occurred on more than one V-22. The aircraft aborted their mission and then (again,according to other news sources) beat feet southbound to Uganda. Then the injured were flown to Nairobi, presumably in something safer than a V-22...which (late edit), according to Madbob's post was a C-17, an aircraft that actually can fly high and fast and out of range of small-arms fire.
As the V-22s began taking fire, we can imagine the crew chief stationed with his puny mini-gun on the rear ramp, yelling over the intercom, “Come on Skipper, pedal turn this bitch around so I can get a shot at them!! There's nothing to shoot at in this barren, God-forsaken place - not even a nutria!”
This incident legitimately calls into question the honesty of the U.S. military when it comes to how they are actually using the V-22. I guarantee you that, if this story is true and not made up, then V-22s have not been sent into “hot” LZs…or any place where there might actually be some real “combat” or armed opposition...or at least, an LZ that hasn't already been carpet-bombed "back to the Stone Age" by a squadron of B-52's.
Not a very good showing of the V-22, I’d say…except that we now know that it can run far and fast with its twin tails tucked between its legs if it encounters small-arms fire upon arriving at a contested LZ. I don’t know about you, but I’m sure glad these “unknown forces” didn’t have anything more powerful than the aforementioned pistols and slingshots. Did the rebel forces know that the V-22 was utterly defenseless from the front? We shudder to think of the outcome if they’d gotten their hands on something as sophisticated as a, ohhhh, grenade launcher…or even a WWI-era cannon stolen from the world-renown Bor Museum of Natural History and Armed Conflict.
Good thing it wasn’t an actual, you know, war zone.
Last edited by FH1100 Pilot; 23rd Dec 2013 at 14:38.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bury St. Edmunds
Age: 64
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update from ASN.....
Date:21-DEC-2013Time:Type:
Bell-Boeing CV-22 Osprey Owner/operator:United States Air Force (USAF)Registration:C/n / msn:Fatalities:Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: Other fatalities:0Airplane damage: SubstantialLocation:Near Bor, the capital of Jonglei state -
South Sudan Phase: ApproachNature:MilitaryDeparture airport
estination airport:Bor, the capital of Jonglei stateNarrative:
“At the request of the Department of State, the United States Africa Command, utilizing forces from Combined Joint Task Force-Horn of Africa (CJTF-HOA), attempted to evacuate U.S. citizens from the town of Bor, South Sudan, today.
“As the aircraft, three CV-22 Ospreys, were approaching the town they were fired on by small-arms fire by unknown forces. All three aircraft sustained damage during the engagement. Four service members onboard the aircraft were wounded during the engagement.
“The damaged aircraft diverted to Entebbe, Uganda, where the wounded were transferred onboard a U.S. Air Force C-17 and flown to Nairobi, Kenya, for medical treatment.
“All four service members were treated and are in stable condition.”
Sources:
Defense.gov News Article: Ground Fire Injures 4 U.S. Troops in South Sudan US Defense Department
US military aircraft hit in S. Sudan - Middle East - Stripes
Date:21-DEC-2013Time:Type:
Bell-Boeing CV-22 Osprey Owner/operator:United States Air Force (USAF)Registration:C/n / msn:Fatalities:Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: Other fatalities:0Airplane damage: SubstantialLocation:Near Bor, the capital of Jonglei state -
South Sudan Phase: ApproachNature:MilitaryDeparture airportestination airport:Bor, the capital of Jonglei stateNarrative:“At the request of the Department of State, the United States Africa Command, utilizing forces from Combined Joint Task Force-Horn of Africa (CJTF-HOA), attempted to evacuate U.S. citizens from the town of Bor, South Sudan, today.
“As the aircraft, three CV-22 Ospreys, were approaching the town they were fired on by small-arms fire by unknown forces. All three aircraft sustained damage during the engagement. Four service members onboard the aircraft were wounded during the engagement.
“The damaged aircraft diverted to Entebbe, Uganda, where the wounded were transferred onboard a U.S. Air Force C-17 and flown to Nairobi, Kenya, for medical treatment.
“All four service members were treated and are in stable condition.”
Sources:
Defense.gov News Article: Ground Fire Injures 4 U.S. Troops in South Sudan US Defense Department
US military aircraft hit in S. Sudan - Middle East - Stripes
The event does beg some questions as to how it all happened.
Did the three aircraft make the attempted landings in day light or at night?
What kind of security was in effect around the landing area? Who was in charge of that security? What kind of arms and equipment did the US Troops have and what actions had they taken to secure or assist in securing the Air Strip.
Were there SpecOps guys or similar sources of Intel used who could give real time information on the situation on the ground? Were they adequately deployed to facilitate that?
Was the C-17 part of a Contingency Plan pre-positioned at Nairobi or Entebbe?
How much advance notice did the Osprey Crews have of the flight?
Did the three aircraft attempt a simultaneous Tactical style landing or did they orbit the airstrip with the intent to land one at a time?
Were they attempting to provide their own "Air Cover" using the single ramp gun each aircraft is equipped with?
Did they even have the Ramp guns installed? Did they return fire?
Did the three aircraft make the attempted landings in day light or at night?
What kind of security was in effect around the landing area? Who was in charge of that security? What kind of arms and equipment did the US Troops have and what actions had they taken to secure or assist in securing the Air Strip.
Were there SpecOps guys or similar sources of Intel used who could give real time information on the situation on the ground? Were they adequately deployed to facilitate that?
Was the C-17 part of a Contingency Plan pre-positioned at Nairobi or Entebbe?
How much advance notice did the Osprey Crews have of the flight?
Did the three aircraft attempt a simultaneous Tactical style landing or did they orbit the airstrip with the intent to land one at a time?
Were they attempting to provide their own "Air Cover" using the single ramp gun each aircraft is equipped with?
Did they even have the Ramp guns installed? Did they return fire?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UAE
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FH1100 says:
Some of us look at both sides of the issues. Perhaps a lesson to be learned by others?
FH1100 says:
Answer:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/wo...uth-sudan.html
You really have to give 21stCentury credit for posting this New York Times article. I’d say it took a lot of intestinal fortitude to post something as unflattering to the V-22 as this. Kudos!
FH1100 says:
Wow. Small arms fire? Really? What are we talking here, pistols and slingshots? Wow.
About 2,000 armed youths have surrounded the United Nations base in Bor. It has been difficult for American officials to get in touch with local rebel commanders there to establish what areas they might control amid signs that the fighting may be escalating into a broader ethnic conflict.
Last edited by 21stCen; 23rd Dec 2013 at 17:10.
21st.....FH has never been accused of that as I recall!
Certainly no reason to start now either as I see it.
Certainly no reason to start now either as I see it.
I see this as being a 4300 KM flight with no reserves, no Loiter time, no other allowance for start, take off, approaches and landing(s).
MC-130's involved?
AC-130's perhaps?
Approximately 3400 KM's to Bor and 900 to Entebbe.
That fit with an un-refuelled flight scenario....assuming Entebbe was the intended Exfil Destination?
Which would mean US Forces at both Bor, Entebbe, and Nairobi.
As an aside.....how far from Sigonella to Benghazi....about 2300 KM?
Shame we had no troops or CV-22's in Sigonella back during that tragedy where Four Americans got killed.
MC-130's involved?
AC-130's perhaps?
Approximately 3400 KM's to Bor and 900 to Entebbe.
That fit with an un-refuelled flight scenario....assuming Entebbe was the intended Exfil Destination?
Which would mean US Forces at both Bor, Entebbe, and Nairobi.
As an aside.....how far from Sigonella to Benghazi....about 2300 KM?
Shame we had no troops or CV-22's in Sigonella back during that tragedy where Four Americans got killed.
About 2,000 armed youths have surrounded the United Nations base in Bor.
"2,000 armed youths." Hmm. I seriously doubt all "2,000" of them were armed with actual, working guns with bullets. Given the remote location of Bor, I seriously doubt the rebel leaders could coordinate to get 2,000 daily bowls of rice to feed them, much less 2,000 bullets. We don't know what they were armed with, but we can assume though that all "2,000" armed youths did not run from the U.N. camp in their loincloths and bare feet to the LZ, considering that there is only a handful vehicles in Bor at any given time, and most of them are small trucks. I didn't notice a big fuel depot either. And anyway, who would've been left to surround the UN compound?
Since all three V-22s were damaged by "small-arms fire" and there were injuries on more than one aircraft, we can infer that they were all on the ground.
Sounds to me like another one of the U.S. military's patented, hare-brained schemes to "rescue" some people that went awry. I'd love to meet the guy who planned this one out. I wonder if they'll let him in on the planning for the next rescue attempt...you know, the one that doesn't involve V-22s?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UAE
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FH1100 says:
In addition to your lack of knowledge of tiltrotor technology, you have now demonstrated your ignorance of knowledge of the political situation in South Sudan. One of the basic underlying problems is that 'bullets and arms' are overwhelmingly available, whereas 'rice, water, and other life sustaining amenities' are not. That is the problem...
It is the Fool who thinks he is the wise man...
"2,000 armed youths." Hmm. I seriously doubt all "2,000" of them were armed with actual, working guns with bullets. Given the remote location of Bor, I seriously doubt the rebel leaders could coordinate to get 2,000 daily bowls of rice to feed them, much less 2,000 bullets.
It is the Fool who thinks he is the wise man...
Last edited by 21stCen; 23rd Dec 2013 at 18:59.
I am thinking here that DB passed off his Shovel to FH.....as this hole is getting deeper each time I check in.
FH....until you know what happened....perhaps a bit of circumspection is in order.
Our Lads and Lasses out there do a darn good job and every now and then things do go wrong when you are perched way out there at the very tip end of the spear you know.
I am very glad they are all still with us and pray for speedy and complete recoveries for those that got hurt. I very much respect them for the risks they are willing to take for the rest of us.
Answering my own question using Boeing info.....it would seem even with internal Aux Fuel....there had to have been some AAR going on to accomplish the mission......or some FARP's along the way.
Range....
Unrefueled mission radius with 24 troops, nm (km) -- 390 (722)
Self-deployment, nm (km) -- > 2,100 (3,892) with refueling
FH....until you know what happened....perhaps a bit of circumspection is in order.
Our Lads and Lasses out there do a darn good job and every now and then things do go wrong when you are perched way out there at the very tip end of the spear you know.
I am very glad they are all still with us and pray for speedy and complete recoveries for those that got hurt. I very much respect them for the risks they are willing to take for the rest of us.
Answering my own question using Boeing info.....it would seem even with internal Aux Fuel....there had to have been some AAR going on to accomplish the mission......or some FARP's along the way.
Range....
Unrefueled mission radius with 24 troops, nm (km) -- 390 (722)
Self-deployment, nm (km) -- > 2,100 (3,892) with refueling
Last edited by SASless; 23rd Dec 2013 at 19:21.
IIRC from when I worked with CENTAF, anything under 23mm was "small arms" in the daily SAFIRE report on who was shooting at our aircraft with what. this means that a 20mm or .50 cal anti aircraft weapon was small arms.
While it is more likely that AK-47 and things like a 7.62 M-60 light machine gun, or its equivalent depending upon what arms are generally in use in the area, would be to hand for the folks bearing arms down there, such small arms have sufficielt metal in them, particularly in when thrown into the air in volume, to put a serious crimp in an air assault or airevac operation.
If anyone doubts me, consider the infamouss large scale Apache deep strike during the 2003 attack into Iraq ...
While it is more likely that AK-47 and things like a 7.62 M-60 light machine gun, or its equivalent depending upon what arms are generally in use in the area, would be to hand for the folks bearing arms down there, such small arms have sufficielt metal in them, particularly in when thrown into the air in volume, to put a serious crimp in an air assault or airevac operation.
If anyone doubts me, consider the infamouss large scale Apache deep strike during the 2003 attack into Iraq ...
It only takes one Round in the exact right place.....and when you got lots and lots of guys emptying their mag's at you with AK's, long belts of ammo for RPD's, and other shoulder arms....from very close range...they can be very effective up to about 1,000 feet AGL.
Add into the mix some .51 Caliber Machineguns.....which are very common in that part of the World (think Technicals if you will)....they can knock big bits off your Bird up to about 5,000 feet.....as memory serves me. Up close those Tracers look like Soccer Balls going by!
The Osprey has ballistic tolerance built into it.....and the crew wears Body Armor....but there are plenty of exposed hide that could be hit. Flight helmets are good...but not bullet proof.
The ambush cited by Lone is an example of low tech, but smart folks, taking on more sophisticated forces and winning. They basically used Cell Phones and small arms to put a whacking on the Army Apaches.....ultimately capturing two Pilots after they were shot down.
Apache pilots turned back by curtain of fire
Add into the mix some .51 Caliber Machineguns.....which are very common in that part of the World (think Technicals if you will)....they can knock big bits off your Bird up to about 5,000 feet.....as memory serves me. Up close those Tracers look like Soccer Balls going by!
The Osprey has ballistic tolerance built into it.....and the crew wears Body Armor....but there are plenty of exposed hide that could be hit. Flight helmets are good...but not bullet proof.
The ambush cited by Lone is an example of low tech, but smart folks, taking on more sophisticated forces and winning. They basically used Cell Phones and small arms to put a whacking on the Army Apaches.....ultimately capturing two Pilots after they were shot down.
Apache pilots turned back by curtain of fire
Last edited by SASless; 23rd Dec 2013 at 21:35.
It is the Fool who thinks he is the wise man...
Too bad you don't take your own advice. You ought to some time.
What the "2,000 youths" had in their possession is beside the point, and it's just dumb to try and cloud the discussion. Three angry naked black kids with spears and good aim could've ended the whole mission. Maybe only two. So regardless of whether these "rebel forces" had slingshots, peashooters, AK47s or howitzers, the fact is that the U.S. sent in three V-22s to a known conflict area without, apparently, any protection.
And then got three of them shot up.
And got four of our guys shot up as well.
And then the three ships had to get the hell out of there without accomplishing anything except wasting a bunch of gas and even more of our taxpayer money, and showing us (as if we needed proof) that the "quick in-and-out" ability of the Osprey...really...ain't...worth much in the long run.
And on top of all that, but nobody even says, "WTF are we *doing* there??" The UN has airplanes, doesn't it? Send one of those!
Hey, if the military just wanted to get an airplane shot up, they could've sent one single C-130 with some extra guys with guns. I mean, fer cryin' out loud, there's an AIRPORT right near Bor! Or two C-130s: the second one being an AC-130 so it could lay down some suppressive fire and maybe even carry the people out if the first C-130 got a chip light or something that would render it out of service. It still would've been cheaper and more effective than that V-22 dog-and-pony show.
Which is all it was, come on, let's be real. Some genius general full of hubris wanted to show the world (and skeptics like me) yet another use for the V-22 to prove that it's just, you know, indispensible for the modern warfighter which is what we used to call a "soldier." Or maybe they wanted to prove it to the Israelis or the Japanese, the other potential buyers of this Turkey...sorry, Osprey. Let's hope they don't have the NYT in Isreael or Japan.
FH
Amateur! No one died. No aircraft lost and the aircraft were able to recover to a base a long way away (keeping it simple for you). Pros always balance risk versus reward. It was best to abort and go home. In the end everyone they were going in for made it out for a mission accomplished.
Now are you going to tell us how the Seals who aborted their mission in Somalia are cowards?
The Sultan
Amateur! No one died. No aircraft lost and the aircraft were able to recover to a base a long way away (keeping it simple for you). Pros always balance risk versus reward. It was best to abort and go home. In the end everyone they were going in for made it out for a mission accomplished.
Now are you going to tell us how the Seals who aborted their mission in Somalia are cowards?
The Sultan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mansfield, TX
Age: 48
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about the fact that once it got ugly, the legs and speed of the V22 gave the most seriously wounded SEAL a better chance of surviving by getting him on the operating table over 500 miles away faster than any other DoD asset could have? Sure nobody wants the good guys to get shot. But once they do, getting them to help in the golden hour has to be worth something, no?
The Sultan:
Mission accomplished??? Who are you, GWB? And anyway, where did you read/hear that?? The mission was NOT accomplished. What part of "mission aborted" do you not understand? In my language (English) "mission aborted" does not mean the same thing as "mission accomplished." Perhaps it does on your planet.
If everyone they were going for made it out, they certainly did not do so in an V-22. Oh yeah, there's one little detail: nobody has "made it out" yet. The USMC has positioned troops over there and are still trying to figure out what to do. But you can bet that whatever action they end up taking won't involve any more V-22s. One of those 2,000 kiddie warriors...sorry, "armed youths" might throw a rock at it and put it out of service.
Check out this Washington Post article, filed today:
Marines in position to help with possible South Sudan evacuation - The Washington Post
In the end everyone they were going in for made it out for a mission accomplished.
If everyone they were going for made it out, they certainly did not do so in an V-22. Oh yeah, there's one little detail: nobody has "made it out" yet. The USMC has positioned troops over there and are still trying to figure out what to do. But you can bet that whatever action they end up taking won't involve any more V-22s. One of those 2,000 kiddie warriors...sorry, "armed youths" might throw a rock at it and put it out of service.
Check out this Washington Post article, filed today:
Marines in position to help with possible South Sudan evacuation - The Washington Post
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mansfield, TX
Age: 48
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey FH, you don't think that the Marines have MV-22s with them when they came over from Spain? Current "norm" is that V22s are part of a MAGTF deployment. So we should expect they will be used to insert any armed forces that are called to duty.