PPRuNe Forums

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th Apr 2012, 21:53   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 767
Interesting US AOPA Article about EASA approach to FAA licenses

New Pilot Rules In Effect In Europe

April 8, 2012
New Pilot Rules In Effect In Europe By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief

New rules for foreign pilots and foreign registered aircraft in Europe came into effect on Saturday and, depending on how member states of the European Union are implementing them, could mean that your FAA, Transport Canada or other pilot certificate or ratings are no longer recognized by the European Aviation Safety Agency. EASA Part FCL homogenizes crew licensing requirements in all EU states and essentially means that those who want to fly in the EU have to prove competence and compliance with EU rules, rather than just use the credentials of their home country. Depending on the kind of flying involved, it can be a time-consuming and costly endeavor to earn those flight privileges, particularly for IFR.

In an editorial, German magazine Pilot und Flugzeug Editor Jan Brill says the new rule ignores acceptance of European qualifications in other GA nations and makes it costly and inconvenient for those licensed elsewhere to fly in Europe. "We insult our aviation-friends all over the world by rendering their certificates worthless, we repay the openness extended by nations such as Canada, Australia or the United States by pettiness and arrogance," Brill wrote. "To anyone who knows how to fly an aircraft, we're presenting Europe at it's very, very worst." Although the new rules theoretically took effect on April 8, some countries have implemented a two-year grace period.

How do people feel about this?
AnFI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Apr 2012, 22:31   #2 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Behind the curve
Posts: 255
Pilots from outwith EASA land should be treated no differently from the way they were treated before the new rules came into effect.

As visitors, their licences and ratings should have the same validity as hitherto.

If they come to live and work permanently here, then they should be assessed in the same way as all EASA citizens.

Perhaps my opinion is already what has effect under the new dispensation, but I don't know and don't intend to research it.
Colibri49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Apr 2012, 09:52   #3 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 78
Another article in English & German:

Pilot und Flugzeug - Aktuelles - Dear International Pilots, You Are <u>Not Welcome</u> In Europe
FullTravelFree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Apr 2012, 13:07   #4 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Essex
Age: 47
Posts: 100
Non-EASA licenses

From CAA site:


Q.26 I have a licence issued by a non-EASA country (e.g. USA), how will the changes affect me?

Currently the UK Air Navigation Order gives a permanent validation of non-UK ICAO licences that allows the holders of those licences to fly UK-registered aircraft for private purposes only. With the implementation of European regulations, including the use of the derogations by the UK, this UK validation will remain for private flights until 8th April 2014. From that date forward the UK validation will be valid only for non-EASA aircraft registered in the UK.

So for private flyers at least, two year stay of execution...by which time it will only be commercial and the super rich private flyers who can afford to

I wonder if those member states such as US will reciprocate?
s1lverback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Apr 2012, 13:20   #5 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: yorkshire uk
Posts: 1,258
its all nonsense . Carry on flying as nobody checks licences anyway
nigelh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Apr 2012, 13:40   #6 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 355
After a long and careful assessment of the safety factors, EASA have obviously come to the conclusion that when the day added to the month equals the last two digits of the year, all foreign licence holders become flight safety risks and must be grounded.
I think it's outrageous that the CAA is playing fast and loose with our lives, allowing these now-dangerous individuals to take to the air willy-nilly for the next two years.
And we should insist that EASA licence holders are at the controls of _every_ aircraft that flies into or out of European airspace as well. Otherwise who knows what mayhem may result?
Robbo Jock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 14:14   #7 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 69
Posts: 1,231
when I have Breakfast with my Congressman next week....I shall tell him of all this....and suggest that the US FAA should do exactly as EASA is doing. We should continue to recognize all Non-EASA licenses as before....and take the new posture re EASA licenses as EASA is doing to us. Fair is Fair!

As it will be self evident how Aviation in EASA land is becoming a thing for the rich....my money says Barry Obama will see a new way to target the Rich Non-African American's who want to spend so extravagantly in his realm.

Prepare to "spread your wealth around" folks.....perhaps we can call this change in FAA policy the "Stall Buffett Rule".
SASless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 14:44   #8 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: yorkshire uk
Posts: 1,258
If i was the FAA i would ban all flying by EASA pilots in US airspace .....stick it up em
As for being expensive ..yes it is ...it will cost me ( if i bother do it ) around around $20k to keep flying legal after this ...and thats just PPL
nigelh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 16:47   #9 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Iceland
Posts: 28
We mortal and poor pilots have been complaining for years about the heading the training regulations have taken. We have not been heard nor will we be in the years to come.

JAR OPS/EU OPS and finally EASA PART FCL have approach is of pure and simple arrogance. The regulator and authorities have lost their focus on the most important stuff and are busy celebrating endless nitpicky facts.

Maybe the only way to lobby them and get some of this nonsense alleviated is for the FAA and other authorities to suspend their validations of foreign licenses as SASless proposes. It would us pilots badly, but might create the political storm we need to turn them of this path!

This move EASA’s behalf seems to threaten the ICAO rules and regulations.

We have lost in most parts the battle for a just, simple and cost effective regulatory structure for the issuance of licenses, ratings and medicals. Common sense is not so common and/or is being ignored completely.
IceHeli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 17:10   #10 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Italy
Age: 30
Posts: 31
Oh my God! Another one damn' regulation

Hi all folks,
I'm Italian with a JAA CPL (H) and..I definitively hate how EASA/JAA and anyone else in Europe is acting to regulated the, so damn' called, aviation in my area.
Why, and I say again, WHY should they close the door in front of everyone holding another license? Why, should they prevent non EASA pilot to fly in our environment too??
Also the regulation related to Conversions, seems to me so wrong and now they have fu..ed all up, writing this stupid rule.

As a JAA licensed one, I've nothing to loose but... I'm for a open world and... they're acting exactly in the opposite way.

Thanks EASA, we lost the last chance to be credible in the aviation world.

Disappointed, totally disappointed

PapaechoIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 17:26   #11 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Beside the seaside
Posts: 670
Last time I hired an N reg aeroplane in USA the flight school insisted that I had an FAA licence. You telling me that those Goddam Yanks ripped me off and I could have used my JAR licence??
Epiphany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 20:23   #12 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Italy
Age: 30
Posts: 31

We know for sure that if you want to fly a N registered aircraft/rotorcraft, also if it is based in Europe, you need a FAA License.

To do that a conversion is possible with a consolidated exam, a bunch of hours and a flight check, maximum one week and you have done.

But now, EASA (European Aviation SCREWING Agency) have generated a new rule, stating that every pilot non-EASA, could not fly inside the EASA environment with their license. And, you know well, the FAA/CASA/TC to EASA/JAA conversion, isn't as simple as the JAA to EASA/TC conversion.

PapaechoIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 21:13   #13 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 761
Re-check your knowledge:

FAR § 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.

(a) Pilot certificate. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person—

(1) Has a pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization.
However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used
GoodGrief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:06   #14 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kings Caple, Ross-on-Wye.orPiccots End. Hertfordshire
Posts: 459
EASA Mad Land

As a 14,000 hours plus guy, I'm now being told that under EASA rules, my CAA/JAR ATPL(H) which I've held since 1976 can only be converted and re-issued as a CPL. (plus a couple of hundred pounds and 50 hours in a twin) ) Not that I care too much being on the verge of full retirement, but how's that for idiocy. Dennis K.
DennisK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:18   #15 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Escrick York england
Posts: 1,467
Goodgrief you said
However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used;

So if in the uk a pilot can fly a n reg on a uk licence. But can he fly on a easa licence, the easa licence is a Europe licence and its issue is stateless and its not a uk licence
md 600 driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:18   #16 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Belgium
Age: 54
Posts: 494
Don't see the problem at all. They've been talking about thos for years so everyone could prepare.

You can't fly on a JAA/EASA license in the US either, you can only get a PPL based on. The same applies here, it's easy and straightforward to either validate or get an EASA PPL based on a foreign license.

As for typeratings try to fly/rent a helicopter in the US when you have less than a 100 hours on type. When you have more than a 100 hours on type in the EASA system you get a typerating pretty easy (only a typerating practial exam)

Why should someone who got a FAA CPL, get the EASA equivalent where the theoretical part is far more extensive. In other words people who have studied their arses of get laughed at by people who didn't.

BTW I have both FAA and JAA/EASA CPL(H)/CFI(H) FI(H)
HillerBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:19   #17 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 761
Not too long ago in Germany:
A 900 hour robbie pilot did a VFR type rating on a BK117 or B222 and automatically fulfilled the requirements for an ATPL. He was given one.
No IR, no MCC, nothing. Now what is that piece of paper worth?

The rules have changed and now an ATPL calls for an IFR, MCC and 350+ hours on big iron.
It is the highest achievable licence and only the highest qualified pilots should hold it. This is not about good or bad pilots...

Since you (and I) don't hold those quals we are not entitled to that licence.Simple.

ATP or CPL, it doesn't belittle your qualifications, achievements or your 14000+ hours.
GoodGrief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:36   #18 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 194
He can, but only in the state of issuance (and afaik only to the level of PPL), i.e. with a JAR-FCL CPL issued by germany you can fly N-Reg in germany but not across any border. If you want to ferry a N-Reg AS350 from France to Germany you'd either need a FAA license or two pilots, one with a french issued JAR/EASA license and another one with a german JAR/EASA license.

The difference between now and before 08th April 2012 (note: the implementation has been postponed - inofficially, remember this is not law ... still) is: Before you were allowed to fly N-Reg on a FAA CPL across europe acting as PIC in commercial transport even as a non U.S. resident (i.e. living/working in europe). Now you'd require a JAR/EASA CPL.

Similiar to the U.S.? Well, the only difference being 9-14(?) theoretical exams and practical exam incl. typerating (FAA => EASA) vs. reading two books, nailing PPL and CPL theoretical exams, oral (to me this seems the hardest part) and practical exam after 5(?) hours of instruction - imho definately worth the time to spend at a foreign airport if you never flew in the US before (EASA => FAA).

Please bear with me if i mixed up important details but i think you get the idea.

To me it is terrible to see what EASA-FCL has grown into and the 'implementation' is even more embarassing.
Ready2Fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:48   #19 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Escrick York england
Posts: 1,467
Ready to fly

Surely That must be against eu law then, for flying ppl privildges not cpl you can only have your licence issued by one state in the old days you could have a jar licence issued in france germany holland belgium and fly through all countrys they are discriminating against him /her by not making the easa licence Europe wide
md 600 driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Apr 2012, 23:32   #20 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 194
I was referring to flying N-reg aircraft in europe on a JAR/EASA license. This is only allowed in the state of issuance.

The main controversy is with flying N-Reg aircraft on a FAA license in europe (commercially) which was allowed before EASA-FCL and (as it seems) is going to end (read: it had already come to a stop if EASA-FCL was implemented on 08.04.2012 but the implementation got postponed because the date was a surprise to the legislation of many member states ) and how to get a license (FAA => EASA vs. EASA => FAA) based on your initial license.

I can fly a (D-Reg) helicopter whereever my JAR/EASA license is valid.
Ready2Fly is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:25.

© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1