Bell 47 import to UK
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Bell 47 import to UK
Hi some of you may have followed my exploits in trying to buy a 47 in Venice and getting it back to the UK and also subsequently know that I didn't buy it in the end due to it's condition. I have been looking at some others, Swiss Register and South African Register, here is my problem. Although both have engine hours remaining they are over 10 years old( the engines that is!). Now if these machines were in the UK at the moment that would be fine, even if they had gone over their hours I believe it would also be fine as an extension can be granted. The problem is that I am told the CAA won't allow them to go on the "G" register because of the engines being over 10 years old, even although they may still have 400 hours left on them. Does anyone know a way around this, an alternative register or is it simply not possible.. The one in Switzerland is an ex-British Army one (Westland Bell) so the "N" reg isn't an option but not sure what their ruling would be on the 10 year life anyway. Thanks for any help!
Last edited by bvgs; 3rd Mar 2012 at 13:46.
The N reg is an option but you can only fly it under Experimental category. You could try the Hungarian register although you'll have to get a Hungarian License and find a service centre over there that will take care of it. MD600 - the Swiss wont allow you to fly any aircraft on the HB register abroad so that's a non starter unfortunately..
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If you are prepared to look a bit further abroad talk to Myles Tomkins [email protected] in Australia. Good reputation and knows more about 47s than anyone else downunder. He usually has a few 47s for sale. Air Work » Aircraft and Helicopters for Sale
Seems a shame having been built in Britain that she can't go onto the UK register - would someone with a spare minute mind explaining about this 10 year engine rule?
Is there no way to get her onto the 'G' reg?
Is there no way to get her onto the 'G' reg?
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Would suggest that the 10 years is since last overhaul,not total age of engine,in which case an overhaul should see you right.
I regularly deal with engines built in the 70s and have never heard of any age restriction.
I regularly deal with engines built in the 70s and have never heard of any age restriction.
bvgs,
I do not know what motivates you to try and operate a 47 these days but here we go-
With the adoption of EASA and the changes that became apparent from that, CAP 747 has all the details. The overhaul calendar life has always been a Lycoming "recommendation" and the issue is how the NAA's adopt and enforce the recommendations. As the UK CAA now has to eat "EASA speak" it has adopted the EASA way things are done - hence the adoption of the calendar overhaul life.
Worms - CHECK!
Can - CHECK!
If you are still persistent and look at the Australian option as suggested be very very careful with Aussie modifications and adaptations. EASA compliance again. Anything incorporated and not EASA compliant will be extremely difficult.
Well maybe ASSEMBLED in Britain. The UK register is no longer as unique as it was. Read EASA.
Even operators I have known in the past who have had huge internal support are struggling to keep these aircraft flying.
I have to admire your enthusiasm but...............................................
Scott's-Bell 47 now holds the Type Certificate for the aircraft.
I do not know what motivates you to try and operate a 47 these days but here we go-
With the adoption of EASA and the changes that became apparent from that, CAP 747 has all the details. The overhaul calendar life has always been a Lycoming "recommendation" and the issue is how the NAA's adopt and enforce the recommendations. As the UK CAA now has to eat "EASA speak" it has adopted the EASA way things are done - hence the adoption of the calendar overhaul life.
Worms - CHECK!
Can - CHECK!
If you are still persistent and look at the Australian option as suggested be very very careful with Aussie modifications and adaptations. EASA compliance again. Anything incorporated and not EASA compliant will be extremely difficult.
built in Britain that she can't go onto the UK register
Even operators I have known in the past who have had huge internal support are struggling to keep these aircraft flying.
I have to admire your enthusiasm but...............................................
Scott's-Bell 47 now holds the Type Certificate for the aircraft.
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Bell 47
This will help if you are desperate for a Bell 47
Scott’s Mulls New Production of former Bell 47
Aviation International News » September 2011
by Mark Huber
August 30, 2011, 9:25 AM
The current type certificate holder of the venerable Bell 47 might be interested in putting the iconic piston helicopter back into new production.
Scott’s Helicopter Services of Le Sueur, Minn., acquired the type certificate and assumed all aspects of commercial spares support, technical support and continued airworthiness for the Bell 47 last year. The aircraft is now known as “Scott’s-Bell 47” (SB47) and Scott’s is a Bell-approved customer service facility.
Any decision on putting the 47 back into production is likely at least a year away as Scott’s continues to ramp up its product support and parts inventory for the more than 1,000 helicopters still flying worldwide. In April, Scott’s moved into a new 8,000-sq-ft facility and began adding employees to support the SB47. Since acquiring the TC, Scott’s has hired 10 new personnel. The new facility will house the product support and design team, and Scott’s recently invested in 3-D design software to speed the PMA process and possibly retooling and redesign under a production certificate. Scott’s currently stocks nearly 1,000 unique Bell parts for the 47.
The company’s immediate goal is to “gain the confidence of the supply base that there really is a market [for the helicopter],” said Neil Marshall, SB47 program manager. As a first step in this direction, Scott’s administered a marketing survey to current 47 operators. Of those who replied–representing roughly 15 percent of the fleet–two-thirds or more said they would be interested in new-production 47s or substantial refurbishment of existing helicopters. Convincing suppliers that this sentiment can be translated into actual orders is Scott’s biggest new production challenge. “The issue is not with small purchase order suppliers; that is a risk we are willing to take on,” said Marshall. With larger suppliers, “we need to shake off the perception that the 47 is old and do the right things in terms of operating costs.”
Marshall said the key to rejuvenating demand for the 47 is getting its operating costs below those of a Robinson R44.
Engine Supplier Cooperation
At the head of the big-supplier list is engine maker Lycoming. Right now the company supplies its horizontally mounted 360 four-cylinder and 540 six-cylinder engine to helicopter manufacturers, including Robinson for the R22 and R44, respectively. Both Marshall and Scott’s CEO, Scott Churchill, would like to see the old Lycoming VO-435 vertically mounted engine, now out of production for the better part of three decades, reworked in any new-production helicopter.
“The 435 was such a bulletproof motor,” said Churchill. “It would take any abuse that was given to it.”
Marshall concedes that Lycoming is unlikely to re-introduce the 435 unless it has demand from more than one OEM, and maybe not even then. “[It has its] inclinations and we have our preferences,” Marshall noted, conceding that the 540 has been greatly refined over the years and could give the 47 increased performance.
At this year’s EAA AirVenture, a spokesman for Lycoming declined to comment on speculation that the company could be developing a new piston engine directed at the helicopter market.
Marshall called getting a steady supply of new engines critical to any new production decision on the helicopter. “That is really the heart of it. We really can’t entertain getting this aircraft back into production unless we can get a production line of engines,” he said.
Meanwhile Scott’s will continue to offer overhaul services on the 1,200-hour TBO VO-435 engine for an average cost of $29,000.
The company is also looking at extending life limits on other critical components, such as the main rotor blades, as another way of taking operating costs out of the aircraft.
Aviation International News » September 2011
by Mark Huber
August 30, 2011, 9:25 AM
The current type certificate holder of the venerable Bell 47 might be interested in putting the iconic piston helicopter back into new production.
Scott’s Helicopter Services of Le Sueur, Minn., acquired the type certificate and assumed all aspects of commercial spares support, technical support and continued airworthiness for the Bell 47 last year. The aircraft is now known as “Scott’s-Bell 47” (SB47) and Scott’s is a Bell-approved customer service facility.
Any decision on putting the 47 back into production is likely at least a year away as Scott’s continues to ramp up its product support and parts inventory for the more than 1,000 helicopters still flying worldwide. In April, Scott’s moved into a new 8,000-sq-ft facility and began adding employees to support the SB47. Since acquiring the TC, Scott’s has hired 10 new personnel. The new facility will house the product support and design team, and Scott’s recently invested in 3-D design software to speed the PMA process and possibly retooling and redesign under a production certificate. Scott’s currently stocks nearly 1,000 unique Bell parts for the 47.
The company’s immediate goal is to “gain the confidence of the supply base that there really is a market [for the helicopter],” said Neil Marshall, SB47 program manager. As a first step in this direction, Scott’s administered a marketing survey to current 47 operators. Of those who replied–representing roughly 15 percent of the fleet–two-thirds or more said they would be interested in new-production 47s or substantial refurbishment of existing helicopters. Convincing suppliers that this sentiment can be translated into actual orders is Scott’s biggest new production challenge. “The issue is not with small purchase order suppliers; that is a risk we are willing to take on,” said Marshall. With larger suppliers, “we need to shake off the perception that the 47 is old and do the right things in terms of operating costs.”
Marshall said the key to rejuvenating demand for the 47 is getting its operating costs below those of a Robinson R44.
Engine Supplier Cooperation
At the head of the big-supplier list is engine maker Lycoming. Right now the company supplies its horizontally mounted 360 four-cylinder and 540 six-cylinder engine to helicopter manufacturers, including Robinson for the R22 and R44, respectively. Both Marshall and Scott’s CEO, Scott Churchill, would like to see the old Lycoming VO-435 vertically mounted engine, now out of production for the better part of three decades, reworked in any new-production helicopter.
“The 435 was such a bulletproof motor,” said Churchill. “It would take any abuse that was given to it.”
Marshall concedes that Lycoming is unlikely to re-introduce the 435 unless it has demand from more than one OEM, and maybe not even then. “[It has its] inclinations and we have our preferences,” Marshall noted, conceding that the 540 has been greatly refined over the years and could give the 47 increased performance.
At this year’s EAA AirVenture, a spokesman for Lycoming declined to comment on speculation that the company could be developing a new piston engine directed at the helicopter market.
Marshall called getting a steady supply of new engines critical to any new production decision on the helicopter. “That is really the heart of it. We really can’t entertain getting this aircraft back into production unless we can get a production line of engines,” he said.
Meanwhile Scott’s will continue to offer overhaul services on the 1,200-hour TBO VO-435 engine for an average cost of $29,000.
The company is also looking at extending life limits on other critical components, such as the main rotor blades, as another way of taking operating costs out of the aircraft.
Bell Helicopter Announces Support Change for the Model 47 visit Welcome to Scott's-Bell 47 to find out more!
FORT WORTH, Texas (December 7, 2009) – Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) company, today announced that Scott’s Helicopter has assumed ownership of the Model 47 type certificate.
Beginning in the first quarter of 2010 all aspects of commercial spares support, technical support and continued airworthiness for the FAA type certificated Bell 47 helicopter (H-1, 2H1 and 2H3) will become the responsibility of Scott’s Helicopters, a Bell-approved Customer Service Facility (CSF) located in Le Sueur, Minn.
Danny Maldonado, senior vice president and chief services officer at Bell, said, “This model really started the commercial helicopter business and Bell has a lot of heritage in the 47. However, we felt it was the best thing for our customers, and the 47, to transition ongoing support to Scott’s Helicopter and we have every confidence that Scott’s will continue to provide outstanding service and support.”
Since its inception in 1946, the Bell 47 has transformed aviation and today remains an extremely viable aircraft with unparalleled capabilities, especially in pilot training and agricultural spraying operations. Most importantly, the Bell 47 has a dedicated and loyal customer following. Scott’s brings a wealth of knowledge, experience and passion to this market. Bell acknowledges this expectation by leaving its name attached to the product; the model will be re-titled as “Scott’s-Bell 47.”
Bell continues to explore industry alliances with its worldwide network of approved Customer Service Facilities (CSFs) to improve the overall support and mission capabilities for its legacy products. The sale of the Model 47 type certificate is the first step in developing these alliances.
About Bell Helicopter
Bell Helicopter, a wholly owned subsidiary of Textron Inc., is an industry-leading producer of commercial and military, manned and unmanned vertical lift aircraft and the pioneer of the revolutionary tilt rotor aircraft. Globally recognized for world-class customer service, innovation and superior quality, Bell's global workforce serves customers flying Bell aircraft in more than 120 countries.
About Textron
Textron Inc. is a multi-industry company that leverages its global network of aircraft, defense, industrial and finance businesses to provide customers with innovative solutions and services. Textron is known around the world for its powerful brands such as Bell Helicopter, Cessna Aircraft Company, Jacobsen, Kautex, Lycoming, E-Z-GO, Greenlee, and Textron Systems. More information is available at HYPERLINK "http://www.textron.com/" \o "http://www.textron.com/" Textron Home.
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Bell Helicopter, Post Office Box 482, Fort Worth, Texas 76101
FORT WORTH, Texas (December 7, 2009) – Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) company, today announced that Scott’s Helicopter has assumed ownership of the Model 47 type certificate.
Beginning in the first quarter of 2010 all aspects of commercial spares support, technical support and continued airworthiness for the FAA type certificated Bell 47 helicopter (H-1, 2H1 and 2H3) will become the responsibility of Scott’s Helicopters, a Bell-approved Customer Service Facility (CSF) located in Le Sueur, Minn.
Danny Maldonado, senior vice president and chief services officer at Bell, said, “This model really started the commercial helicopter business and Bell has a lot of heritage in the 47. However, we felt it was the best thing for our customers, and the 47, to transition ongoing support to Scott’s Helicopter and we have every confidence that Scott’s will continue to provide outstanding service and support.”
Since its inception in 1946, the Bell 47 has transformed aviation and today remains an extremely viable aircraft with unparalleled capabilities, especially in pilot training and agricultural spraying operations. Most importantly, the Bell 47 has a dedicated and loyal customer following. Scott’s brings a wealth of knowledge, experience and passion to this market. Bell acknowledges this expectation by leaving its name attached to the product; the model will be re-titled as “Scott’s-Bell 47.”
Bell continues to explore industry alliances with its worldwide network of approved Customer Service Facilities (CSFs) to improve the overall support and mission capabilities for its legacy products. The sale of the Model 47 type certificate is the first step in developing these alliances.
About Bell Helicopter
Bell Helicopter, a wholly owned subsidiary of Textron Inc., is an industry-leading producer of commercial and military, manned and unmanned vertical lift aircraft and the pioneer of the revolutionary tilt rotor aircraft. Globally recognized for world-class customer service, innovation and superior quality, Bell's global workforce serves customers flying Bell aircraft in more than 120 countries.
About Textron
Textron Inc. is a multi-industry company that leverages its global network of aircraft, defense, industrial and finance businesses to provide customers with innovative solutions and services. Textron is known around the world for its powerful brands such as Bell Helicopter, Cessna Aircraft Company, Jacobsen, Kautex, Lycoming, E-Z-GO, Greenlee, and Textron Systems. More information is available at HYPERLINK "http://www.textron.com/" \o "http://www.textron.com/" Textron Home.
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Bell Helicopter, Post Office Box 482, Fort Worth, Texas 76101
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M47 registration in UK
Guys
Respect your advice and knowledge, HOWEVER........ the Bell 47 is not an EASA TC recognised aircraft. It is an Annexe 2 aircraft and thus down to the NAA (ie CAA in this case) to determine its airworthy compliance. Nothing to do with EASA
Aside from the technicalities and the O/H of the engine (would the CAA accept a top O/H only?) If so talk to Richard Von Eisenberg at Southend for either top or full, he's been doing it for years.
One would normally expect an export C of A to validate issue of a UK National Cof A, Oh and BTW you will need a UK BCAR (Sect L) endorsed licenced engineer to certify the work. Can't do it on a Part 66 licence
On this & related matters I spoke to CAA STN this past week. Some changes being promulgated to BCAR A8, particularly for component repair and O/H in a Part 145 approved shop, Either suffix -23/-24 or -25, all due to be published in April.
I would recommend speaking to A&A at Airfix House, John Nicholas is the man in charge I think. A little 'light on his feet' but he's OK if you tackle him in the right way.
If you need specifics PM me. (I do hold a CAA Sect L licence for the type) - VFR
Respect your advice and knowledge, HOWEVER........ the Bell 47 is not an EASA TC recognised aircraft. It is an Annexe 2 aircraft and thus down to the NAA (ie CAA in this case) to determine its airworthy compliance. Nothing to do with EASA
Aside from the technicalities and the O/H of the engine (would the CAA accept a top O/H only?) If so talk to Richard Von Eisenberg at Southend for either top or full, he's been doing it for years.
One would normally expect an export C of A to validate issue of a UK National Cof A, Oh and BTW you will need a UK BCAR (Sect L) endorsed licenced engineer to certify the work. Can't do it on a Part 66 licence
On this & related matters I spoke to CAA STN this past week. Some changes being promulgated to BCAR A8, particularly for component repair and O/H in a Part 145 approved shop, Either suffix -23/-24 or -25, all due to be published in April.
I would recommend speaking to A&A at Airfix House, John Nicholas is the man in charge I think. A little 'light on his feet' but he's OK if you tackle him in the right way.
If you need specifics PM me. (I do hold a CAA Sect L licence for the type) - VFR
Last edited by vfr440; 4th Mar 2012 at 14:37. Reason: Typos & syntax correction
