UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Uh umm, the Sun doesn't rise, the Earth rotates
BBC - KS3 Bitesize: Maths - Introduction to transformations - Rotation
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This has gone beyond my sphere of knowledge!
I thought we were all riding on the back of a giant cosmic tortoise, next you will be telling me the moon isn't made of cheese.
I thought we were all riding on the back of a giant cosmic tortoise, next you will be telling me the moon isn't made of cheese.
WF, no, I don't think you were.
I know that linking a sunrise to NPAS may be a metaphor but, as you said "like", it was, I believe, a simile. However, actually knowing what a metaphor is still isn't helping me to see what you mean.
I know that linking a sunrise to NPAS may be a metaphor but, as you said "like", it was, I believe, a simile. However, actually knowing what a metaphor is still isn't helping me to see what you mean.
Last edited by J.A.F.O.; 18th Aug 2012 at 12:23.
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Ok, it like debating the sunrise (an almost enivitable event)...........no matter how much the event ( and you can place your own inevitable event, death, taxes etc here) is debated, it will happen. Is that a simple enough explanation?
Honestly, WF, simplification was not what your statements required; quite the reverse.
(And I really do apologise to everyone else that I'm having to go into this)
I understand what a metaphor is, I understand what a simile is and I understand that you were trying to say that NPAS (like a sunrise) would happen regardless of what we said.
There was no need to explain that further, really there wasn't.
I was merely asking who here had indicated that NPAS wouldn't happen?
We are all aware that it is happening, that's what we're debating, how it will affect us and the job that we do. Nobody doubts that the sun will rise on October 1st (see what I did there, that's a metaphor) but we still have a lot to discuss.
Mark Twain once said that you should never argue with an idiot because, from a distance, people won't be able to tell the difference and I really shouldn't have allowed myself to be dragged in but I just had to have one last go at explaining my frighteningly simple question. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, here. (That, in case you're wondering, WF, is a simile).
Who said that it wasn't going to happen and did you think that's what we'd been talking about?
(And I really do apologise to everyone else that I'm having to go into this)
I understand what a metaphor is, I understand what a simile is and I understand that you were trying to say that NPAS (like a sunrise) would happen regardless of what we said.
There was no need to explain that further, really there wasn't.
I was merely asking who here had indicated that NPAS wouldn't happen?
We are all aware that it is happening, that's what we're debating, how it will affect us and the job that we do. Nobody doubts that the sun will rise on October 1st (see what I did there, that's a metaphor) but we still have a lot to discuss.
Mark Twain once said that you should never argue with an idiot because, from a distance, people won't be able to tell the difference and I really shouldn't have allowed myself to be dragged in but I just had to have one last go at explaining my frighteningly simple question. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, here. (That, in case you're wondering, WF, is a simile).
Who said that it wasn't going to happen and did you think that's what we'd been talking about?
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This is starting to get a bit like teaching a pig to dance, it frustrates the pig and ultimately it's a waste of time.
Probably it is time that this thread was closed.
Probably it is time that this thread was closed.
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Perhaps it is merely time that the thread moved on and discussed something worthwhile.
OK : How about shift patterns ?
I understand that some shift patterns have been proposed for the Units about to commence NPAS in October.
I don't think they have actually been agreed or officially sanctioned ( yet ),
so I guess it would be OK to discuss them.
I 'm sure there are lots of thoughts out there to be shared ....
I'll kick off with one to do with shift handovers.
Apparantly it is "essential" to have a proper hand from Pilots and "TFO's" from one shift to the next,
and that allowing an overlap period of 15 minutes at the start and end of each shift would seem like a good idea.
For those Units NOT covering the full 24 hour shift pattern,
where the hours worked can be manipulated to some extent,
this could be achievable, but what about a Unit that operates 24 hours a day ?
I understand that shift paterns for 24 Hr Units are still being developed,
and have not yet been proposed or circulated,
but if those Units are currently working 12 hour shifts, it it feasible / desirable / allowable
to add 15 minues to the start and end- making a 12 and a half hour shift ?
Would they need to go to 3 shifts per day instead of 2,
drastically altering their current working hours, and requiring MORE staff ?
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Handover time is good but I would have thought if you have a thorough written handover sheet that should work well...
The problem I see is that at the end of the shift you are becoming less useful since you can't go very far anymore or else you run out of FDP....
The problem I see is that at the end of the shift you are becoming less useful since you can't go very far anymore or else you run out of FDP....
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the Police Fed in the SE have advised their people not to sign the new contracts with NPAS.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I believe it's something to do with this;
Controversy Erupts Over National Police Air Service | UK Police News - Police Oracle
Controversy Erupts Over National Police Air Service | UK Police News - Police Oracle
Officers had to sign up to the new National Police Air Service (NPAS) before knowing the terms and conditions for their new roles, the Police Federation has said.
Andy Viney, Secretary of the Thames Valley branch of the staff association, said his force’s specialist air support officers did not have the full details of their new secondments in writing before the August 15 deadline to apply to join the NPAS, which launches on October 1 in the south east.
He said eight air helicopter officers in the force took “a leap of faith” in applying for the jobs before information such as a new shift pattern had been laid out in writing.
Mr Viney said questions remained over maternity leave, recuperative and restricted duties policies and whether officers will be eligible for the Winsor Expertise and Professional Accreditation Allowance - which is still being negotiated.
He said: “Would you apply for a job before you knew what the terms and conditions were? The reality is that these specialist officers were corralled into a decision with only half the information available to them.”
Officers who join the NPAS will remain with their home force but will be seconded to West Yorkshire Police, which will be the lead force for the new air service.
Mr Viney added: “When the terms and conditions are clearly set is when officers should have been applying for these roles and not before.”
An ACPO spokeswoman said the tight timescales for the creation of the NPAS meant the recruitment process had been hurried.
She said: “An advert for Tactical Flight Officers was released in July. The advert was accompanied by basic information relating to role profile and draft shift pattern plus other details.
“A secondment agreement, which is currently being considered by the national Police Federation, was not ready for publication at this time and will be made available to officers as soon as it has been approved.
“Part of the agreement, specifically that officers on secondment are subject to Police Regulations and remain officers of their own force, was made available.
“A completed application is not binding and can be withdrawn at any point.”
Andy Viney, Secretary of the Thames Valley branch of the staff association, said his force’s specialist air support officers did not have the full details of their new secondments in writing before the August 15 deadline to apply to join the NPAS, which launches on October 1 in the south east.
He said eight air helicopter officers in the force took “a leap of faith” in applying for the jobs before information such as a new shift pattern had been laid out in writing.
Mr Viney said questions remained over maternity leave, recuperative and restricted duties policies and whether officers will be eligible for the Winsor Expertise and Professional Accreditation Allowance - which is still being negotiated.
He said: “Would you apply for a job before you knew what the terms and conditions were? The reality is that these specialist officers were corralled into a decision with only half the information available to them.”
Officers who join the NPAS will remain with their home force but will be seconded to West Yorkshire Police, which will be the lead force for the new air service.
Mr Viney added: “When the terms and conditions are clearly set is when officers should have been applying for these roles and not before.”
An ACPO spokeswoman said the tight timescales for the creation of the NPAS meant the recruitment process had been hurried.
She said: “An advert for Tactical Flight Officers was released in July. The advert was accompanied by basic information relating to role profile and draft shift pattern plus other details.
“A secondment agreement, which is currently being considered by the national Police Federation, was not ready for publication at this time and will be made available to officers as soon as it has been approved.
“Part of the agreement, specifically that officers on secondment are subject to Police Regulations and remain officers of their own force, was made available.
“A completed application is not binding and can be withdrawn at any point.”
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Blimey! I take it the ac was in the area anyway 
Busy night over Plymouth for police helicopter | This is Plymouth
Then again, a 20 minute transit flight to search for a misper and on top of that a garden search, will become more of the norm
... A busy night !!! 
Busy night over Plymouth for police helicopter | This is Plymouth
Then again, a 20 minute transit flight to search for a misper and on top of that a garden search, will become more of the norm
THE crew of the Devon and Cornwall police helicopter had a busy night over Plymouth on Saturday.
The crew located a woman in the Keyham area of the city. Police had been looking for her during the course of the evening due to what they described as 'considerable concern' for her welfare.
Just afterwards, the crew helped officers on the ground in the Plymstock area who were looking for people wanted for theft.
A force spokesman said: "These were two great results highlighting close work between officers in the helicopter and officers on the ground."
The helicopter's powerful Nightsun searchlight was used during the two operations and the spokesman continued: "On both occasions, the helicopter Nightsun played a vital role in pinpointing specific locations on the ground."
The crew located a woman in the Keyham area of the city. Police had been looking for her during the course of the evening due to what they described as 'considerable concern' for her welfare.
Just afterwards, the crew helped officers on the ground in the Plymstock area who were looking for people wanted for theft.
A force spokesman said: "These were two great results highlighting close work between officers in the helicopter and officers on the ground."
The helicopter's powerful Nightsun searchlight was used during the two operations and the spokesman continued: "On both occasions, the helicopter Nightsun played a vital role in pinpointing specific locations on the ground."
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Cut and pasted from the Bedfordshire Police Facebook Page from an entry made this morning:
Bedfordshire Police
10 hours ago
The force helicopter had a very busy night last night fighting crime and helping vulnerable people. It was out for some time at Dunstable looking for a missing woman with Alzheimers, then went to Kempston to help catch two people for stealing a motorbike from man's garden; then went straight to Arlesey to locate a distressed woman who was on the train track. She was talking to the emergency services by phone but officers on foot could not see her in the dark. Trains were stopped while XA99 used thermal imaging cameras to locate her. She was brought into custody by police and taken to hospital to receive treatment. Finally the team went to Clapham to a report of a burglary and helped ground-based officers locate some stolen property. The offenders haven't yet been caught but enquiries are on-going. Thanks XA99!
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Anita Patel Cobbina, Barbara Machacek and 215 others like this.
One of the two aircraft from Chilterns working in one of the three Forces. The subsequent thread makes for interesting reading.
Bedfordshire Police
10 hours ago
The force helicopter had a very busy night last night fighting crime and helping vulnerable people. It was out for some time at Dunstable looking for a missing woman with Alzheimers, then went to Kempston to help catch two people for stealing a motorbike from man's garden; then went straight to Arlesey to locate a distressed woman who was on the train track. She was talking to the emergency services by phone but officers on foot could not see her in the dark. Trains were stopped while XA99 used thermal imaging cameras to locate her. She was brought into custody by police and taken to hospital to receive treatment. Finally the team went to Clapham to a report of a burglary and helped ground-based officers locate some stolen property. The offenders haven't yet been caught but enquiries are on-going. Thanks XA99!
1Like · Comment · Share
Anita Patel Cobbina, Barbara Machacek and 215 others like this.
One of the two aircraft from Chilterns working in one of the three Forces. The subsequent thread makes for interesting reading.