AS350 Crash caught live on TV, Auckland, NZ
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I have no training in sling-loading, but isn’t a 30m line too short for lifting/landing something 25m high?
I’m a PPL and have never even read an article on how to sling load, but the diagram would tell me to use at least 50-60m of line. Is there a procedure or rule of thumb for line length (metal cable or synthetic line)?
I’m a PPL and have never even read an article on how to sling load, but the diagram would tell me to use at least 50-60m of line. Is there a procedure or rule of thumb for line length (metal cable or synthetic line)?
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Rigger experience approx 1500 sling loads various machines. approx 2000hrs working with helicopters as loader driver and rigging installations.
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If both the load and the strop were made of metal, an earthing strop might have been unnecessary once the load touched the ground.
Riggers make wonderful grounding straps....might make their hair stand up sometimes...but it is an electrifying experience!
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If both the load and the strop were made of metal, an earthing strop might have been unnecessary once the load touched the ground.
1. Were you on the same course or his instructor?
2. Have you seen the video? (see post 70)
See the rigger jump up grabbing the wire at 3:36.
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Of course I've seen the video, a number of them from different angles. The pilot was extremely lucky to escape. Seems to me that the main strop ended up in the main rotor after the load was probably already earthed by ground contact. It also appears that a longer strop might have prevented the problem.
I don't actually understand your point about the earthing strop or why you're asking about my personal USL experience.
No I wasn't on the same USL course as this pilot. My instruction predates the pilot's experience by about fifteen years and was given by the RAF. We flew quite a lot of varied USLs on the squadrons in days gone by. I latterly also used to instruct USLs on an RAF SH OCU and flew JATE USL trials on a number of occasions.
And you?
I don't actually understand your point about the earthing strop or why you're asking about my personal USL experience.
No I wasn't on the same USL course as this pilot. My instruction predates the pilot's experience by about fifteen years and was given by the RAF. We flew quite a lot of varied USLs on the squadrons in days gone by. I latterly also used to instruct USLs on an RAF SH OCU and flew JATE USL trials on a number of occasions.
And you?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Mmmm, I think you missed the point of this one ShyT.
I am referring to the visual evidence on the video that shows the experienced rigger jumping up to grab hold of the wire, just before he yanks it into the blades. Now then, by virtue of the fact that he has to jump up to catch the wire and then gravity taking over returning him to Earth, his body is the 'earthing' which the aircraft/load would need.
I can see what you mean if you are saying that there would be no earthing problem as the ac is attached to the line which is attached to the mast, which is bolted to the ground. However I would ask, how electrically earthed are all those 'joints'. I would say that even with modern ac static dischargers, the potential for a substantial static build up in all those elements of the job is fairly large.
All I am saying is that for a very experienced rigger in this field not to be using an earthing strop/lead/hook may not have been 'best practise'.
As for experience, there was no personal element to my post, but if you're going that way, and as you ask, my experience with USLs began in 1981 and varies from ground handling to piloting experiences with a variety of aircraft such Scout/Gazelle/Lynx/Wessex/Puma/Sea King and Chinook, in a variety of theatres including Germany to the Falklands and NI to Hong Kong/Brunei.
Oh, and then there was the time not too long ago when the downlink aerial wouldn't raise on our return to base one day...that could have been funny if we kept quiet
I am referring to the visual evidence on the video that shows the experienced rigger jumping up to grab hold of the wire, just before he yanks it into the blades. Now then, by virtue of the fact that he has to jump up to catch the wire and then gravity taking over returning him to Earth, his body is the 'earthing' which the aircraft/load would need.
I can see what you mean if you are saying that there would be no earthing problem as the ac is attached to the line which is attached to the mast, which is bolted to the ground. However I would ask, how electrically earthed are all those 'joints'. I would say that even with modern ac static dischargers, the potential for a substantial static build up in all those elements of the job is fairly large.
All I am saying is that for a very experienced rigger in this field not to be using an earthing strop/lead/hook may not have been 'best practise'.
And you?
Oh, and then there was the time not too long ago when the downlink aerial wouldn't raise on our return to base one day...that could have been funny if we kept quiet
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As for experience, there was no personal element to my post
Obviously crossed purposes here, Sid? I dunno.
USLs in my experience were earthed by an earthing "crook" kept by the ground handler himself, for use as he saw fit. All metal loads on steel strops generally earth themselves as they touch the ground, which was the point of my initial response. I can't, for the life of me, understand why the ground handler in this incident did what he did there, though!
Dollar to a Dog Dropping...and you can hold the stakes in your mouth.....the Rigger thought the cable had hung up after being released and he was just going to pull the thing off the hook. 
He probably never tweaked to the ramifications of his actions....that being the pulling the once slack line taut (and still hooked firmly to the cargo hook) and into the rotor blades.
The rest as they say....is history!
No one got hurt....some great video was had....and PPrune got a great thread for our enjoyment....tis an ill wind that blows no good!
He probably never tweaked to the ramifications of his actions....that being the pulling the once slack line taut (and still hooked firmly to the cargo hook) and into the rotor blades.
The rest as they say....is history!
No one got hurt....some great video was had....and PPrune got a great thread for our enjoyment....tis an ill wind that blows no good!
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No point squabbling about earth straps really. As previously posted, it was a Spectra line so no conducting capability that I am aware of.
However, risk of thread creep aside, I started my career under helicopters attaching loads. Static electricity was just something that you took as part of the job, and the same for the countless loadies that have worked under me since. Never have I used, or seen any other pilot use, an earthing strap.
Does that make me some sort of dangerous operator? Is the static electricity so great under some machines, large ones I'm guessing, as to be a hazard rather than just a discomfort? My personal experience only goes up as far as 3500kg AUW.
However, risk of thread creep aside, I started my career under helicopters attaching loads. Static electricity was just something that you took as part of the job, and the same for the countless loadies that have worked under me since. Never have I used, or seen any other pilot use, an earthing strap.
Does that make me some sort of dangerous operator? Is the static electricity so great under some machines, large ones I'm guessing, as to be a hazard rather than just a discomfort? My personal experience only goes up as far as 3500kg AUW.
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Seems crossed purposes ShyTq 
Anyway, each to their own practises, cue the Benny Hill music
Anyway, each to their own practises, cue the Benny Hill music
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No grounding wond required with this accident the load was on the ground (tower frame), If wire rope is used and a path for static electricty is the rigger let the new guy go first.
If the line is spectra or kevlar no shock.
belly hook ,longline to a strop, or a sling with a load.
A grounding wond for static control.
Spent a few years at it. lots of fun
, If wire rope is used and a path for static electricty is the rigger let the new guy go first.If the line is spectra or kevlar no shock.
belly hook ,longline to a strop, or a sling with a load.
A grounding wond for static control.
Spent a few years at it. lots of fun
Front Seats
Anyone have a bright idea to improve the crashworthiness of the front seats?
Im told strengthening floor is required to replace the fiberglass tubs with the new design. Combined cost of strengthening and the new seat is prohibitive for most operators. US$30k?
So, is there an intermediate measure where the existing seat can be more securely fixed to the airframe?
I've heard reports that either the seat itself snaps or that the fixings can fail.
Perhaps both can be strengthened as lower cost minor mods without the need for reinforcing the floor?
Mickjoebill
Im told strengthening floor is required to replace the fiberglass tubs with the new design. Combined cost of strengthening and the new seat is prohibitive for most operators. US$30k?
So, is there an intermediate measure where the existing seat can be more securely fixed to the airframe?
I've heard reports that either the seat itself snaps or that the fixings can fail.
Perhaps both can be strengthened as lower cost minor mods without the need for reinforcing the floor?
Mickjoebill
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How about;
Guy jumps up to guide wire, Earths himself when he lands, arm goes into spasm due to static shock, flicking cable into blades.
Guy jumps up to guide wire, Earths himself when he lands, arm goes into spasm due to static shock, flicking cable into blades.
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The rigger suffered no shock
,The Tower was on the ground, The cable was attached to the tower,The helicopter was attached to the cable:ie Grounded-The rigger suffered from a brain fert-not an electrical static shock.
,The Tower was on the ground, The cable was attached to the tower,The helicopter was attached to the cable:ie Grounded-The rigger suffered from a brain fert-not an electrical static shock.
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I would think he suffered slightly delayed shock, and not of the static electric type.
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How about;
Guy jumps up to guide wire, Earths himself when he lands, arm goes into spasm due to static shock, flicking cable into blades.
Guy jumps up to guide wire, Earths himself when he lands, arm goes into spasm due to static shock, flicking cable into blades.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The rigger suffered no shock,The Tower was on the ground, The cable was attached to the tower,The helicopter was attached to the cable:ie Grounded-The rigger suffered from a brain fert-not an electrical static shock.
The Tower was on the ground, The cable was attached to the tower,The helicopter was attached to the cable:ie Grounded-The rigger suffered from a brain fert-not an electrical static shock.
The rigger suffered no shock
Have a good New Year folks, and for those of us on duty tomorrow night, sodas all round
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Broken seat...
... an ironic aspect of the (inadequate) seat structure failing is that the latteral accelerations were not transmitted to the pilot - which might have broken his neck. (Although the gearbox mounts breaking might also have achieved the same)