Emergency landing on rooftop

[Madbob]

I hope that someone is able to post a photo of the recovery effort. That will take some careful planning with something like a K-Max or Super Puma needed.

MB

[OvertHawk]

I'm pretty sure that if you take the blades off (which they pretty much already have ) and strip out everything then a 350 can just about be lifted by a 350 B1 or B2.

They may have to take the tail boom off in case it snaps off in-flight due to the damage, in which case it would be easily within the capability of another 350 - especially for a very short lift.

Whatever lifts it, it will be an interesting sight.

OH

[GoodGrief]

My SWAG: It will be lifted by one of Agrarflug's B205.

[Spunk]

I don't want to turn this into a single vs twin engine issue but I prefer being in a a single engined helicopter equipped with a C47B operating at 90% of torque rather than operating in a light twin with two C20 engines operating at 110% when slinging.

[Spunk]

My SWAG: It will be lifted by one of Agrarflug's B205

It has already been lifted by another AS350 B3 (?) operated by KMN.

[Ready2Fly]

@Spunk
Exactly. Furthermore, in case the engine quit due to low/no fuel then a second engine is not worth anything.

[Spunk]

Pic of recovery

[skadi]

A nice pic from above with the whole scene, helicopter and attached EL.

Hannover: Hubschrauber vom Dach geborgen Hannover / NP - Neue Presse



skadi

[Roofus]

Roofus - I'm afraid you have competition



Although the roof barely qualifies as 'u/s'

Glad all were ok though! Cracking landing!

[oleary]

Concur with John E - whilst there might be twice the chance of engine failure, there's a significantly higher chance of flyaway following a SINGLE engine failure, which is what we're really talking about. I can't remember ever reading or hearing about a double concurrent turbine engine failure - & before someone finds one, I mean not caused by severe icing or fuel starvation, neither of which would likely happen with this sort of operation, I'd suggest.

****************
Actually, in the early days of the 76 we had numerous uncontained third stage bursts that took out the second engine, ...

... and the t/r driveshaft, ...

... and all the a/ & d/c electrics, ...

... and then caught fire.

But you didn't need to worry about the fire, because you couldn't fight it even if you knew about it, which you didn't.

Hence that goofy 180 lb "containment kit" in about 1983 or so.

[311kph]

Can someone tell me what actual type is the one that crashed, and what's the one that's carrying it. AS350 - D?, B?, BA?, B1?, B2?, B3?

I'm looking this pic of recovery... Amazing!
Besides MR blades, probably fuel, ... it's all there.

How many machines are there that can lift same weight as themselves?

PS. I don't see it in the recovery pic, but maybe there is cargo still hanging down below too

[skadi]

The crashed one was a B2 and it was lifted by a B3

skadi

[zorab64]

oleary - someone was of course going to point out occasion(s) where both engines had failed but, as a pilot who operates in the real world in 2011, I trust that early '80s problems have been learnt by all manufacturers such that, 30 years later, a similar incidence is extreemly unlikely!

[rotorspeed]

Pretty impressive to see a helo being able to lift it's own weight - and in practice with pilot and some fuel! Seems the B206L, 407 and Koala can't, so apart from dedicated lifters like the K-Max, is the B3 unique?

[Vertical Freedom]

yep they sure are 1,400 on the hook & 1,215 empty awesome machine in the hills plus 20,000'

[oleary]

double engine failiure

zorab64,

I was simply responding to your comment,

... "I can't remember ever reading or hearing about a double concurrent turbine engine failure - & before someone finds one, I mean not caused by severe icing or fuel starvation, neither of which would likely happen with this sort of operation, I'd suggest.", ...

... by pointing out that it has happened in the past (numerous times) and it will again - or Murphy's not me uncle!

[FH1100 Pilot]

oleary:

I can't remember ever reading or hearing about a double concurrent turbine engine failure - & before someone finds one, I mean not caused by severe icing or fuel starvation, neither of which would likely happen with this sort of operation, I'd suggest.

Uhh, isn't fuel starvation being bandied about as a possible cause of this event? With no fuel it doesn't matter how many engines you have.

[Hughes500]

Rotorspeed

i have lifted 500 with no blades on it with another 500, I weigh 210lbs and had about 45 mins of fuel on board

[zorab64]

oleary - yes, I accept your point !

FH1100 - ditto. Re-reading my original post:

. . . not caused by severe icing or fuel starvation, neither of which would likely happen with this sort of operation, I'd suggest.",

I should possibly have added that, whilst icing would obviously not have been a cause, lack of fuel "should" not have been a cause either. If it does turn out to be the reason, what on earth will be the excuse for operating so close to fuel limits, especially if this were being run professionally, which was also an assumption, I'm afraid!

Your other point, however,

With no fuel it doesn't matter how many engines you have

is not quite true - the EC135, for instance, has different sized fuel supply tanks for just this purpose, i.e. if you are that inattentive/desparate/foolish to ever get that fuel critical, No 2 engine will always flame out first, rapidly focussing your attention on the dwindling fuel reserve in No 1 supply tank, but at least allowing you to get down (quickly) on the remaining engine! Clever design, but ECD have regularly shown that they try to account for all eventualities, including those less professional than they might wish to be/think they are (for instance the ones who try to get airborne with the cyclic lock attached - personally, I don't know how you even get into the seat without noticing that)!

[kmax]

Lama can lift a Lama ( for eurocopter)