Private chopper coppers

[Senior Pilot]

Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav

Whatever happened to that Optica thingy? Saw one in the air once near Brum, think the local plod were trialling it at the time. Cheaper to operate than your average chopper I'd have thought?

A quick search (yes, it still works ) gives this post on the 16th August, explaining the demise of the Optica:

Mimma, Actually it was the "Edgely Optica", the reverse of what you called it. I flew in it several times when we were trialing it and the only good thing I can say about it was that it gave a superb view.

But it was single engined, so could not be used for Police work in the UK. It wasn't very fast, we lost several speeding cars that got away from us when we were struggling with a head wind. It couldnt fly very slow either.I recall that it was fairly critical on C of G. The Pilot would adjust the amount of metal weights that he carried in the tail according to the weight of the single observer.

It could never carry all the Police Role equipement that Police a/c are expected to carry today.

In other words no use at all as a Police Aircraft but probably OK for Pipeline and powerline inspections.

I recall one very strange aspect of flying in the optica. The cabin was very low slung at the front of the machine. As a result the seats themselves were only about .7 of a metre above the runway so at take off, and even more at landing, you were almost expecting a burning sensation in your rear end as it scraped along the ground! The view forward was outstanding, the prop of course was behind you in its strange cowl. The engine noise was odd too, more of a loud buzz than anything else.

Altogether a weird machine but one with a very limited aplication. And because of those many restricting limitations, one that was never really going to succeed.

whitehead06

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks for all who posted in reply to my query on the Optica. Only saw one once, in 1989 I think, and certainly shan't be seeing another, by all accounts!

[Coconutty]

Helihub,

IMHO you're missing the point

Aren't I stupid interpreting the thread title "Private Chopper Coppers"
and thinking that it wouldn't be operated by proper Police Officers ? Sorry

How about changing the title ( for dummies like me ) to :
"Private / Charitable funding for Police Air Units"

[ShyTorque]

How about changing the title ( for dummies like me ) to :
"Private / Charitable funding for Police Air Units"

Yes, we could send them our old clothes or something....like they do locally for the Air Ambo.

Trouble is, the scamming bar stewards who arrange the so-called charity collections round here are after stuff for the wrong county despite the "Support YOUR local air Ambulance" logo on the bags.

[helihub]

Coconutty - I agree the thread title is misleading

[eltonioni]

Coconutty, whatever you might think of the title the police radio system wouldn't be an obstacle just like it isn't now. Plenty of civilians use police comms and anyone that's got a CAP413 paperweight is perfectly able to use anything that's required of a 19 yo constable.

In any case, I can't see any difference to current operations with its mix of civilian and plod resources. It's the private funding model that the AA's / RNLI use that's interesting to me.

Just look at all them logos.



A combined service certainly has attractions. Might it attract the wrong sort of attention (especially when on the ground) if the same machine is used for both life saving and scrote nabbing?

[J.A.F.O.]

Tankertrashnav

Don't be so sure, I saw BOPO and John Edgley last summer and both seemed in fine form.

Optica designer seeks manufacturing partners to relaunch aircraft

[[email protected]]

I seem to remember that it was Hampshire Police insisting (to save costs) that the Optica could be flown by a police officer trained as a pilot rather than a pilot trained as a police officer and that low (PPL) level of experience was a contributing factor to the crash.

[aeromys]

Strangely the AAIB recorded the Optica accident in the Helicopter category -

Air Accidents Investigation: 1/1986 G-KATY

[Planemike]

A combined service certainly has attractions. Might it attract the wrong sort of attention (especially when on the ground) if the same machine is used for both life saving and scrote nabbing?

If the Police cannot afford to operate a helicopter from their own resources then they have to manage without. Mixing up life saving with Police operations is just not viable.

The majority of the public are happy to support EMS and other life saving operations but just cannot see them putting their hands in their pockets for the local Force helicopter, and why should they?

Planemike

[Geoffersincornwall]

Planemike et al

I think you are coming at the problem from the wrong direction. A 'Public Service' Helicopter is one that is staffed by folk who are not Policemen but provide airborne support for them in certain roles that are not associated (directly) with crime. A valuable role is searching for missing persons and there are other roles that can be added that will assist the Fire Service (those that were associated with the London Fire Service Bk117 trial can attest to its potential), the medical services (taking the local AA out of service for long distance inter-hospital transfers denies that service to the local population).

The crews can have Community Service Officer status or even be Special Constables but the prime purpose is not to fight crime directly by getting involved in feeling collars but indirectly by making resources available on the ground that would otherwise be consumed in ground searches. Just look at the vast numbers of cops that used to be called in for such searches. Photography and some surveillance can also be undertaken along with overhead control and command roles during major incidents such as fires and floods etc.

Having been intimately involved with HEMS, Police Ops and SAR I know a little bit about the subject and having had a number of fruitful discussions with the management of the London Fire Service some years ago I have some understanding of their problems too.

A Public Service (Civil Defence) Helicopter Unit (PSHU) has a lot to offer so please don't discard the idea out of hand. As with the AA and the RNLI service it's not the idea that is the problem, its not the funding concept that is the problem - it's getting started that is the hurdle. Trying to initiate the service with any kind of government funding will not work because those who hold the purse strings (Police Forces, Fire Service, Local Government and Central Government) will not part with monies that are committed elsewhere and because the 'turf-war' element that characterises our public services prevents cross-service co-operation.

We solved the problem in the AA world by direct action. Stephen Bond personally agreed to give me a Bo105, suitably modified for HEMS, free of charge for 3 months and when we went to the local NHS and said you can have it free they were unable to resist and we got the go-ahead. The 3 months became 5, then 9 then 12 and then we were self funding and the knock-on effect around the country has to be seen to be believed. All based on actual performance and local public support.

We just need the opportunity to prove it can work and I am sure the model will catch on.

G.

[eltonioni]

Thanks G, very informative.

Can anyone give a quick % breakdown of utilisation for different police heli tasks - ie crime related tasks, SAR, incident support, etc?

I appreciate that different forces will have different profiles but an indication would be interesting when thinking of the public service aspects.

[J.A.F.O.]

Geoffers, interesting post.

[PANews]

Tip Cap you have the story correctly and it was Bob R in charge.

There were various further attempts to bring the Optica back over the years but they all more-or-less failed on technicalities. It was a great concept but poorly engineered from the start. The main fault with major incident 2 was not engine failure but fan failure.... it had a pusher fan.... the assembly just disintegrated. After sitting at Lee for a couple of years the same airframe went off to a succession new 'manufacturers' [FLS being one] who used it as the prototype for things that simply never happened. It did a couple of Farnborough's but I do not think any more were ever built new, it was just the existing stock repainted.

They did improve it and actually got a FLIR turret fitted but it never got its act together in time for the market. The Uk market is long lost [one engine] and even the US Border Patrol plan [Optica Scout to be built in Texas to patrol the southern borders replacing Piper Cubs etc] foundered shortly after the project was launched at the HAI Heli-Expo over 5 years ago.

That 'great concept' angle will probably mean it will reappear from time to time but I think we need to just see it as a 'haunting'..... it will only be a niche project.

[zorab64]

eltonioni - you're quite correct that different areas will produce different profiles. As a rule of thumb, I think you'd find the closer a unit is situated to a large metropolis, the higher the crime element will be. Generally, I would estimate that you're looking at and on-task figure of around 30:30:20% for Crime; Searching for vulnerable/missing people (we can't do "Rescue") and other/planning/photographic etc. The remaining 20% can be spread around, but would also include maybe 5% training.

Much/most of this is being discussed at some length in the Police Budget Cuts thread, so I'll refrain from repeating stuff from there!