Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Bond vs Bristow IR training Help please

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Bond vs Bristow IR training Help please

Old 18th Jun 2011, 15:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question Bond vs Bristow IR training Help please

Hi all,

I am stuck in a position where I canít make my decision on which IR training company I should go for. Until now I have been focused on the pricing but now would like to look at other aspects. Itís unlikely I found people who has done both of them but if I could get your experience it might help me to choose between Bond and Bristow.

ē For those who went to one of them can I have your feedback on the school? Why did you chose to go for it?
ē One of the school gave me a fair enough picture of the market, I felt like I was in front of a salesman because I know that when 1 person find a job there are 20 others left without. What is the trend of the market now (UK and worldwide(in country where you can fly JAA))?
ē Does it make a difference to the hiring companies if you come from Bond or Bristow? Most importantly I have heard that Bond having no problem to hire people who had their training with Bristow but the opposite is not necessary true, can someone confirm?

Just for info I have done my training with Bristow in Florida and I have less than 150 hours flying. Any help would be really appreciated, for the moment it looks to me that Bond training scheme is more structured than Bristow on the other hand Bristow is more flexible regarding start date. Another info is that I would have to choose between getting EC135 or AS355 rating but thatís will be another post.

Regards,

HeliboyDreamer
HeliboyDreamer is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 16:53
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,924
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
You will receive a very high quality of training from either establishment.

But, in essence (and especially if the price was equal), your choice comes down to this option:

Originally Posted by HeliboyDreamer
Another info is that I would have to choose between getting EC135 or AS355 rating but thatís will be another post.
Do you want to do your training in an AS355 or an EC135? If it helps your decision making, it is generally easier to transition from a 'steam driven' aircraft to a 'glass cockpit' rather than the other way. The flip side of that is that an EC135 is a very useful rating to have in the 'parapublic' world (ie Police and Air Ambulance). Especially if your IR and type training has been done by the UK's largest operator of EC135s.
Bravo73 is online now  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 17:19
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Either rating is not much use with <150 hours total time

I would question the sense of even getting an IR given the climate at the moment

My advice: get an instructor rating, get a mon-fri 9-5 job, and instruct at weekends to build hours.

But if you insist on dropping £50,000... I would go for Bond as Bristow ain't hiring at the moment, and are not going to be for a while.

Just don't get yourself in too much debt as I know LOADS of people with IRs either still instructing, or working in an office, paying massive debts off wondering what went wrong.
hands_on123 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 18:01
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just don't get yourself in too much debt as I know LOADS of people with IRs either still instructing, or working in an office, paying massive debts off wondering what went wrong.
I agree completely, in fact I don't know why people are surprised, when it doesn't work to buy the IR, it has always been a high risk strategy for a low timer, as there were always only 2/3 potential employers.

Wasting your time with CHC/Bristow right now I believe no hiring as far as I know. It has always been cyclical, I remember a hiring booms around, 1998, 2001, 2005, 2008 by that rational another one should be along soon (but I wouldn't count on it)

Last edited by Camp Freddie; 18th Jun 2011 at 20:12.
Camp Freddie is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 18:16
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Problem is HD needs to build up a 150 hours more in order to reach the 300 required prior to start an FI course, right?

Sounds like you went on a M-1 visa and did the Integrated course right? If you have money for either an IR or for 150 hours hour-building scheme why didn't you attended Bristow on a F-1 visa first place and get your FAA Certificates as well? Not too sure about how things are going at the moment for Foreign Students in the States but I believe you can still do your CFI and then be hired for every month you have spent on instruction (If I am wrong on this one I would love to hear about the proper scheme)

My two cents
Peter PanPan is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 20:19
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PPP,

FI(H) course is 250 hours pre entry as far as I know, also I had 1500 hours when I did my IR and found it f***in hard, I would have hated to try it with a min hours CPL, respect those that do and pass !
Camp Freddie is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 20:48
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unless bristow hire you as a CFI on the 300, you aint getting a CFI job anywhere else. Bugger all CFI jobs in the USA right now, and most are r22, min 500 hours required. Thats the problem with these "get a JAA CPL in 135 hour" courses. All they give you is a CPL, and without an IR, and a healthy job market, you could end up a bit stuffed.
hands_on123 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 22:26
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,924
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
To hands-on123, Camp Freddie & Peter PanPan,

I'm sure that the OP is very appreciative to get all of this career advice but it doesn't seem to be what he is after. He has already made the decision to do his IR and is just looking for some input as to which school to choose.

So then, Bristow/Severn or Bond?
Bravo73 is online now  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 23:13
  #9 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If he has to get another 150 hours before he can do the course is any information today relevant?
parabellum is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 23:18
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,924
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
He doesn't. He can do the IR course now.

The others have muddied the waters by talking about an FI course (which does require a minimum of 250hrs).
Bravo73 is online now  
Old 18th Jun 2011, 23:24
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't know which school he should choose, as that depends on which company is more likely to hire (bond I would have thought), which rating is more useful in longer term (135 I would have thought), so I guess I would go for bond.

Don't know if bristow have a problem with bond IR's but history suggests that that sort of garbage goes out the window as soon as they need someone urgently, I did my IR at cabair which I have to say was rubbish, and I would have walked out on day 1 if it were my money but luckily it wasn't, but the point is wherever you do it it's still an IR.

But also I think it is reasonable to point out that if he chooses an IR and doesn't get an instructor rating that he may find himself not flying at all, which would not be likely to happen the other way round, not muddying any waters just pointing stuff out.

Last edited by Camp Freddie; 18th Jun 2011 at 23:44.
Camp Freddie is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 07:22
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HLS map - http://goo.gl/maps/3ymt
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Anyone have info on the price difference between 135/Squirrel?
Aucky is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 07:47
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Flexible
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you want personal experience you might be better requesting Private Messages. Most people who have done it the way you're planning are too paranoid to post on PPRuNe in case they are identified and it affects their job prospects.

From my experience Severn/Bristow is certainly flexible and have good instructors. If they are busy be aware they will take as much business as they can to meet their targets. This is understandable but it will effect your training. If they are quiet then you get the their full attention. I choose them because they were the best value for money and flexible and I got exactly what I paid for. There was of course the naive idea that it would help me get a job with Bristow. Don't fall for that one, especially when they are trying not to let anyone go at the moment. From what I have seen Bond are more structured but if they are busy and are limited with aircraft then your training could be delayed. If I was going to do it again and wasn't worried about money I would pick the least busy school with perhaps Bond edging slightly ahead given that people have been hired by them recently. You should also factor renewal after 12 months because unfortunately you still might not have a job. The type rating really doesn't play into it that much with only 150hrs I'm afraid.

I heard that one of Severn's instructors recently left for StarSpeed to set up an IR school. It might be worth checking this new school out too. He was a very experienced pilot, a good instructor and really knew what he was talking about. An instructor who really cares about his students. And don't forget Helicopter Services in High Wycombe which is respected industry wide. I don't think it matters where your IR comes from, it is about whether there is a need for pilots and your face fits. In fact, in some cases it might be better to choose an independent school.

A bit of thread drift but correct me if I'm wrong, the helicopter industry really is about putting yourself out there and hoping for some good fortune. If you happen to be in front of the right person on the right day when they are in a good mood, your odds increase dramatically! However, a few days later and you're forgotten. If you call them up to reminder them who you are but catch them at the wrong time then your a marked man with absolutely no chance!

I guess one thing you still have some money in the bank. You really need to start thinking about alternates. Don't be so focused and in such a hurry to get out on the North Sea to fly back and forth to the Rigs! If you position yourself correctly you will have 30 more years of flying to do that. It has been really difficult the last 2 years and unfortunately there are no immediate signs things will improve. I certainly don't envy you, focus on increasing your odds and best of luck!

By the way well said both times by Hands_on123!

PT
Plain Torque is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 08:17
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: off me 'ead
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bond or Bristows

I completed my IR with Bristows late last year and was very happy with the standard of instruction that I received; I now work for Bond Offshore. The important fact was that I had an IR, not which school I gained it at. Good luck.
Seymour Belvoir is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 08:43
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you haven't already, phone the places you ultimately want to work and speak to them re job prospects before you commit to the IR.
Droopystop is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 10:36
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They are hardly likely to say "dont bother giving us £50,000 are there are no jobs around" are they?!
hands_on123 is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 10:46
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bond or Bristows?

Originally Posted by Bravo73
Do you want to do your training in an AS355 or an EC135? If it helps your decision making, it is generally easier to transition from a 'steam driven' aircraft to a 'glass cockpit' rather than the other way. The flip side of that is that an EC135 is a very useful rating to have in the 'parapublic' world (ie Police and Air Ambulance). Especially if your IR and type training has been done by the UK's largest operator of EC135s
Agreed with the glass cockpit thing but not for the rest as I am < 150 hours there will always loads of people with the same spec as me but >>> 150 hours

Originally Posted by Plain Torque
If you want personal experience you might be better requesting Private Messages. Most people who have done it the way you're planning are too paranoid to post on PPRuNe in case they are identified and it affects their job prospects.
For those who are hesitating for privacy reason feel free to PM me (By the way, really nice post Plain Torque ). Thanks to all of those who have already replied your point of view is an asset.

Originally Posted by Bravo73
To hands-on123, Camp Freddie & Peter PanPan,

I'm sure that the OP is very appreciative to get all of this career advice but it doesn't seem to be what he is after. He has already made the decision to do his IR and is just looking for some input as to which school to choose.

So then, Bristow/Severn or Bond?
Indeed I have already made my decision to go for IR and I have a backup plan if it doesn't work out for me in flying Helicopters (also I am not interested by CFI etc...). I have accepted the fact that this is a high risk and I will have no jobs but I am like you ==> I love it and would like to take my chances.
HeliboyDreamer is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 11:49
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@ hands_on123: Fully agree with you about the 135 hours CPL courses, they leave you on a very fragile spot unless you got something lined up back home because you know people.

But hey I guess we are muddying waters here like someone else mentioned

I don't even know why this fascinating topic is causing so much verbiage, no point in thinking this whole thing through since money is obviously not a factor here :

Sure go ahead and spend those 56.000 euros with Bond!
Peter PanPan is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 12:01
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
By the way shouldn't this thread be under: http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/116...nt-rating.html ?

Mods, anyone?
Peter PanPan is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2011, 12:15
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,924
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by HeliboyDreamer
Agreed with the glass cockpit thing but not for the rest as I am < 150 hours there will always loads of people with the same spec as me but >>> 150 hours
Well, I obviously wasn't thinking that you were going to walk straight out of the Bond IR school into one of their Air Ambulance slots. That's still years away for you, I'm afraid. But you still want to keep an eye on the future and with this in mind, a EC135 rating will probably be more useful than an AS355 rating. However, doing the IR on an AS355 will arguably be better for your flying skills.

Personally, I would go to Severn/Bristow.
Bravo73 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.