The Rotary Nostalgia Thread
Never enough flying for a true RH, but watch TV as an option? Never!
Sorry to hear that you've finally had an engine failure: why do I get the impression that it would have been a bit of a non-event?
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Helios & Bikes
Now, why did I think someone would suggest that John ... its been almost sixty years since I first rode a Speed Twin and then a Tiger 100. Not sure I could stay upright any more so perhaps I should just watch the I of M TT guys on TV! And thanks for the TALY update. Regards to all. DRK.
The History of the Helicopter: YouTube
British Pathe have uploaded thousands of early films to YouTube, including The History of the Helicopter along with many others in their account:
This one has memories: Dad was OiC of the Met helicopter trial
Plenty more to whet your appetite
156mph, and a retractable too:
This one has memories: Dad was OiC of the Met helicopter trial
Plenty more to whet your appetite
156mph, and a retractable too:
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MBB BO-105 question
Hi folks,
I'm looking for some information and hoping someone on here could help me out. I know very little about helicopters; I'm an instrument tech that works offshore so I just sit in the back. I'm a keen scale modeller and I'm currently trying to recreate helicopters that have flown in the North Sea for rig worker transport.
At present I'm building a 1/72 scale MBB BO-105 operated by North Scottish circa 1976 - 77. The reg is G-BDYZ (I think there's some photos of her earlier on in this thread). These were used a bit before my time (I'm use to super puma L1 & L2, 225's & S-92's) - from what I'm aware these were used as shuttle aircraft during the early 'hook-up' days and would take 4 pax plus the pilot. My main question and sorry if this is a daft one, but as one passenger would be in the front, would one of the cyclics be removed?
Further to this; any information about the Bölkows operated by North Scottish / Management Aviation would be much appreciated (notes about the interior, seats, boot, colours etc)
Sorry for the long winded question. Thanks in advance for any information.
Thanks and Regards
Aaron
I'm looking for some information and hoping someone on here could help me out. I know very little about helicopters; I'm an instrument tech that works offshore so I just sit in the back. I'm a keen scale modeller and I'm currently trying to recreate helicopters that have flown in the North Sea for rig worker transport.
At present I'm building a 1/72 scale MBB BO-105 operated by North Scottish circa 1976 - 77. The reg is G-BDYZ (I think there's some photos of her earlier on in this thread). These were used a bit before my time (I'm use to super puma L1 & L2, 225's & S-92's) - from what I'm aware these were used as shuttle aircraft during the early 'hook-up' days and would take 4 pax plus the pilot. My main question and sorry if this is a daft one, but as one passenger would be in the front, would one of the cyclics be removed?
Further to this; any information about the Bölkows operated by North Scottish / Management Aviation would be much appreciated (notes about the interior, seats, boot, colours etc)
Sorry for the long winded question. Thanks in advance for any information.
Thanks and Regards
Aaron
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I spent over a year flying the 105 for North Scottish, an excellent company. They were mainly used for inter shuttle work as the workers did 12 hour shifts, so we would swap them at 0600 & 1800 or noon/midnight. We also did some medevacs & flights from Longside or Aberdeen as well as some important staff changes. Fuel load allowing we carried 4 pax, I think the left hand controls were removed, can't remember now!
milktrip,
On the Brent Field we had North Scottish Bo105 in their white colour scheme, which was used as a 'taxi' against the BEAS 212 'bus'.
I only passengered in a 105 once, but it was certainly very cramped in the back, and there were no duals in the front. ISTR that there was a liferaft stowed behind the pilot's seat which precluded the use of the right rear seat, limiting the pax to three. This may have been a local requirement, however.
On the Brent Field we had North Scottish Bo105 in their white colour scheme, which was used as a 'taxi' against the BEAS 212 'bus'.
I only passengered in a 105 once, but it was certainly very cramped in the back, and there were no duals in the front. ISTR that there was a liferaft stowed behind the pilot's seat which precluded the use of the right rear seat, limiting the pax to three. This may have been a local requirement, however.
Avoid imitations
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It's a legal requirement for duals to be removed if a passenger is carried in a crew seat for a PT flight.
Better not have duals in in case your model gets ramp checked.....
Better not have duals in in case your model gets ramp checked.....
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Cheers guys 
excellent stuff.
When you say no duals in the front does that mean the front 'passenger seat' tail rotor pedals and pitch control lever were also removed or just the cyclic?
Interesting point about the liferaft John. I wondered about this and was just going to role up a ball of milliput, paint it orange a stow it under the rear bench seats, but I'll maybe look a bit further into this. This one will be in the white scheme but I'm hoping to complete a couple more in time (G-BAMF in management aviation colours. G-BAFD in Bond colours, I think this may have been used for lighthouse ops rather offshore oil & gas transport / shuttle. Oh, and maybe another north scottish Bölkow but I the luminous red, almost orange, colour) plenty to keep me busy
You mention the 212, I'm hoping to build a couple of these too. In particular G-BALZ in early bristows livery. Some info on the interior of the 212's would be handy. There are loads of photos available but trying to determine what the seating type and seating arrangement were has proven difficult. When in operation in the UK North Sea would the 212 (specifically G-BALZ) have canvas bench seating with 4 facing aft, another 4 facing front and 2 either side, just next to the doors, facing out wards. Or similar seating arrangement but with more substantial and comfier looking seats with head rests?
BEAS are another operator I was looking into but was quite interested in the alouette II operated by them but for the forestry spreading in the late 60's early 70's. again, plenty to keep me occupied...
Thanks and regards
Aaron
excellent stuff.When you say no duals in the front does that mean the front 'passenger seat' tail rotor pedals and pitch control lever were also removed or just the cyclic?
Interesting point about the liferaft John. I wondered about this and was just going to role up a ball of milliput, paint it orange a stow it under the rear bench seats, but I'll maybe look a bit further into this. This one will be in the white scheme but I'm hoping to complete a couple more in time (G-BAMF in management aviation colours. G-BAFD in Bond colours, I think this may have been used for lighthouse ops rather offshore oil & gas transport / shuttle. Oh, and maybe another north scottish Bölkow but I the luminous red, almost orange, colour) plenty to keep me busy
You mention the 212, I'm hoping to build a couple of these too. In particular G-BALZ in early bristows livery. Some info on the interior of the 212's would be handy
. There are loads of photos available but trying to determine what the seating type and seating arrangement were has proven difficult. When in operation in the UK North Sea would the 212 (specifically G-BALZ) have canvas bench seating with 4 facing aft, another 4 facing front and 2 either side, just next to the doors, facing out wards. Or similar seating arrangement but with more substantial and comfier looking seats with head rests? BEAS are another operator I was looking into but was quite interested in the alouette II operated by them but for the forestry spreading in the late 60's early 70's. again, plenty to keep me occupied...
Thanks and regards
Aaron
You mention the 212, I'm hoping to build a couple of these too. In particular G-BALZ in early bristows livery. Some info on the interior of the 212's would be handy . There are loads of photos available but trying to determine what the seating type and seating arrangement were has proven difficult. When in operation in the UK North Sea would the 212 (specifically G-BALZ) have canvas bench seating with 4 facing aft, another 4 facing front and 2 either side, just next to the doors, facing out wards. Or similar seating arrangement but with more substantial and comfier looking seats with head rests?
BEAS are another operator I was looking into but was quite interested in the alouette II operated by them but for the forestry spreading in the late 60's early 70's. again, plenty to keep me occupied...
Thanks and regards
Aaron
. There are loads of photos available but trying to determine what the seating type and seating arrangement were has proven difficult. When in operation in the UK North Sea would the 212 (specifically G-BALZ) have canvas bench seating with 4 facing aft, another 4 facing front and 2 either side, just next to the doors, facing out wards. Or similar seating arrangement but with more substantial and comfier looking seats with head rests? BEAS are another operator I was looking into but was quite interested in the alouette II operated by them but for the forestry spreading in the late 60's early 70's. again, plenty to keep me occupied...
Thanks and regards
Aaron
Normal fit for the 4 BEAS 212s were the normal 4 aft facing/5 fwd facing bench seats in the normal Bell grey with a 20usg tank in the port well with two cushion seats, and either another 20usg tank in the starboard well with seats, or a 90usg tank with (obviously) no seats. Initially we had a life raft jammed under the fwd bench seats, but later this was acknowledged to be virtually useless so a Heath Robinson fix had it lashed with a seat belt to the starboard door ahead of the sliding door. In this configuration the liferaft (they all had a yellow cover) was sitting on end and visible through the small window that you can see in the middle of the photo.
Sometimes we had two 90 gallon tanks and only 9 pax seats, but very rarely. This photo of BALZ has the 90usg in the stbd well and the modified tailboom paint job:
Avoid imitations
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When you say no duals in the front does that mean the front 'passenger seat' tail rotor pedals and pitch control lever were also removed or just the cyclic?
Howcanwebeexpectedtoflylikeeagles
whensurroundedbyturkeys
The only parts of the Bolkow 105 dual controls which were not removable (easily) were the yaw pedals. They were however disconnected from the control run under the floor so were totally ineffective.
As JE says, there was a liferaft strapped behind the pilot's seat but it did not preclude the use of any of the rear seats. Someone just had to sit with their legs either side of it if all three rear seats were occupied. Oh Happy Days flying to the likes of the Capalonga which used to roll like bxxggxry and had a deck crew who always managed to pull one of the rear doors off its runners !
Milktrip, check your PMs
.
As JE says, there was a liferaft strapped behind the pilot's seat but it did not preclude the use of any of the rear seats. Someone just had to sit with their legs either side of it if all three rear seats were occupied. Oh Happy Days flying to the likes of the Capalonga which used to roll like bxxggxry and had a deck crew who always managed to pull one of the rear doors off its runners !
Milktrip, check your PMs
.
Last edited by HughMartin; 19th Apr 2014 at 15:20.
Hugh,
If you think that was bad, try a landing on Sevenstones, Channel, or Dowsing light vessels..
The Bolkow was probably the only aircraft at the time that could have pulled it off
If you think that was bad, try a landing on Sevenstones, Channel, or Dowsing light vessels..
The Bolkow was probably the only aircraft at the time that could have pulled it off
Hugh,
Thanks for the details on the Bo105 back seat: do you also recall the story of the extra pax in the back off the Capalonga, night, and the photo on finals?
I had a quick head check one night when about to lift with (supposedly) 9 pax for the Capalonga, and saw an extra 2 standing in the 'aisle'. How they got past the deck crew I've no idea
We were always so impressed that the Capalonga was 0.1 degree below our B212 pitch and roll limits when landing on her: I could cheerfully strangle whoever gave them our limits. I saw 20 degrees of roll while sitting on the deck once, and isn't there another story of a 105 sliding on the deck and having to get airborne with the cargo doors open?
Thanks for the details on the Bo105 back seat: do you also recall the story of the extra pax in the back off the Capalonga, night, and the photo on finals?
I had a quick head check one night when about to lift with (supposedly) 9 pax for the Capalonga, and saw an extra 2 standing in the 'aisle'. How they got past the deck crew I've no idea
We were always so impressed that the Capalonga was 0.1 degree below our B212 pitch and roll limits when landing on her: I could cheerfully strangle whoever gave them our limits. I saw 20 degrees of roll while sitting on the deck once, and isn't there another story of a 105 sliding on the deck and having to get airborne with the cargo doors open?
An interesting article about the Capalonga from the Shell Times with a picture of a North Scottish 105 on page three, and a neat photo on approach to the deck on the last page!
Capalonga became the 'Brent fire engine' some time after I was there: it was a diving support vessel only in the mid/late 70s.
Capalonga became the 'Brent fire engine' some time after I was there: it was a diving support vessel only in the mid/late 70s.
Spinning! I used to enjoy spinning, so much so that I would use it as a technique to lose height. My last ever, before I went on to rotary, was in a Chipmunk.
Honington, 1964. Our Valiants were being towed away to be scrapped and to keep us in flying practice whilst they sorted out somewhere to send the aircrew the Squadron was issued with a Chipmunk and I was O/C. There was a surprising reticence to take up this facility by the other pilots so I, virtually, had it to myself.
This was an opputunity to get our ground crew airborne as there had been no chance on the Valiant unless you were the aircraft's crew chief. So I was now running a Squadron AEF. I would take one up for about twenty minutes, they would change over in the back and off we would go again. I would let them have the feel of the controls and if they felt like it show them some aeros, progressivly, staring with an airleron roll to loops etc.
I had this one in the back who was as bright as a sparrow. Loads of enthusiasm. Roll, loops, stall turns, every one a winner. I then demonstrated a spin.
Close the throttle, control stick back and on the stall full left rudder. Give it three tuens to develop and then recover. Full right rudder and the stick forward precisely on the Direction Indicator on the instrument panel.
Nothing happened. It kept spinning.
It was now getting quite serious because we were about 3,500 ft and the altimeter was in overdrive. I applied full Pro-spin control to ensure it was in an upright spin as a guard against the unlikely fact that it had gone inverted. Then I again applied full anti-spin.
Three turns later it grudgingly came out. We levelled at 1,200 ft.
My passanger was still full of beans and he was saddened when I told him his time was up (I didn't tell him how close to fact that statement was) and we landed back at Honington.
It was time for a refuel so I shut it down, climbed onto the wing to assist my passengert. He was struggling to get out of the cockpit; not surpisingly because he must have weighed about twenty stones. I hadn't seen him being loaded on as it was a running change and I was negotiating something with ATC at the time.
We were almost certainly at or beyond the aft CofG limit which it why the aircraft behaved the way it did. In my defence we were not informed of any limit on rear passenger weight when I was checked out.
My next spin was in a Puma, but thats another story.
Honington, 1964. Our Valiants were being towed away to be scrapped and to keep us in flying practice whilst they sorted out somewhere to send the aircrew the Squadron was issued with a Chipmunk and I was O/C. There was a surprising reticence to take up this facility by the other pilots so I, virtually, had it to myself.
This was an opputunity to get our ground crew airborne as there had been no chance on the Valiant unless you were the aircraft's crew chief. So I was now running a Squadron AEF. I would take one up for about twenty minutes, they would change over in the back and off we would go again. I would let them have the feel of the controls and if they felt like it show them some aeros, progressivly, staring with an airleron roll to loops etc.
I had this one in the back who was as bright as a sparrow. Loads of enthusiasm. Roll, loops, stall turns, every one a winner. I then demonstrated a spin.
Close the throttle, control stick back and on the stall full left rudder. Give it three tuens to develop and then recover. Full right rudder and the stick forward precisely on the Direction Indicator on the instrument panel.
Nothing happened. It kept spinning.
It was now getting quite serious because we were about 3,500 ft and the altimeter was in overdrive. I applied full Pro-spin control to ensure it was in an upright spin as a guard against the unlikely fact that it had gone inverted. Then I again applied full anti-spin.
Three turns later it grudgingly came out. We levelled at 1,200 ft.
My passanger was still full of beans and he was saddened when I told him his time was up (I didn't tell him how close to fact that statement was) and we landed back at Honington.
It was time for a refuel so I shut it down, climbed onto the wing to assist my passengert. He was struggling to get out of the cockpit; not surpisingly because he must have weighed about twenty stones. I hadn't seen him being loaded on as it was a running change and I was negotiating something with ATC at the time.
We were almost certainly at or beyond the aft CofG limit which it why the aircraft behaved the way it did. In my defence we were not informed of any limit on rear passenger weight when I was checked out.
My next spin was in a Puma, but thats another story.
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Big thank you again guys; I'm sure I'll be back for more info nice to read the stories too.
Hugh I've replied to you PM
Thanks a lot for the info on G-BALZ. Never had the pleasure of visiting the Brents but I could see them on a clear day / night when on the Dunbar. Quite keen to make a start on this kit now.
Cheers again
Aaron
nice to read the stories too.Hugh I've replied to you PM
Thanks a lot for the info on G-BALZ. Never had the pleasure of visiting the Brents but I could see them on a clear day / night when on the Dunbar. Quite keen to make a start on this kit now.
Cheers again
Aaron
Like John Eacott I seem to remember that the problem with the Capalonga was not landing on her but staying on her. Did she not roll to one side then hesitate before slowly rolling back to the other extremity and doing the same thing? If I recall correctly it was easy to land when the roll reached the mid point but staying on the deck was sometimes something else!
with the Meteor T7. All I can say about that is that it was an alarming experience
The theory was that the weight of two pilots assisted the recovery. One of our Flt Sgt QFIs, that's going back a bit, emphasised the point by pointing at one of our T7s on the line and declaring that there wasn't a problem spinning it when it was an F4. It must have been something to do with the long canopy and still retaining the same fin and rudder assembly.
Our Vampies wer getting a bit tired in 1961 and some of them were a bit warped which was not surprising considering that the wings had to be pushed around by two thin booms. There would be various Red Line Entrys in the book.
'No solo spins.'
'No Solo aerobatics.'
'No spinning.'
Fortunately at the end of 1961 they found a Refurbished Vampire mine so most of our aircraft were replaced. Most of them went to Swinderby when our FTS moved except a couple whose final act was as the backdrop to my Passing Out parade from which they were towed to the dump and scrapped.
Dogs and squaddies love flying. When you have a dog handler come aboard he can't hold the dog back. The best place for a dog is between the pilots so he can see everything that's going on. The most ferocious war dog is like butter when he is there. Initial air experience for sqaddies was a case of throwing it about as much as possible and the next crowd, having seen what had been going on would be shouting for even more.
This attitude came to an end, tragically, at Catterick a few years ago.