Helicopters and Volcanic Ash?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Well ive just this minute come off the phone to Cardiff Tower and they are saying that VFR is ok, they have suggested I read Notam H902/10 issued this morning.
Just spoken to Maintenance Org to look at the Rolls Royce flight in volcanic dust advice and that basically says avoid it if you can but have more compressor washes and watch out for reduced power !!
Just spoken to Maintenance Org to look at the Rolls Royce flight in volcanic dust advice and that basically says avoid it if you can but have more compressor washes and watch out for reduced power !!
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The Thames Valley Police chopper is still flying as its hovering over the remains of the Cherwell Valley Services which has been generating its own plume for the last couple of hours 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Are we securing us to death?
I started to think about today's total ban of SAR and HEMS ops in Norway.
Where I am now, there's blue skies 360 degrees as long as you can see, but SAR and HEMS ops are grounded because of volcanic ash.
The reason is that they can't operate if IFR traffic isn't allowed. But now it's daylight and perfect VFR weather...
The society today is extremely safety-focused, and it's always "safety first". But are we fooling ourselves by beeing too cautious? What risk is involved in flying VFR at 2000ft when you can't even see trace of volcanic ash in the atmosphere? Are the SAR or HEMS crew at a great risk if they fly VFR now?
Surely, the pasients who would need help now won't get as fast to the hospital, and won't get a doctor out to the accident site. Not to mention if something happens offshore at an oil-platform, or to a ship...
Are we securing ourselves to death by jeapordising potential patients' security over something that maybe isn't that dangerous?
What if a train disaster happened up in a remote area now? I guess they would allow helicopters to assist, but there are quite a few accidents a day that are life/death situations depending on a rapid HEMS service. People don't decide NOT to get injured today or tomorrow...
I clearly understand that IFR traffic may be dangerous because you don't know what you may fly into, but VFR...?
Is this the consequence of a "safety first" society? Where the most dangerous a kid can do is to put on his helmet, because he might get pinched by the strap-lock...?
Where I am now, there's blue skies 360 degrees as long as you can see, but SAR and HEMS ops are grounded because of volcanic ash.
The reason is that they can't operate if IFR traffic isn't allowed. But now it's daylight and perfect VFR weather...
The society today is extremely safety-focused, and it's always "safety first". But are we fooling ourselves by beeing too cautious? What risk is involved in flying VFR at 2000ft when you can't even see trace of volcanic ash in the atmosphere? Are the SAR or HEMS crew at a great risk if they fly VFR now?
Surely, the pasients who would need help now won't get as fast to the hospital, and won't get a doctor out to the accident site. Not to mention if something happens offshore at an oil-platform, or to a ship...
Are we securing ourselves to death by jeapordising potential patients' security over something that maybe isn't that dangerous?
What if a train disaster happened up in a remote area now? I guess they would allow helicopters to assist, but there are quite a few accidents a day that are life/death situations depending on a rapid HEMS service. People don't decide NOT to get injured today or tomorrow...
I clearly understand that IFR traffic may be dangerous because you don't know what you may fly into, but VFR...?
Is this the consequence of a "safety first" society? Where the most dangerous a kid can do is to put on his helmet, because he might get pinched by the strap-lock...?
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It's not, and never has been, a "safety first" society.
It is however, an "I'll make sure I don't get sued for damages" society.
Which is why such idiocy as a blanket ban on all flights gets imposed without any conscious thought. Wonder if the cause of death of people the coming days will be listed as "volcanic ash cloud"
It is however, an "I'll make sure I don't get sued for damages" society.
Which is why such idiocy as a blanket ban on all flights gets imposed without any conscious thought. Wonder if the cause of death of people the coming days will be listed as "volcanic ash cloud"
The world has gone barking mad - yes it is an excellent idea not to fly into a volcanic ash cloud but to stay on the ground when the weather is 8/8 blue is ridiculous.
The SARF is ops only at the moment and one has to wonder at the logic - if it is too dangerous to fly because of the ash then it is too dangerous to fly full stop. If it is safe to fly on SAROPs then it is safe to fly on training.
Our helos have a very splendid sandfilter/particle separator on the engines which is good enough for Afghanistan sand but not good enough for Icelandic ash!!!!!
All around the country, mil aircraft are being wheeled into hangars to protect them while the sun still shines brightly in the sky - talk about risk-averse decision making
The SARF is ops only at the moment and one has to wonder at the logic - if it is too dangerous to fly because of the ash then it is too dangerous to fly full stop. If it is safe to fly on SAROPs then it is safe to fly on training.
Our helos have a very splendid sandfilter/particle separator on the engines which is good enough for Afghanistan sand but not good enough for Icelandic ash!!!!!
All around the country, mil aircraft are being wheeled into hangars to protect them while the sun still shines brightly in the sky - talk about risk-averse decision making
Where is Captain Sensible?
Of course you do not fly into any sort of debris....doh!
If debris is in cloud so you can't see it then you have to stay clear of cloud....doh!
If you can't guarantee being able to stay clear of cloud then don't fly.....doh!
but then NATS guy mentioned 'no flying in commercial airspace' on telly.....does that mean that if I'm parked within an ATZ then I can't take off - yet my farmstrip mate can?
The ASH is not a player at lower levels (as I rant)- will someone at NATS please grow some balls!!!!!!!
World has gone mad and lunatics have taken over.........
Read the effing NOTAM - vfr only
If debris is in cloud so you can't see it then you have to stay clear of cloud....doh!
If you can't guarantee being able to stay clear of cloud then don't fly.....doh!
but then NATS guy mentioned 'no flying in commercial airspace' on telly.....does that mean that if I'm parked within an ATZ then I can't take off - yet my farmstrip mate can?
The ASH is not a player at lower levels (as I rant)- will someone at NATS please grow some balls!!!!!!!
World has gone mad and lunatics have taken over.........
Read the effing NOTAM - vfr only
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Volcano
So whats the crack with all this ash stuff then.. Looks like it could go on for days judging by the ashtam
I presume the CAA are going into the 'starting volcanos market' cause that seems to be the best way of stopping the UK from flying. Something they have been trying to do for years.
I presume the CAA are going into the 'starting volcanos market' cause that seems to be the best way of stopping the UK from flying. Something they have been trying to do for years.
Last edited by B.U.D.G.I.E; 15th Apr 2010 at 17:49.
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been flying all day today not seen any ash can't see what the bother is and as at 1800 local north london was still blue skys is this stuff invisible or am i missing something?
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Spoke to our maint org earlier and they said that Turbomeca, RR and P&W were all putting out advice not to fly and therefore so were they. With Battersea shut to most traffic it's a bit academic at the mo.
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Have had students asking if they can fly tomorrow. Although it will be a Hughes 300 and the sky is due to be clear, the dust that accumulated on my car tonight makes me wonder what would be happening to my blades. The blades have already lost the paint from normal clean air operation, who knows what wear they would experience during the 3 hours planned flying in potential grit filled air? Any views?
Im leaning towards NOT flying but would appreciate some back up or sensible advice.
HB999
Im leaning towards NOT flying but would appreciate some back up or sensible advice.
HB999
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Ash in Europe
Tango 123, this is a totally different mountain (Fimmvorduhals), this is just a mountain with lava and no ash at all, but this one today (Eyjafjallajokull) is way underneath a ice with a lot of ash. Just keep the fingers crossed that the next glacier east with the mountain Krafla doesnt start, there we are most likely talking about months !
Chief Bottle Washer
Originally Posted by Helikopter
Just keep the fingers crossed that the next glacier east with the mountain Krafla doesnt start, there we are most likely talking about months
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HB999
I think that's a very reasonable request for advice under these abnormal circumstances and am surprised there haven't been more.
I'm actually on the other side of the world so I'm only reading about what is going on in Europe. My advice would be to exercise greater than normal caution in making that decision to fly. Obviously, if a restriction is placed on vfr flight in UK then the decision is taken away from you, but even lacking any flight restriction, if there is ash or thicker than normal dust settling on your car, I would have to consider what it would do to the air filter whilst airborne, or to the blades as you mentioned.
There seems to be some disgruntlement and disbelief at the caution being displayed by those in authority, maybe it is overkill, I don't know, however, sometimes we just have to accept that those decisions are made by fairly smart guys, being paid to make wise decisions for the benefit of most people.
You might ask your senior pilot for his advice, get some top cover. Or ask the person who is liable to pay for the repairs if any damage is caused.
These are abnormal conditions, it's a very reasonable cause for some concern.
Have a good flight......or not.
Tam
I'm actually on the other side of the world so I'm only reading about what is going on in Europe. My advice would be to exercise greater than normal caution in making that decision to fly. Obviously, if a restriction is placed on vfr flight in UK then the decision is taken away from you, but even lacking any flight restriction, if there is ash or thicker than normal dust settling on your car, I would have to consider what it would do to the air filter whilst airborne, or to the blades as you mentioned.
There seems to be some disgruntlement and disbelief at the caution being displayed by those in authority, maybe it is overkill, I don't know, however, sometimes we just have to accept that those decisions are made by fairly smart guys, being paid to make wise decisions for the benefit of most people.
You might ask your senior pilot for his advice, get some top cover. Or ask the person who is liable to pay for the repairs if any damage is caused.
These are abnormal conditions, it's a very reasonable cause for some concern.
Have a good flight......or not.
Tam
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We have been flying around active Volcanoes here in Hawaii since the early eighties. They are still active and we are still flying.
I can understand the High go fast guys need to divert, but the Helo folk's standing down is a total Joke.
Here in the USA the operators tend to have the final say rather then the Govt.
But then again that is about to change with this New Administration's One World Order....
I can understand the High go fast guys need to divert, but the Helo folk's standing down is a total Joke.
Here in the USA the operators tend to have the final say rather then the Govt.
But then again that is about to change with this New Administration's One World Order....
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Um,
That is true. But in the early Day's (83 or 84) of the Mauna Loa eruptions which lasted many week's we continued flying up close and personal.
Mind you some of the operators did have turbine problems as well as pitted windshields and the occasional damaged blades from folks crossing down wind and to close to the eruption site.
That is true. But in the early Day's (83 or 84) of the Mauna Loa eruptions which lasted many week's we continued flying up close and personal.
Mind you some of the operators did have turbine problems as well as pitted windshields and the occasional damaged blades from folks crossing down wind and to close to the eruption site.
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What goes up, must come down.
This ash falls down so you will definitely encounter it at lower levels in not such a long time.
On a lighter note. I am thinking about starting an auction here. How much do you want to pay me for putting the plug back in the Eyjafjallajokull volcano?
This ash falls down so you will definitely encounter it at lower levels in not such a long time.
On a lighter note. I am thinking about starting an auction here. How much do you want to pay me for putting the plug back in the Eyjafjallajokull volcano?
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NOTAMS
Got up at 04:30 this morning, checked the NOTAMS stating "NO IFR flights", got out to the airport to find out that the entire airport is closed even for VFR.
Looks like the entire airport staff decided to take a day off.
Looks like the entire airport staff decided to take a day off.
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Take a good look in your engine maint manuals. This is from PWC.
J. Aircraft Flown through Volcanic Ash or Smoke.
(1) Do a compressor wash - performance recovery (Ref. Chapter 71-00-00, POWER
PLANT - CLEANING).
(2) Drain and refill the engine oil system (Ref. Chapter 72-00-00, ENGINE GENERALSERVICING).
(3) Replace the oil filter (Ref. Chapter 79-21-00, OIL SYSTEM (DISTRIBUTION)-
MAINTENANCE PRACTICE).
(4) Do a function check of the chip detector (Ref. Chapter 72-00-00, ENGINE
GENERAL-SERVICING).
(5) Inspect the compressor for damage (Ref. Chapter 72-00-00, ENGINE
GENERAL-INSPECTION).
(6) Do a power assurance check as per the Applicable Aircraft Manual.
(7) Drain and refill the engine oil system with new oil after 50 ±10 hour (Ref. Chapter
72-00-00, ENGINE GENERAL-SERVICING).(1) Do a compressor wash - performance recovery (Ref. Chapter 71-00-00, POWER
PLANT - CLEANING).
(2) Drain and refill the engine oil system (Ref. Chapter 72-00-00, ENGINE GENERALSERVICING).
(3) Replace the oil filter (Ref. Chapter 79-21-00, OIL SYSTEM (DISTRIBUTION)-
MAINTENANCE PRACTICE).
(4) Do a function check of the chip detector (Ref. Chapter 72-00-00, ENGINE
GENERAL-SERVICING).
(5) Inspect the compressor for damage (Ref. Chapter 72-00-00, ENGINE
GENERAL-INSPECTION).
(6) Do a power assurance check as per the Applicable Aircraft Manual.
(7) Drain and refill the engine oil system with new oil after 50 ±10 hour (Ref. Chapter