Helicopters and Volcanic Ash?
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NATS announce restrictions in place until 01:00 Sunday... interesting video at BBC
BBC News - Ash plane 'finds a lot of muck' in UK airspace
Worringly he states lower level crap that wx radar etc does not see..... Maybe this will explain the dangers a bit more clearly to doubters???
BBC News - Ash plane 'finds a lot of muck' in UK airspace
Worringly he states lower level crap that wx radar etc does not see..... Maybe this will explain the dangers a bit more clearly to doubters???
Beady Eye
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Malabo (and others)
Commercial aviation is and must put safety first risks must be mitigated as much as possible. Why? Lets look at it from the ATC perspective, if NATS had a mid air or very close airprox people will lose confidence in us and they will cease to use us, our revenues will drop and we'll go out of business. The shudder that went through the entire ATC community after Überlingen can still be felt.
The same applies to aviation companies, if you think that you're much more clever than those hidebound bureaucrats who are stopping you flying and took a load of SLF aloft, then crashed and they died, how bad is that for your business, how many people are going to want to fly with a company that takes risks? Do you not think that hunkering down until this is over, albeit with massive cost implications, is preferable to getting airborne with, what the experts consider, a real possibility of an accident which will deter SLF from flying with you and your company will go bankrupt?
BD
The same applies to aviation companies, if you think that you're much more clever than those hidebound bureaucrats who are stopping you flying and took a load of SLF aloft, then crashed and they died, how bad is that for your business, how many people are going to want to fly with a company that takes risks? Do you not think that hunkering down until this is over, albeit with massive cost implications, is preferable to getting airborne with, what the experts consider, a real possibility of an accident which will deter SLF from flying with you and your company will go bankrupt?
BD
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North Sea Ops
For info - an EC225 has just lifted off the Sedco 704 en route for Aberdeen at 0840 local time. 
This a/c had been shut down offshore since the 14th due to a tech problem. Another EC225 will be lifting from ABZ shortly to fly to the S704, there may be one or two other flights this morning before the ash cloud returns this afternoon
Edit - there are now 5 North Sea helicopters airborne in the Central area at 0930 local.
This a/c had been shut down offshore since the 14th due to a tech problem. Another EC225 will be lifting from ABZ shortly to fly to the S704, there may be one or two other flights this morning before the ash cloud returns this afternoon
Edit - there are now 5 North Sea helicopters airborne in the Central area at 0930 local.
Last edited by coatimundi; 17th Apr 2010 at 08:31.
Interesting one this. We all have our perceptions of what is safe or not, and indeed make judgements every day when we fly. Very few of us are experts on volcanic ash however.
On Thursday, I was tasked to fly, and after gathering as much information as I could, judged that it was safe, at the altitudes and latitudes I needed, and so proceeded.
However, looking at the last few posts above, it looks like some pilots like Double Bogey could have a major conundrum.
It appears that some NS pilots do not believe it is safe to fly, and yet at least one operator has started operating again. If one company has started, then there will be pressure on all the operators.
However, ultimately the aircraft captain is responsible for the safe flight of his aircraft. How much will your company support you as a commander if you refuse to fly?
On Thursday, I was tasked to fly, and after gathering as much information as I could, judged that it was safe, at the altitudes and latitudes I needed, and so proceeded.
However, looking at the last few posts above, it looks like some pilots like Double Bogey could have a major conundrum.
It appears that some NS pilots do not believe it is safe to fly, and yet at least one operator has started operating again. If one company has started, then there will be pressure on all the operators.
However, ultimately the aircraft captain is responsible for the safe flight of his aircraft. How much will your company support you as a commander if you refuse to fly?
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We have barrier filters .... still can't get into france since they have taken the blunt step of CLOSING their FIR ...
I am happy that it is not a risk to us.
I suppose the difference in approach is explicable in terms of how bureaucracies function...
It would be unreasonable to ask a body that does not know, to make the descision - they would have to say NO because to say yes (if indeed it were in fact ok) would take the exercise of judgement which understandably they do not have, and have no incentive to use.
The private busness has every incentive to make that judgment well....
as BdIOnUpoints out :
"a real possibility of an accident which will deter SLF from flying with you and your company will go bankrupt?"
If they don't know they have to say NO.
Companies carry the responsibility of jobs and lives and are accustomed to making those judgments ... whereas in a non commercial world there is little need to make any judgments on these issues ... they rarely have to ....
When all descissions are made by disinterested bureaucrats companies lose the ability to judge and eventually end up doing anything which is allowed if it makes a buck - this is likely to be worse.
I am happy that it is not a risk to us.
I suppose the difference in approach is explicable in terms of how bureaucracies function...
It would be unreasonable to ask a body that does not know, to make the descision - they would have to say NO because to say yes (if indeed it were in fact ok) would take the exercise of judgement which understandably they do not have, and have no incentive to use.
The private busness has every incentive to make that judgment well....
as BdIOnUpoints out :
"a real possibility of an accident which will deter SLF from flying with you and your company will go bankrupt?"
If they don't know they have to say NO.
Companies carry the responsibility of jobs and lives and are accustomed to making those judgments ... whereas in a non commercial world there is little need to make any judgments on these issues ... they rarely have to ....
When all descissions are made by disinterested bureaucrats companies lose the ability to judge and eventually end up doing anything which is allowed if it makes a buck - this is likely to be worse.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Still no ash deposits on the car!
Anyway, everyone mentions it but doesn't post it, so here it is;
And the Isle of Man;
VFR OPERATORS SHOULD OPERATE EXTREME CAUTION AND MUST ASSURE THEMSELVES THAT THEIR FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING.
I wonder if Mr Ryanair is thinking of VFR'ing a 737 across to Dublin
I bet the news agencies are glad they have this to report on, the scipt is made for them and the world awaits... but wait a mo, all this with the election so close as well. I hope that Dead Donkey story is ready for May 8th
It's another lovely day, birds-a-singing, sun-a-shining, lets keep things as they are....Why vote for change!
Anyway, everyone mentions it but doesn't post it, so here it is;
Q) EGXX/QWWLW/IV/NBO/W/000/195/5441N00219W999
B) FROM: 10/04/16 21:44C) TO: 10/04/17 12:00 EST
E) A VOLCANIC ASH VA CLOUD, ORIGINATING IN ICELAND IS HAVING A MAJOR IMPACT AFFECTING UK AIRSPACE. SCOTTISH AND LONDON FIR/UIR AREAS AFFECTED, BASED ON A PROJECTION FROM THE VOLCANIC ASH ADVISORY MESSAGE IS AS FOLLOWS:
170000 EAST AND SOUTH OF THE FOLLOWING LINES 5820N 00254E,
5147N 00427W, 5152N 00622W
170600 EAST AND SOUTH OF THE FOLLOWING LINES 5636N 00500E,
5303N 00037W, 5312N 00530W
171200 NORTH OF LINE 6019N 01000W, 6100N 00216W AND SOUTH OF LINE
5651N 00500E, 5244N 00530W
OPR SHOULD REFER TO LATEST VA ADVISORY FOR FURTHER INFO SEE MET OFFICE VAAC LONDON WEBSITE. IN ACCORDANCE WITH ICAO VOLCANIC ASH CONTINGENCY PLAN, NO IFR CLEARANCE WILL BE ISSUED FOR PENETRATION OF THE FORCAST CONTAMINATED AREA WI UK AIRSPACE. LONDON FIR/UIR
REMAINS ZERO RATE UNTIL 1200 APR 17. SCOTTISH AIRSPACE RESTRICTIONS INCLUDING NORTHERN IRELAND AND THE AIRSPACE TO THE WEST OF THE CONTAMINATED AREA INCLUDING PART OF THE NORTH SEA, SHETLAND AND ORKNEY REMAIN LIFTED. MANCHESTER, LIVERPOOL AND ALL AIRPORTS NORTH OF THOSE MAY BE AVBL FM 0300-0900 FOR NORTHBOUND DEPARTURES, SOUTHBOUND ARRIVALS AND FOR WESTBOUND DEPARTURES AND EASTBOUND ARRIVALS SUBJ INDIVIDUAL COORDINATION WITH UK FMP. CAUTION CURRENT FORECASTS SHOWS THAT AFTER 0900 THE ASH CLOUD MOVES NORTH AGAIN AND THAT THE SITUATION IS SUBJ CHANGE AND DIVERSION AIRFIELDS MAY BE A SIGNIFICANT DISTANCE FROM THE ORIGINAL DESTINATION.
VFR OPERATORS SHOULD OPERATE EXTREME CAUTION AND MUST ASSURE THEMSELVES THAT THEIR FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING. NOTE THAT ATSOCAS CAPACITY MAY BE SEVERELY LIMITED DURING THE
PERIOD. AUS 10-04-0218/AS6.LOWER: SFC UPPER: FL195
B) FROM: 10/04/16 21:44C) TO: 10/04/17 12:00 EST
E) A VOLCANIC ASH VA CLOUD, ORIGINATING IN ICELAND IS HAVING A MAJOR IMPACT AFFECTING UK AIRSPACE. SCOTTISH AND LONDON FIR/UIR AREAS AFFECTED, BASED ON A PROJECTION FROM THE VOLCANIC ASH ADVISORY MESSAGE IS AS FOLLOWS:
170000 EAST AND SOUTH OF THE FOLLOWING LINES 5820N 00254E,
5147N 00427W, 5152N 00622W
170600 EAST AND SOUTH OF THE FOLLOWING LINES 5636N 00500E,
5303N 00037W, 5312N 00530W
171200 NORTH OF LINE 6019N 01000W, 6100N 00216W AND SOUTH OF LINE
5651N 00500E, 5244N 00530W
OPR SHOULD REFER TO LATEST VA ADVISORY FOR FURTHER INFO SEE MET OFFICE VAAC LONDON WEBSITE. IN ACCORDANCE WITH ICAO VOLCANIC ASH CONTINGENCY PLAN, NO IFR CLEARANCE WILL BE ISSUED FOR PENETRATION OF THE FORCAST CONTAMINATED AREA WI UK AIRSPACE. LONDON FIR/UIR
REMAINS ZERO RATE UNTIL 1200 APR 17. SCOTTISH AIRSPACE RESTRICTIONS INCLUDING NORTHERN IRELAND AND THE AIRSPACE TO THE WEST OF THE CONTAMINATED AREA INCLUDING PART OF THE NORTH SEA, SHETLAND AND ORKNEY REMAIN LIFTED. MANCHESTER, LIVERPOOL AND ALL AIRPORTS NORTH OF THOSE MAY BE AVBL FM 0300-0900 FOR NORTHBOUND DEPARTURES, SOUTHBOUND ARRIVALS AND FOR WESTBOUND DEPARTURES AND EASTBOUND ARRIVALS SUBJ INDIVIDUAL COORDINATION WITH UK FMP. CAUTION CURRENT FORECASTS SHOWS THAT AFTER 0900 THE ASH CLOUD MOVES NORTH AGAIN AND THAT THE SITUATION IS SUBJ CHANGE AND DIVERSION AIRFIELDS MAY BE A SIGNIFICANT DISTANCE FROM THE ORIGINAL DESTINATION.
VFR OPERATORS SHOULD OPERATE EXTREME CAUTION AND MUST ASSURE THEMSELVES THAT THEIR FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING. NOTE THAT ATSOCAS CAPACITY MAY BE SEVERELY LIMITED DURING THE
PERIOD. AUS 10-04-0218/AS6.LOWER: SFC UPPER: FL195
Q) EGTT/QAEXX/IV/NBO/AE/000/999/5405N00437W999
A) EGNS B) FROM: 10/04/17 05:45C) TO: 10/04/22 11:00
E) WHEREAS THE ISLE OF MAN (IOM) DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEEMS IT NECESSARY IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO RESTRICT OR PROHIBIT FLYING IN IOM AIRSPACE BY REASON OF THE DANGER TO AVIATION CAUSED BY VOLCANIC ASH IN THE ATMOSPHERE, AN ACFT SHALL NOT FLY OVER THE IOM OR THE TERRITORIAL WATERS ADJACENT TO THE IOM EXCEPT WITH THE
PERMISSION OF AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH ANY INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL UNIT AT IOM (RONALDSWAY) AIRPORT. SFC/UNL THE DEPARTMENT MAKES THESE REGULATIONS UNDER ARTICLE 96 OF THE AIR NAVIGATION ORDER 2005, AS IT HAS EFFECT IN THE IOM AND IS DETAILED IN STAUTORY DOCUMENT NO.256/10. FURTHER INFORMATION CAN BE OBTAINED FROM BRIAN JOHNSON, IOM DIRECTOR OF CIVIL AVIATION 01624682357.
A) EGNS B) FROM: 10/04/17 05:45C) TO: 10/04/22 11:00
E) WHEREAS THE ISLE OF MAN (IOM) DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEEMS IT NECESSARY IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO RESTRICT OR PROHIBIT FLYING IN IOM AIRSPACE BY REASON OF THE DANGER TO AVIATION CAUSED BY VOLCANIC ASH IN THE ATMOSPHERE, AN ACFT SHALL NOT FLY OVER THE IOM OR THE TERRITORIAL WATERS ADJACENT TO THE IOM EXCEPT WITH THE
PERMISSION OF AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH ANY INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL UNIT AT IOM (RONALDSWAY) AIRPORT. SFC/UNL THE DEPARTMENT MAKES THESE REGULATIONS UNDER ARTICLE 96 OF THE AIR NAVIGATION ORDER 2005, AS IT HAS EFFECT IN THE IOM AND IS DETAILED IN STAUTORY DOCUMENT NO.256/10. FURTHER INFORMATION CAN BE OBTAINED FROM BRIAN JOHNSON, IOM DIRECTOR OF CIVIL AVIATION 01624682357.
I wonder if Mr Ryanair is thinking of VFR'ing a 737 across to Dublin
I bet the news agencies are glad they have this to report on, the scipt is made for them and the world awaits... but wait a mo, all this with the election so close as well. I hope that Dead Donkey story is ready for May 8th
It's another lovely day, birds-a-singing, sun-a-shining, lets keep things as they are....Why vote for change!
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Out of curiosity, how many crews out there have actually had experience of power loss and blade errosion and are confident that they can assess correctly the risk level that results? I suppose those who have had military time in the desert might be able to drag up a 'once upon a time experience' when the symptoms were so noticeable it couldn't be anything else.
Well clear skies again in the north yet my car [valeted last night] is covered again but only 50% of yesterday's mess. Wonder what the values are for engine repair/blade renewal is versus lost revenue?
Well clear skies again in the north yet my car [valeted last night] is covered again but only 50% of yesterday's mess. Wonder what the values are for engine repair/blade renewal is versus lost revenue?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Research aircraft returns to volcanic ash plume
Where have you heard this before?
Those darned model predictions again!
What do Twiggy and Naomi know about all this anyway?
Ahhh, Perhaps this is why?
Where have you heard this before?
The same team flew out to the plume's expected location on Thursday, but did not find the ash. Although this outcome was negative, this does necessarily mean the ash clouds are not dispersing as the models predict - further investigation is needed.
What do Twiggy and Naomi know about all this anyway?
Ahhh, Perhaps this is why?
The Dornier is normally used for low-altitude remote sensing of the land and atmosphere using instruments such as radar and lidar - the latter is like radar but uses lasers instead of sound waves to build up a picture of distant objects. Atmospheric sampling work like this mission is normally the job of another aircraft, the Facility for Airborne Atmospheric Measurement's (FAAM) BAe-146.
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instruments such as radar and lidar - the latter is like radar but uses lasers instead of sound waves to build up a picture of distant objects.
NATS unveil the new Heathrow 23cm echo locator ......
You just can't fix stupid!!
A friend I just spoke to told me that in Norway, the CAA has banned HANG and PARAGLIDERS from flying as the they said something like "no-fly rules are no-fly rules"
A friend I just spoke to told me that in Norway, the CAA has banned HANG and PARAGLIDERS from flying as the they said something like "no-fly rules are no-fly rules"
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seems to be some confusion on whats fly and no fly??? I understand Airlines and IFR traffic are at risk but it also seems VFR are at risk according to the reports I have read and seen, I know that at our base Turbomeca have sent information re flying in such conditions and what is required re service after an event, it also is worded in such away that it seems any guarantee is invalid if you fly... Hence a lot of similar set ups are likewise not flying... The ash/dust/nasties seem to be a lot lower than IFR, it would most likely be in the levels a lot of VFR operstions work in... just because you cant see it does not mean its there??
I think that most set ups like ours will await clearance from those that know better before we are flying again
I think that most set ups like ours will await clearance from those that know better before we are flying again
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A question was asked if flight in Iceland have been stopped.
Answer is no but there are restrictions of course.
See ISAVIA and ICAA website
Also see Icelandic Met Office website
Live from the eruption: Mila webcam & Vodafone webcam
Answer is no but there are restrictions of course.
See ISAVIA and ICAA website
Also see Icelandic Met Office website
Live from the eruption: Mila webcam & Vodafone webcam
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Heli ice I think the cloud etc is moving away from Iceland which may well be the reason certain flights are operating, likewise the ease of restrictions for northern UK (which were then changed when the cloud moved towards it again)
I think DoubleBogey makes some relevent and interesting points to be honest.
what was the old saying...." there are old pilots and bold pilots, but never old bold pilots"... This thread seems to explain that theory
I think DoubleBogey makes some relevent and interesting points to be honest.
what was the old saying...." there are old pilots and bold pilots, but never old bold pilots"... This thread seems to explain that theory
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volrider
Thats true, the volcano is on the south shore of Iceland and we have strong northerly winds that blow the ash away from us for the time being. The farms just beneath the volcano are getting slapped with thick layers of ash and their farmlands are ruined.
I live some 90km to the west of the eruption and we hope that wind will be favourable to the most of us. In this context it is hard to judge what is best but everyone thinks about their own so what have you?
It is hard to watch the impact this eruption has on Europe and sitting up here in the sunshine, watching the volcano spew its thing over to you is quite surreal. Some are even making sarcastic jokes about this all. Iceland runs great and our airliners can leave the country at will, at least to the west. Some flights have been made to Scotland from Iceland so things are moving a bit.
In here we are preparing for loss of harvest over the next years in case this eruption will last for months or even years. If the mountain Katla, which is only a few miles to the east of Eyjafjallajokull starts erupting, it will make this erupton look like a "campfire". This is a real possibility now because eruptions in Eyjafjallajokull mountain have been known to trigger eruptions in mount Katla. If that happens, we will not be having debate about if it is safe to fly in the UK like we do now, it will most likely not be safe or even clear enough to go VFR.
Thats that... Happy days.
Thats true, the volcano is on the south shore of Iceland and we have strong northerly winds that blow the ash away from us for the time being. The farms just beneath the volcano are getting slapped with thick layers of ash and their farmlands are ruined.
I live some 90km to the west of the eruption and we hope that wind will be favourable to the most of us. In this context it is hard to judge what is best but everyone thinks about their own so what have you?
It is hard to watch the impact this eruption has on Europe and sitting up here in the sunshine, watching the volcano spew its thing over to you is quite surreal. Some are even making sarcastic jokes about this all. Iceland runs great and our airliners can leave the country at will, at least to the west. Some flights have been made to Scotland from Iceland so things are moving a bit.
In here we are preparing for loss of harvest over the next years in case this eruption will last for months or even years. If the mountain Katla, which is only a few miles to the east of Eyjafjallajokull starts erupting, it will make this erupton look like a "campfire". This is a real possibility now because eruptions in Eyjafjallajokull mountain have been known to trigger eruptions in mount Katla. If that happens, we will not be having debate about if it is safe to fly in the UK like we do now, it will most likely not be safe or even clear enough to go VFR.
Thats that... Happy days.