New London Heliport
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Time for a 'Carrier for London'?
A slight diversion from the main threads discussing last weeks incident, but perhaps something that might be more of a top topic if the result of this incident makes TfL (or whoever will make that descision) think about ceasing heli-ops within London as they are now.
I don't suppose there's a chance that, for example, all the businessmen et al that use Battersea or Vanguard could be persuaded to get together and have a business approach look at;
HMS Illustrious (R06)
Given the right placement, not only would a decent approach profile would be possible, there could also be conference facilities, hotel, restaurant, gym, spa etc etc making it quite lucrative.
A whole host of safety measures could be in place, such as a minimum cloud base and all points vis before she opened, comprehensive met & emergency facilities, along with a strict PPR arrangement.
Just something to throw into the forum, as I get the feeling that things are going to change quite a bit.
I don't suppose there's a chance that, for example, all the businessmen et al that use Battersea or Vanguard could be persuaded to get together and have a business approach look at;
HMS Illustrious (R06)
She has taken over the helicopter carrier role while Ocean undergoes a planned refit, due for completion by 2014; Illustrious will then be withdrawn from service
A whole host of safety measures could be in place, such as a minimum cloud base and all points vis before she opened, comprehensive met & emergency facilities, along with a strict PPR arrangement.
Just something to throw into the forum, as I get the feeling that things are going to change quite a bit.
Has already been discussed in the past (regarding Ark Royal and the Olympics):
http://www.pprune.org/6259415-post10.html
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/409...-heliport.html
The idea makes lots of sense to me, on lots of different levels.
Is it going to happen? I very much doubt it.
http://www.pprune.org/6259415-post10.html
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/409...-heliport.html
The idea makes lots of sense to me, on lots of different levels.
Is it going to happen? I very much doubt it.
Sid: It would be a good idea but .. as has been said, it is unlikely to happen.
On the New London Heliport thread that Bravo73 linked, I expressed my disappointment in the lack of initiative which has been so apparent when it comes to discovering contemporary solutions for rotary-wing access to the City of London.
It seems that UK operators lack faith in believing that improved/increased city access could cultivate demand and further prove the efficiency of rotorcraft as a vital medium for priority transportation or, if they do, they are unwilling to act upon it!
A converted carrier has virtually unlimited potential for the employment of its many spaces and could serve as a sorely needed resource for city-bound traffic.
Here are just some of the possibilities:
- A tourist attraction
- Restaurant
- Special events destination
- Exhibitions/galleries
- Office accommodation
etc.
As I say, the possibilities are almost limitless.
Re: businessmen who fly into the city helping out? I think it highly unlikely unless they happen to be a philanthropic billionaire with an especial interest in both aviation and 'nautica'.
You might however (and I emphasise the might) be able to find a developer (not British of course) who would look at it but .. when they are confronted with the quagmire known as London borough councils .. they will end-up wanting to hang themselves.
But its a great idea!
On the New London Heliport thread that Bravo73 linked, I expressed my disappointment in the lack of initiative which has been so apparent when it comes to discovering contemporary solutions for rotary-wing access to the City of London.
It seems that UK operators lack faith in believing that improved/increased city access could cultivate demand and further prove the efficiency of rotorcraft as a vital medium for priority transportation or, if they do, they are unwilling to act upon it!
A converted carrier has virtually unlimited potential for the employment of its many spaces and could serve as a sorely needed resource for city-bound traffic.
Here are just some of the possibilities:
- You already have a flight deck and control tower.
- The vessel can be relocated along various portions of the Thames so that the noise peril can be 'shared' on a calendar basis (or not) but at least the flexibility of this option is there.
- All the vessel would require to interface with the various parts of the city is a small flotilla of water taxis (much as we have in Venice) which could speed passengers to the various wharfs and embankments along the Thames (we are talking about handfuls of minutes to get to shore and .. moving considerably faster than a car straining its way across the city).
- A tourist attraction
- Restaurant
- Special events destination
- Exhibitions/galleries
- Office accommodation
etc.
As I say, the possibilities are almost limitless.
Re: businessmen who fly into the city helping out? I think it highly unlikely unless they happen to be a philanthropic billionaire with an especial interest in both aviation and 'nautica'.
You might however (and I emphasise the might) be able to find a developer (not British of course) who would look at it but .. when they are confronted with the quagmire known as London borough councils .. they will end-up wanting to hang themselves.
But its a great idea!
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Knowing the competent authority as we do, the carrier would have to be sunk, so that it no longer counted as an elevated platform, and the bit sticking up in the middle cut off as it could or may cause wind shear on approach/take off, plus that funny curvy thing at one end flattened.
Then after care full consideration, it most probably turned down if suitable rescue services could not cross Bridges to said landing area in event of a incident.
Then after care full consideration, it most probably turned down if suitable rescue services could not cross Bridges to said landing area in event of a incident.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I know it's not an original idea, but it may be a case of get something in the planning or face nothing at all. The timing of Illustrious being made 'available' and the incident, might make this the best time for any project to be pursued.
In reply to tp, considering all the facilities that would be on board I would have thought that having its own fire section would be the way to go.
In reply to tp, considering all the facilities that would be on board I would have thought that having its own fire section would be the way to go.
Avoid imitations
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Given the right placement, not only would a decent approach profile would be possible, there could also be conference facilities, hotel, restaurant, gym, spa etc etc making it quite lucrative.
BTW, There used to be an alternative landing place, on a barge placed near where HMS Belfast is now, I think it was. I remember going there in a Whirlwind.
That would be good for we pilots, while waiting, but what about the passengers?
As you know in the early 80's there was the three-pad barge at Trigg Lane for a while but near Belfast was Summertime-Reindeer's operation. He had (among other things) the DHL contract flying parcels and letters from his barge to the Holiday Inn at Heathrow mainly using G-BAZN.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I'm sure the resources are here on PPRuNe to put something together.
Lawyers, Businessmen, controllers, met-folk, firefighters, medics, etc etc Oh and a few pilots, who can contribute to making it a viable proposition to Boris and whoever else needs to approve of such a project.
Anyone fancy going on Dragons Den?
Lawyers, Businessmen, controllers, met-folk, firefighters, medics, etc etc Oh and a few pilots, who can contribute to making it a viable proposition to Boris and whoever else needs to approve of such a project.
Anyone fancy going on Dragons Den?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Oh, any idea what RYA course is needed to drive one of these boats?
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Savoia
Do you seriously believe the failing is by the operators?
There hasn't been a helipad in or near the City since the mid 80s. Battersea is the nearest but it's not near the City. There have been various proposals but the problem is overcoming the objections of the very loud anti-noise and anti-helicopter lobbies and persuading the Mayor/Greater London Authority or the City Corporation to agree it makes sense.
H
It seems that UK operators lack faith in believing that improved/increased city access could cultivate demand and further prove the efficiency of rotorcraft as a vital medium for priority transportation or, if they do, they are unwilling to act upon it!
There hasn't been a helipad in or near the City since the mid 80s. Battersea is the nearest but it's not near the City. There have been various proposals but the problem is overcoming the objections of the very loud anti-noise and anti-helicopter lobbies and persuading the Mayor/Greater London Authority or the City Corporation to agree it makes sense.
H
I don't think it could or will ever happen.
No London planning authority is going to open itself up to the level of outcry and complaint that it would receive if it so much as thought about approving a new Heliport facility in London. The Mayor's office would not pursue it because there are no votes to win and many to lose. The Government will not pursue it for the same reason.
Battersea is what we've got and all we're going to get. We just need to make sure we don't lose that!
OH
No London planning authority is going to open itself up to the level of outcry and complaint that it would receive if it so much as thought about approving a new Heliport facility in London. The Mayor's office would not pursue it because there are no votes to win and many to lose. The Government will not pursue it for the same reason.
Battersea is what we've got and all we're going to get. We just need to make sure we don't lose that!
OH
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Ark as a helipad
Just a few months back I was asked to visit the Portsmouth dock where said 'Ark Royal' sat somewhat forlornly. My brief was to determine if the vessel was suitable as a London heli landing pad!! ... (no laughter please.) Standing atop Bill Bedford's famous ski ramp while looking down several hundred yards of open deck, I decided 'yes!' Bigger guys than me determined it couldn't happen for the Olympics so 'Ocean' got the job. BUT ... touring around below, I could see a concert hall, (or pop venue) conference centre, a dozen or so 'top of the range' apartments, posh shops, not to mention an athletics track, two or three clubs of varying nature, obviously a hotel or perhaps one at each end! Trouble was the beastie sits 100 feet above dockside ... quite a climb for visitors!
Regards to all and long live Trigg Lane. Dennis K.
Regards to all and long live Trigg Lane. Dennis K.
Eliporto:
Yes, I do.
For it is known (and you have said so yourself) that this battle lies with the lobbies and planners and which challenge the BHA (or any other association to the best of my knowledge) have capitulated to. Who then will take-up this fight if not the operators/users who, ultimately, are the potential beneficiaries of any increase in access to the city?
On the matter of enhanced/increased city access the helicopter industry in the UK has been on the back foot for many-a-year now and it is my belief that this will eventually harm certain parts of the industry (if it hasn't already).
Moreover, just because this fight with lobbies and planners is formidable, does not equate to a worthless endeavour but, perhaps instead, that operators/users should collaborate and engage in a long-term plan to see rotorcraft increasingly accommodated as part of a vision for a progressive, efficient London.
Quite, and which should strengthen the motivation to take-up this cause.
Regarding Illustrious/The Ark, as much as I would personally love to see them deployed as a floating heliport, my faith does not extend to believing that the lobbies and planners would permit such a vast piece of ironmongery to impede upon the current status quo along the Thameside embankments and I fear that the mobility of these craft (a great flexibility) would only serve to feed the desire of opponents to eventually see the thing towed away.
The answer, I believe, is to be found in a number of smaller (if possible discreet) helipads at strategic locations across London and in this regard a starting point could be that of collaborating with developers in order to promote the incorporation of helipads on new buildings.
Do you seriously believe the failing is by the operators?
For it is known (and you have said so yourself) that this battle lies with the lobbies and planners and which challenge the BHA (or any other association to the best of my knowledge) have capitulated to. Who then will take-up this fight if not the operators/users who, ultimately, are the potential beneficiaries of any increase in access to the city?
On the matter of enhanced/increased city access the helicopter industry in the UK has been on the back foot for many-a-year now and it is my belief that this will eventually harm certain parts of the industry (if it hasn't already).
Moreover, just because this fight with lobbies and planners is formidable, does not equate to a worthless endeavour but, perhaps instead, that operators/users should collaborate and engage in a long-term plan to see rotorcraft increasingly accommodated as part of a vision for a progressive, efficient London.
There hasn't been a helipad in or near the City since the mid 80s. Battersea is the nearest but it's not near the City.
Regarding Illustrious/The Ark, as much as I would personally love to see them deployed as a floating heliport, my faith does not extend to believing that the lobbies and planners would permit such a vast piece of ironmongery to impede upon the current status quo along the Thameside embankments and I fear that the mobility of these craft (a great flexibility) would only serve to feed the desire of opponents to eventually see the thing towed away.
The answer, I believe, is to be found in a number of smaller (if possible discreet) helipads at strategic locations across London and in this regard a starting point could be that of collaborating with developers in order to promote the incorporation of helipads on new buildings.
Tightgit
Savoia, is that a nice planet you're living on? It must be quite a bit different to this one. It is not just lobbyists and planners. The general population of London are indifferent to the plight of a few corporate helicopter operators and amazingly noise averse for a people who inhabit one of the worlds largest cities!
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Hmm .... maybe Sid and Savoia have got a point?
Ark Royal has already been sold for scrap but Lusty is due to be de-commissioned next year after 32 years sterling service.
And why stop at helicopters?
Companies and wealthy individuals could buy some of the Harriers the RAF & Navy no longer need and travel even more quickly.
HMS Illustrious, North Sea, June 2009
Seriously Savoia, whilst it is regrettable that there is no helipad in or near the City (apart from a hospital roof-top helipad for HEMS), you greatly underestimate the size and strength of the opposition.
FL
Ark Royal has already been sold for scrap but Lusty is due to be de-commissioned next year after 32 years sterling service.
And why stop at helicopters?
Companies and wealthy individuals could buy some of the Harriers the RAF & Navy no longer need and travel even more quickly.
HMS Illustrious, North Sea, June 2009
Seriously Savoia, whilst it is regrettable that there is no helipad in or near the City (apart from a hospital roof-top helipad for HEMS), you greatly underestimate the size and strength of the opposition.
FL
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 27th Jan 2013 at 19:18.
The regulatory and technical aspects of building/providing and running a heliport in the city might prove a step too far with an unsupportive government, but you never know, they might see the light one day. However, perhaps the reason is just that the major part of the heli-traffic coming into Battersea comprises high worth individuals who own their own steed, VIP passengers chartering and so on, most who will be happy with the present heliport's location in relation to SW1, W1, SW3 where they will reside whilst in town. Most of the hedge funds are based in Mayfair these days, so perhaps those a bit down the pecking order in the city would gain little from the potential new location(s) as they aren't generally sanctioned to fly by helicopter on the firm's shilling. If there was a move, I'd wager more than a few of the regular clients would create a stink about the schlep across town to get to the 'golden postcodes' where their business/social/private lives are based.
Seriously Savoia, whilst it is regrettable that there is no helipad in or near the City (apart from a hospital roof-top helipad for HEMS), you greatly underestimate the size and strength of the opposition.
What I believe is that the challenge of promoting additional London heliports/pads is worthy of a sustained, coordinated and collaborative effort by users and operators and that resignation to the naysayers does not serve the industry's best interests.
My acknowledgement of just how formidable the challenge is, lies within my statement that a long-term plan/approach is required.
Why not club together and put in an outline planning application to moor Lusty near the city as a tourist and helipad . Wouldn't cost much and would flush out supporters and opposition.