New London Heliport
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Close to the hangar, UK.
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What with the ConDem alliance opposing aviation (particularly in the SE)...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Norman Foster proposal post #20 seems ideal, not too big (hopefully less trouble) and near your city centre.
Why don't UK operators get together to make effort to push for development until solution is found or is there just not that much demand?
Why don't UK operators get together to make effort to push for development until solution is found or is there just not that much demand?
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 430 Likes
on
227 Posts
Good that folk are finding alternative helicopter landing sites, alternatives to Battersea are definitely required.
However, non-AOC aircraft landing there will need a Rule 5(3)(c) permission from the CAA and I suspect they will allow twin engined helis only. Also, as it lies about 4.5 nm east of LHR I can see delays being commonplace; standard separation from inbound fixed wing will be required.
However, non-AOC aircraft landing there will need a Rule 5(3)(c) permission from the CAA and I suspect they will allow twin engined helis only. Also, as it lies about 4.5 nm east of LHR I can see delays being commonplace; standard separation from inbound fixed wing will be required.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 430 Likes
on
227 Posts
Rule 5(3)(c) of the Air Navigation Order is also known as the 1,000 foot rule.
In UK, aircraft are not normally allowed (are prohibited) from being flown over a congested area below 1,000 feet above the nearest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 600 metres.
The London (Heathrow) Control zone is seen as a congested area so to avoid breaking the law, an application has to be made to the CAA for permission to land. It costs £108 for the application. Conditions are always laid down in the permission, usually specifying aircraft performance minima. A recent one I obtained also disallowed me from flying members of the public to or from the site.
In UK, aircraft are not normally allowed (are prohibited) from being flown over a congested area below 1,000 feet above the nearest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 600 metres.
The London (Heathrow) Control zone is seen as a congested area so to avoid breaking the law, an application has to be made to the CAA for permission to land. It costs £108 for the application. Conditions are always laid down in the permission, usually specifying aircraft performance minima. A recent one I obtained also disallowed me from flying members of the public to or from the site.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for explaining this.
Does this mean that this new laning site as the polo club requires a permission from your aviation body for every landing and that you can then be told not to carry passengers?
YBB
Does this mean that this new laning site as the polo club requires a permission from your aviation body for every landing and that you can then be told not to carry passengers?
YBB
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 430 Likes
on
227 Posts
AOC holders can be exempted from the requirement; otherwise yes, it depends what the CAA demand, having looked at the request.
City Access - London Lagging!
.
For those acquainted with the access offereded in countries such as the US, Japan or even here in Italy, the London landing restrictions (a failure of the BHA, CAA and city planners) is as depressing as it is frustrating.
Aside from the loss of service to passengers, the London scenario breeds a lack of efficiency which, through the increasingly-integrated EU, could easily spread to other metropolitan centres across Europe. As originally stated somewhere near the start of this thread, London would do well to become an example of landing facilitation instead of the opposite.
The Ham Polo Club site is a welcome addittion I am sure but, as ShyTorque mentioned, it is some distance from the city centre (further than Battersea) and I therefore can't see how it will be of much help. They would have tried negotiating something with the Hurlingham Club which, if memory serves, (from my days in the City) was not far from Putney Bridge (at least a little closer!).
Thames Map - Richmond's 'Ham Polo Club' not even appearing!
To be sincere, if it is to be of effect, a new city heliport should be situated somewhere between Westminster and Blackfriars Bridge but, you have a bigger problem on your hands in the UK than space and planning permission - apathy!
You can't tell me that if the BHA assembled a capable team backed by the active support of interested operators, and began a comprehensive crusade to address this issue and which involved (if necessary) providing demonstrations of the helicopter's usefulness along with convincing presentations of the multiple benefits of improved helicopter access - that they would achieve nothing! Education, political marketing and perseverence can win through.
What some people fail to see (BHA/CAA) is that by giving up on London's helicopter access the industry is actually striking itself in the tail because it will become known by operators and passengers alike that city access is limited and the latter will merely seek alternative solutions.
The fact of the matter is that better city access for helicopters could boost operator business, contribute to the city's economy and offer important access/egress during emergency scenarios.
While Police and Ambulance aircraft have gone a long way to shed the image of helicopters as the preserve of high net worth individuals, there remains a perception at the grass roots level, along with an envy at official levels, which still sees helicopters in this way and the BHA (and others) need to address this.
Take city and CAA officials and uninitiated company executives on demonstration flights, make presentations to local residents groups (invite them to operator bases and give them a day out) and remind them that a helicopter landing facility near their home = improved emergency response times and a potential 'way out' in a disaster situation.
If BHA and others were to latch onto this task with your 'bulldog' determination they could come through because what I know in this life is that if you are determined enough .. anything is possible.
Maybe UK operators don't want the additional business and they are happy to see things stagnate the way they are. What if improved access really could boost business! And it could.
Finally - The answer may not come in the form of a cleared plot along the banks of the Thames, in fact, the most enterprising solution (in my view) would be a slightly longer term (and perhaps more ambitious) appraoch whereby the battle begins with gaining the active backing of the City of London, CAA and others. With their support, policy should be developed for new buildings encouraging sufficiently sized landing pads (presumably space for two aircraft) in as many different locations as possible. Older buildings, to which realistic modifications could be made, should be offered a development grant to undertake construction for an approved landing pad. Such a grant could be justified by government under 'security' measures.
With the CAA's cooperation these pads should be allowed to operate safely (but without cumbersome restrictions). Building owners can be offered a 'helipad operating manual' (perhaps prepared by the CAA/BHA) offering help and advice and demonstrating how such a facility could contribute towards building revenues while offering added safety.
Local workers/residents could draw comfort from knowing that in an emergency situation there is a nearby entry and departure point for prospective assistance and lastly, passengers would finally be offered a selection of sights across the city from which to chose from thereby enhancing helicopter service efficiency and doubtless boosting business.
Dream? Perhaps. But, it could be implemented by the right people. A few interested operators could collaborate to throw in a handful of money for the BHA to recruit to full time time to make this happen - if they wanted!
S.
For those acquainted with the access offereded in countries such as the US, Japan or even here in Italy, the London landing restrictions (a failure of the BHA, CAA and city planners) is as depressing as it is frustrating.
Aside from the loss of service to passengers, the London scenario breeds a lack of efficiency which, through the increasingly-integrated EU, could easily spread to other metropolitan centres across Europe. As originally stated somewhere near the start of this thread, London would do well to become an example of landing facilitation instead of the opposite.
The Ham Polo Club site is a welcome addittion I am sure but, as ShyTorque mentioned, it is some distance from the city centre (further than Battersea) and I therefore can't see how it will be of much help. They would have tried negotiating something with the Hurlingham Club which, if memory serves, (from my days in the City) was not far from Putney Bridge (at least a little closer!).
Thames Map - Richmond's 'Ham Polo Club' not even appearing!
To be sincere, if it is to be of effect, a new city heliport should be situated somewhere between Westminster and Blackfriars Bridge but, you have a bigger problem on your hands in the UK than space and planning permission - apathy!
You can't tell me that if the BHA assembled a capable team backed by the active support of interested operators, and began a comprehensive crusade to address this issue and which involved (if necessary) providing demonstrations of the helicopter's usefulness along with convincing presentations of the multiple benefits of improved helicopter access - that they would achieve nothing! Education, political marketing and perseverence can win through.
What some people fail to see (BHA/CAA) is that by giving up on London's helicopter access the industry is actually striking itself in the tail because it will become known by operators and passengers alike that city access is limited and the latter will merely seek alternative solutions.
The fact of the matter is that better city access for helicopters could boost operator business, contribute to the city's economy and offer important access/egress during emergency scenarios.
While Police and Ambulance aircraft have gone a long way to shed the image of helicopters as the preserve of high net worth individuals, there remains a perception at the grass roots level, along with an envy at official levels, which still sees helicopters in this way and the BHA (and others) need to address this.
Take city and CAA officials and uninitiated company executives on demonstration flights, make presentations to local residents groups (invite them to operator bases and give them a day out) and remind them that a helicopter landing facility near their home = improved emergency response times and a potential 'way out' in a disaster situation.
If BHA and others were to latch onto this task with your 'bulldog' determination they could come through because what I know in this life is that if you are determined enough .. anything is possible.
Maybe UK operators don't want the additional business and they are happy to see things stagnate the way they are. What if improved access really could boost business! And it could.
Finally - The answer may not come in the form of a cleared plot along the banks of the Thames, in fact, the most enterprising solution (in my view) would be a slightly longer term (and perhaps more ambitious) appraoch whereby the battle begins with gaining the active backing of the City of London, CAA and others. With their support, policy should be developed for new buildings encouraging sufficiently sized landing pads (presumably space for two aircraft) in as many different locations as possible. Older buildings, to which realistic modifications could be made, should be offered a development grant to undertake construction for an approved landing pad. Such a grant could be justified by government under 'security' measures.
With the CAA's cooperation these pads should be allowed to operate safely (but without cumbersome restrictions). Building owners can be offered a 'helipad operating manual' (perhaps prepared by the CAA/BHA) offering help and advice and demonstrating how such a facility could contribute towards building revenues while offering added safety.
Local workers/residents could draw comfort from knowing that in an emergency situation there is a nearby entry and departure point for prospective assistance and lastly, passengers would finally be offered a selection of sights across the city from which to chose from thereby enhancing helicopter service efficiency and doubtless boosting business.
Dream? Perhaps. But, it could be implemented by the right people. A few interested operators could collaborate to throw in a handful of money for the BHA to recruit to full time time to make this happen - if they wanted!
S.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 430 Likes
on
227 Posts
Sad to note that even Battersea Heliport doesn't appear on that map, let alone Ham!
The notion that helicopters are the preserve of the rich is perpetuated by the lack of "public" facilities for helicopters, keeping the prices sky high (no pun intended).
The notion that helicopters are the preserve of the rich is perpetuated by the lack of "public" facilities for helicopters, keeping the prices sky high (no pun intended).
As an industry, we have to be aware of the noise problems. The operation of certain larger types of helicopter at Battersea inevitably causes most of the problems in the local community - and the communities under the heli routes.
Battersea has its own inherent regulatory problems which require a particular performance profile. That profile adds to noise on take off and landing. And the "residentualising" of areas around the heliport (which were previously industrial) has added to the problems. Much as I might enjoy the smell of burnt A1 - I can assure you that the residents of apartments near the heliport are sick of it and the noise the burners make!
So, if there is to be a future of helicopter landings in London, it will have to be quieter, less intrusive and more community-friendly. Operators, owners, industry body and regulator need to work as one with one aim.
Battersea has its own inherent regulatory problems which require a particular performance profile. That profile adds to noise on take off and landing. And the "residentualising" of areas around the heliport (which were previously industrial) has added to the problems. Much as I might enjoy the smell of burnt A1 - I can assure you that the residents of apartments near the heliport are sick of it and the noise the burners make!
So, if there is to be a future of helicopter landings in London, it will have to be quieter, less intrusive and more community-friendly. Operators, owners, industry body and regulator need to work as one with one aim.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 430 Likes
on
227 Posts
Jim,
I fly as neighbourly as possible but I'm afraid I have only a little sympathy with the local resident noise complainers. They obviously weren't sharp enough to realise that a heliport has helicopters. Why would anyone buy an apartment in the adjacent area if they don't like the noise? Especially those who bought apartments from the same company that owned the heliport at the time.
When I first flew into the heliport in the 1970s it was owned by Westland and the surrounding area was industrial.
I fly as neighbourly as possible but I'm afraid I have only a little sympathy with the local resident noise complainers. They obviously weren't sharp enough to realise that a heliport has helicopters. Why would anyone buy an apartment in the adjacent area if they don't like the noise? Especially those who bought apartments from the same company that owned the heliport at the time.
When I first flew into the heliport in the 1970s it was owned by Westland and the surrounding area was industrial.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Age: 52
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a sad state that the finance capital of Europe has got such embarrassing facilities.
On a recent trip to NY, I counted:
4 Heliports on Manhattan alone. Many more in the greater vicinity.
Not only that - there's 7, yes SEVEN, seaplane bases/landings in greater NY city. You can even plop down on the Hudson and taxi up to the Wall St heli/seaport and let people off (as long as you have a 3-blade prop for noise abatement). Imagine trying to land a seaplane on the Thames and taxiing up the river - you'd be in jail before you'd dock, probably.
On a recent trip to NY, I counted:
4 Heliports on Manhattan alone. Many more in the greater vicinity.
Not only that - there's 7, yes SEVEN, seaplane bases/landings in greater NY city. You can even plop down on the Hudson and taxi up to the Wall St heli/seaport and let people off (as long as you have a 3-blade prop for noise abatement). Imagine trying to land a seaplane on the Thames and taxiing up the river - you'd be in jail before you'd dock, probably.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cirencester
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seaplane landing in London
There is or was an approved area for seaplane landings in the Greenwich area. Perhaps this should be investigated. I wonder if landing a helicopter on a barge in a designated seaplane landing area requires planning permission! would it still count as a landing on water?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sussex
Age: 75
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
helispeediii
sorry guys but if we cant get a heliport for the olimpics, it aint going to happen they could not get one at canary wharf when that was built 20= years ago,sad aint it, was a time i ve done it many time in a single going east on h4 asked thames if i could do a 360 round canary wharf ,only one tower then !nearly always got the nod even when lucy was there ,
bet you get the no now , we need a heliport in central london, between westminster and the city, mind you there quite a handy one at the end of the mall the big house with the 76 in the garden wonder if they got planning, keep flying helispeediii
bet you get the no now , we need a heliport in central london, between westminster and the city, mind you there quite a handy one at the end of the mall the big house with the 76 in the garden wonder if they got planning, keep flying helispeediii
Re the Olympics, earlier this year the Department for Transport commissioned a study into helicopter usage in and around London over the summer period in 2012. The study was carried out by Atkins plc (an engineering company and consultancy) who had previously carried out a study for DfT into airport capacity in the South East for the Olympics. During the helicopter study, for which Atkins co-opted a helicopter consultant, industry was widely consulted. The report, which has not yet been published, is expected to recommend that government decisions (by Home Office, Foreign Office and MoD) as to the size and scope of any exclusion zones and restricted airspace are made as soon as possible, in order to allow helicopter companies and HLS operators to start planning for an expected customer demand.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Goodwood, Sussex, UK
Age: 70
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BIGGIN HILL TO LAUNCH OLYMPIC HELICOPTER SERVICE
Wednesday 24 November 2010
Trevor Sturgess
Award-winning Biggin Hill is to launch an Olympic helicopter service between the business airport and Ebbsfleet International Station in 2012.
Passengers will transfer to a helicopter for a short flight to the station where they will board the high-speed rail shuttle to Stratford International, close to Olympic Park.
The estimated journey time between touchdown at Biggin Hill and arrival at the stadium could be as short as 40 minutes.
Details are being hammered out by airport chiefs and High Speed One. An airport spokesman confirmed that a helipad site had been earmarked close to Ebbsfleet International station. Sponsors, guests and a number of competitors are expected to arrive in the country at Biggin Hill.
Meanwhile, the Olympic strategy was crucial in Biggin Hill being named Britain's Best Business Aviation Airport by the Airport Operators Association (AOA).
Guy Lachlan, CEO of the British Business and General Aviation Association which judged the category, said the judges were impressed by the airport's achievement in attracting new businesses.
"Also impressive over the past year has been the leadership and determination shown by airport management in planning and preparing for the 2012 London Olympics," he said.
New helicopter service to launch
Passion Flying Hobby Science Sponsor Work
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Belgium
Age: 68
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Transfert time 40 minutes
Earl,
40' Is that good news ??
The limo's from Bigging Hill -driving through the nice private roads- can do it in 50' to Belgravia if not too much trafic.
In Paris it takes you 10', you can even take the sub at the Heliport...
m2c
d3
40' Is that good news ??
The limo's from Bigging Hill -driving through the nice private roads- can do it in 50' to Belgravia if not too much trafic.
In Paris it takes you 10', you can even take the sub at the Heliport...
m2c
d3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Age: 52
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is or was an approved area for seaplane landings in the Greenwich area. Perhaps this should be investigated. I wonder if landing a helicopter on a barge in a designated seaplane landing area requires planning permission! would it still count as a landing on water?
But I doubt London CTR would allow the approach. And even if they did, there's an 8kts speed limit on the Thames, I think. One could perhaps land a seaplane more to the east on the river and speed taxi into suitable mooring, but I'm sure there's some law against that too.
They love laws.