TV News Helicopter Crash in Brazil with Video
I hate absolutes and etched in stone procedures as they may not fit all cases always.
If the aircraft is controllable and is holding together.....one does have time to think things through before launching off down that preset notion.
If I am over really ugly terrain, or at night, perhaps over water that could chill a miser's heart....and...operative word is "and" I have control of the aircraft to the degree I can aviate, navigate, and perhaps communicate.....why not go for a better option than extant at the time and place of the tail rotor failing.
Being of the Vietnam War Era US Army helicopter group....perhaps I do not see Tail Rotor failures in the same light as some of you. We had a lot of exposure to those and learned much from the guys that were successful in coping with them. That knowledge has been passed along and when combined with a hand throttle control of the engines makes for a way of coping with some failures. With the advent of larger aircraft and the shift to "levers" and other means of controlling engines....the concept does not transfer straight across.
There is a world of difference between a Loss of Tail Rotor and Components than mere control problems. Techniques for the two are much different as a result.
For a Loss of Tail Rotor drive, loss of Tail Rotor and/or components....I think the first reaction is to lower the collective...which usually is never a bad thing to do in a helicopter that has decided to take a walk on the wild side. Recognizing the problem should be fairly straight forward if half your feet are stuck out as far as it will go and there is no response to that input. If moving the pedals gets no response....then one can surmise it isn't working or isn't there. If the nose of the aircraft got heavy at the same time....then it probably is due to the Tail Rotor and some associated bits have departed for other places.
Helicopters roll along with a tuck when large amounts of slide slip are caused by the out of trim situation....that is generally the main danger in forward flight at about cruise speeds. Minimizing the side slip will assist in controlling that. Knowing how your aircraft responds to collective movement ahead of time helps in determining what to do. I see minimum power to maintain height as being the optimum power setting and then adjust airspeed to find the minimum slide slip angle.
Depending upon the collective setting.....flight may be possible....if not then it is time for an autorotation.
If the aircraft is spinning or about to.... away from the power pedal....(trying to make this ambidextrous for the wrong way turning machines)...reducing collective is the only immediate answer perhaps followed by engine(s) shutdown...and it should probably all the way to the bottom and fairly quicktime. The height of the aircraft above the ground will play a role in deciding just how the collective/throttle(s) should be reduced or shut off.
My rule is simple.... In general....too much anti-torque...equals an up day.
Too little anti-torque....means a down day.
You can find ways to reduce Tail Rotor output.....but you cannot create any that isn't there.
If you read up on the Bell 412 in the Gulf of Mexico that had a Loss of Tail Rotor at night....you will quickly realize it was a catastophic event with an immediate loss of control of the aircraft. I will try to find the report and some other information on that and share it. The pilots did a great job getting the aircraft down. If my memory serves me right....the Captain had survived being shot down by a SAM-7 Heat Seeking missile in Vietnam. The Cobra he was flying lost the entire tail boom and spun like a top all the way down but both pilots survived.
All this is just one man's opinion.
If the aircraft is controllable and is holding together.....one does have time to think things through before launching off down that preset notion.
If I am over really ugly terrain, or at night, perhaps over water that could chill a miser's heart....and...operative word is "and" I have control of the aircraft to the degree I can aviate, navigate, and perhaps communicate.....why not go for a better option than extant at the time and place of the tail rotor failing.
Being of the Vietnam War Era US Army helicopter group....perhaps I do not see Tail Rotor failures in the same light as some of you. We had a lot of exposure to those and learned much from the guys that were successful in coping with them. That knowledge has been passed along and when combined with a hand throttle control of the engines makes for a way of coping with some failures. With the advent of larger aircraft and the shift to "levers" and other means of controlling engines....the concept does not transfer straight across.
There is a world of difference between a Loss of Tail Rotor and Components than mere control problems. Techniques for the two are much different as a result.
For a Loss of Tail Rotor drive, loss of Tail Rotor and/or components....I think the first reaction is to lower the collective...which usually is never a bad thing to do in a helicopter that has decided to take a walk on the wild side. Recognizing the problem should be fairly straight forward if half your feet are stuck out as far as it will go and there is no response to that input. If moving the pedals gets no response....then one can surmise it isn't working or isn't there. If the nose of the aircraft got heavy at the same time....then it probably is due to the Tail Rotor and some associated bits have departed for other places.
Helicopters roll along with a tuck when large amounts of slide slip are caused by the out of trim situation....that is generally the main danger in forward flight at about cruise speeds. Minimizing the side slip will assist in controlling that. Knowing how your aircraft responds to collective movement ahead of time helps in determining what to do. I see minimum power to maintain height as being the optimum power setting and then adjust airspeed to find the minimum slide slip angle.
Depending upon the collective setting.....flight may be possible....if not then it is time for an autorotation.
If the aircraft is spinning or about to.... away from the power pedal....(trying to make this ambidextrous for the wrong way turning machines)...reducing collective is the only immediate answer perhaps followed by engine(s) shutdown...and it should probably all the way to the bottom and fairly quicktime. The height of the aircraft above the ground will play a role in deciding just how the collective/throttle(s) should be reduced or shut off.
My rule is simple.... In general....too much anti-torque...equals an up day.
Too little anti-torque....means a down day.
You can find ways to reduce Tail Rotor output.....but you cannot create any that isn't there.
If you read up on the Bell 412 in the Gulf of Mexico that had a Loss of Tail Rotor at night....you will quickly realize it was a catastophic event with an immediate loss of control of the aircraft. I will try to find the report and some other information on that and share it. The pilots did a great job getting the aircraft down. If my memory serves me right....the Captain had survived being shot down by a SAM-7 Heat Seeking missile in Vietnam. The Cobra he was flying lost the entire tail boom and spun like a top all the way down but both pilots survived.
All this is just one man's opinion.
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More Tail Rotor
Hi, The video showing the 355 'arriving' at Liverpool Jan 2003, posted by Mighty Gem is down to me. As with a previous post, Gordy, I'll briefly run through what I did so that it gives others another a possible option should they end up in that position.
Police Ops, Pilot, 2 Police Observers and radio engineer. I had been flying for about 55 minutes when the aircraft developed a odd vibration, which was quite quickly followed by a large bang, which was the engine cowling coming off (almost certainly down to me
) and striking the tail rotor it transpired. I immediately reduced power and reduced speed, there were no obvious signs of problem looking at the engine instruments, but the yaw pedals were very light and gave no control. I increased power and levelled the aircraft and settled for a speed of about 80/85 knots (I think. long time ago, but the front seat observer on the day, who still flies with me, agrees), with the nose off a little to the left. After the Mayday, I elected to go back to Liverpool airport which was only 3 nm away. I elected not to attempt a formal engine off landing, as it was a couple of years since I'd done one and I never done one in a Squirrel. (previous job was teaching at Army Air Corps Centre for three years, Gazelle and Lynx, so my EOL's weren't that bad). I suspected a drive shaft failure, so I discussed with the Police Officers what I intended to do, and they were happy with the plan. The fly by of the Tower confirmed that the tail rotor was not turning. So I shut down number 2 engine and briefed the front seat Observer to close down the other engine on my command. He was briefed to pull the roof throttle straight back, and don't mess about. We positioned on long finals to 27 at Liverpool with a shallow approach, intially aimed at the grass to the north of the runway,only a light wind unfortunately. ( Droopy, the full brief on short finals was " Sorry boys, this is gonna hurt") When the aircraft reached about 40/50 feet and 30-ish knots, the nose started to yaw left quickly. I said "now", the engine was snapped shut and the yaw stopped. The yaw was probably only 30 degrees to the left but left us facing the runway. I then basicially carried out a poor engine off landing to the runway (you've seen the video). Would I do it differently now, the basics, no. Hold the speed on a bit longer and a much lower, but overall the same. I had had the luxury of playing with tail rotor malfunctions/ failures in the Lynx simulator in my present job, so it gave me a few other ideas to consider rather than follow the book.
Not every 'event is the same, so the flight manual can only give guidance, the rest is what we are paid for. Making the final decision.. unfortunately it doesn't always turn out OK. It was was rathering chilling to watch the Sao Paulo video thinking that that was a possible outcome of my flight some twenty years ago.
My thoughts are with the pilots family.
Police Ops, Pilot, 2 Police Observers and radio engineer. I had been flying for about 55 minutes when the aircraft developed a odd vibration, which was quite quickly followed by a large bang, which was the engine cowling coming off (almost certainly down to me
) and striking the tail rotor it transpired. I immediately reduced power and reduced speed, there were no obvious signs of problem looking at the engine instruments, but the yaw pedals were very light and gave no control. I increased power and levelled the aircraft and settled for a speed of about 80/85 knots (I think. long time ago, but the front seat observer on the day, who still flies with me, agrees), with the nose off a little to the left. After the Mayday, I elected to go back to Liverpool airport which was only 3 nm away. I elected not to attempt a formal engine off landing, as it was a couple of years since I'd done one and I never done one in a Squirrel. (previous job was teaching at Army Air Corps Centre for three years, Gazelle and Lynx, so my EOL's weren't that bad). I suspected a drive shaft failure, so I discussed with the Police Officers what I intended to do, and they were happy with the plan. The fly by of the Tower confirmed that the tail rotor was not turning. So I shut down number 2 engine and briefed the front seat Observer to close down the other engine on my command. He was briefed to pull the roof throttle straight back, and don't mess about. We positioned on long finals to 27 at Liverpool with a shallow approach, intially aimed at the grass to the north of the runway,only a light wind unfortunately. ( Droopy, the full brief on short finals was " Sorry boys, this is gonna hurt") When the aircraft reached about 40/50 feet and 30-ish knots, the nose started to yaw left quickly. I said "now", the engine was snapped shut and the yaw stopped. The yaw was probably only 30 degrees to the left but left us facing the runway. I then basicially carried out a poor engine off landing to the runway (you've seen the video). Would I do it differently now, the basics, no. Hold the speed on a bit longer and a much lower, but overall the same. I had had the luxury of playing with tail rotor malfunctions/ failures in the Lynx simulator in my present job, so it gave me a few other ideas to consider rather than follow the book. Not every 'event is the same, so the flight manual can only give guidance, the rest is what we are paid for. Making the final decision.. unfortunately it doesn't always turn out OK. It was was rathering chilling to watch the Sao Paulo video thinking that that was a possible outcome of my flight some twenty years ago.
My thoughts are with the pilots family.
Last edited by Mr_G_Box; 16th Feb 2010 at 17:23. Reason: Spelling
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Just finished reading this thread and more concerned now than ever before about tail rotor failures!
Some very good information and comments throughout the thread especially from FH100 Pilot, Sir Niall Dementia, SASless, topendtorque and others.
The personal experiences of Gordy and Mr G Box were also very informative.
Most of the video links for the first page are no longer working so here is one that still works,
Just two questions really -
1. Are the Squirrel helicopters more likely to get a tail rotor failure than other types as one person was suggesting?
2. Are private and professional pilots taught the different types of tail rotor failure like the stuck pedal, loss of gearbox, driveshaft failure - on a yearly basis?
Some very good information and comments throughout the thread especially from FH100 Pilot, Sir Niall Dementia, SASless, topendtorque and others.
The personal experiences of Gordy and Mr G Box were also very informative.
Most of the video links for the first page are no longer working so here is one that still works,
Just two questions really -
1. Are the Squirrel helicopters more likely to get a tail rotor failure than other types as one person was suggesting?
2. Are private and professional pilots taught the different types of tail rotor failure like the stuck pedal, loss of gearbox, driveshaft failure - on a yearly basis?
