Agusta AW139
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 642
Likes: 2
From: daworld
No. That is a Pratt SB and it is REALLY old. 2005 to be exact. Latest rev is 2007. Deals with the EEC programming. If your ground school is teaching Pre-SB41020, then their material is 13 years out of date.
It says it is Optional, but you can't get the old style EEC anymore and haven't been able to for many years. Any engine after S/N KB-0121 has it done already. So two engines per ship, 121 engines. At the most that would be the first 61 AW139's built that are affected. After that it is done at manufacture.
It says it is Optional, but you can't get the old style EEC anymore and haven't been able to for many years. Any engine after S/N KB-0121 has it done already. So two engines per ship, 121 engines. At the most that would be the first 61 AW139's built that are affected. After that it is done at manufacture.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Cali
ECS offshore
Hello, greetings to all, just joined. Flying offshore for Helistar Colombia. Just wondering about the ECS operation in offshore, Sup 12. Understand that it should be off so it won't draw power, but why does the before landing procedure states that you have to select Man Heat and hold until ITT increases? Appreciate any comments
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 253
Likes: 8
From: the land of redemption
Sure you're reading the correct supplement?
AW139 RFM, rev. 22, Sup. 12 CAT A, offshore helideck landing:
6. HEATER (if used) — Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL - Select HTR switch to OFF, note ITT decrease and confirm HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
ECS ENVIRO (if used) — Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL - Select ECS CONTROL switch to OFF and, if HEATER ON advisory illuminated, note ITT decrease and confirm HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
Hope this helps.
AW139 RFM, rev. 22, Sup. 12 CAT A, offshore helideck landing:
6. HEATER (if used) — Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL - Select HTR switch to OFF, note ITT decrease and confirm HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
ECS ENVIRO (if used) — Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL - Select ECS CONTROL switch to OFF and, if HEATER ON advisory illuminated, note ITT decrease and confirm HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
Hope this helps.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Cali
Thanks, here is what Sup. 12 Part E Offshore helideck takeoff says:
ECS enviro (if fitted)
Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL. Select ECS CONTROL switch to MAN HEAT and hold MAN HEAT switch to increase until ITT increase noted on both
engines, and HEATER ON advisory illuminates. Select ECS CONTROL switch to OFF, note ITT decrease, on both engines, and HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
RFM rev. 22 but the revision for this specific page is no. 10 according to the index.
ECS enviro (if fitted)
Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL. Select ECS CONTROL switch to MAN HEAT and hold MAN HEAT switch to increase until ITT increase noted on both
engines, and HEATER ON advisory illuminates. Select ECS CONTROL switch to OFF, note ITT decrease, on both engines, and HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
RFM rev. 22 but the revision for this specific page is no. 10 according to the index.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Yes the procedure for take-off is subtly different from that for the landing in 12-I.
Perhaps it assumes worst case that the aircraft has been shut down and restarted on the helideck and is a more thorough check that the SOVs are opening and closing correctly.
Perhaps it assumes worst case that the aircraft has been shut down and restarted on the helideck and is a more thorough check that the SOVs are opening and closing correctly.
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Hello all,
Does anybody know the specific criteria to trigger the OEI caption on the PI?
Unfortunately I don't have enough posts to add an image, but I am referring to the yellow vertical "OEI" displayed alongside the PI bar, on the inoperative engine's side.
I've not been able to find a definitive answer to this.
Thanks in advance
Does anybody know the specific criteria to trigger the OEI caption on the PI?
Unfortunately I don't have enough posts to add an image, but I am referring to the yellow vertical "OEI" displayed alongside the PI bar, on the inoperative engine's side.
I've not been able to find a definitive answer to this.
Thanks in advance
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
Likes: 77
From: USA
believe it's decaying NG, I can't remember the trigger value. ( digging through FSI TM, states NG <34.3% or rate of change outside predetermined limits will light ENG OUT )
Last edited by Sir Korsky; 14th July 2018 at 01:53.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Below Escape Velocity
Page 3-174 (or thereabouts) of the RFM says nothing specifically about numerical values to trigger. What it does say is:
ENGINE STATE INDICATION ON PFD AND MFD
OEI
on side of PI, TQ
ITT and NG indicators
of failed engine
Associated engine failed
- Fly aircraft in accordance with
OEI operational techniques
OEI
on side of PI, TQ
ITT and NG indicators
of failed engine
Associated engine failed
- Fly aircraft in accordance with
OEI operational techniques
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Earth
SUPPLEMENT 90
WEIGHT EXTENSION 7000 KG
[...]
GENERAL INFORMATION
This Supplement details the changes to the Basic RFM to operate the aircraft with an increased Gross Weight up to 7000 kg. This information is valid for all weights in excess of the RFM Supplement 50 weight limit of 6800 kg.
SECTION 1 - LIMITATIONS
GENERAL
For Limitations not included in this Supplement refer to Basic RFM or applicable Supplements.
If the aircraft weight, at any time, exceeds 6800 kg the entire flight duration and all Take-Offs / Landings must be recorded as flight operations above 6800 kg in the helicopter log-book.
WEIGHT EXTENSION 7000 KG
[...]
GENERAL INFORMATION
This Supplement details the changes to the Basic RFM to operate the aircraft with an increased Gross Weight up to 7000 kg. This information is valid for all weights in excess of the RFM Supplement 50 weight limit of 6800 kg.
SECTION 1 - LIMITATIONS
GENERAL
For Limitations not included in this Supplement refer to Basic RFM or applicable Supplements.
If the aircraft weight, at any time, exceeds 6800 kg the entire flight duration and all Take-Offs / Landings must be recorded as flight operations above 6800 kg in the helicopter log-book.
SUPPLEMENT 50
INCREASED GROSS WEIGHT 6800 KG
[...]
SECTION 1 - LIMITATIONS
GENERAL
[...]
If the aircraft weight, at any time, exceeds 6400 kg the entire flight duration and all Take-Offs / Landings must be recorded as flight operations above 6400 kg in the helicopter log-book.
INCREASED GROSS WEIGHT 6800 KG
[...]
SECTION 1 - LIMITATIONS
GENERAL
[...]
If the aircraft weight, at any time, exceeds 6400 kg the entire flight duration and all Take-Offs / Landings must be recorded as flight operations above 6400 kg in the helicopter log-book.
Or to rephrase, is Supplement 50 an "applicable Supplement" to a Supplement 90 aircraft?
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: tomorrowland
AW 139 RFM Section 3
Page 3-11
CAS Caption Voice Warning Audio Tone Failure/System State
1(2) ENG OUT ENGINE 1(2) OUT Tone Engine NG below 34.3% or NG rate of change outside predetermined limits.
Page 3-68
TABLE OF PFD AND MFD MESSAGES
‘OEI’ on side of PI, TQ, ITT, NG indications Associated engine failed
Page 3-11
CAS Caption Voice Warning Audio Tone Failure/System State
1(2) ENG OUT ENGINE 1(2) OUT Tone Engine NG below 34.3% or NG rate of change outside predetermined limits.
Page 3-68
TABLE OF PFD AND MFD MESSAGES
‘OEI’ on side of PI, TQ, ITT, NG indications Associated engine failed
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
Likes: 77
From: USA
I have a question concerning aircraft equipped with the 7000kg weight extension. Is it necessary to record flight operations above 6800kg (Supp 90) and above 6400kg (Supp 50), or only above 6800kg?
Or to rephrase, is Supplement 50 an "applicable Supplement" to a Supplement 90 aircraft?
Or to rephrase, is Supplement 50 an "applicable Supplement" to a Supplement 90 aircraft?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 326
Likes: 2
From: Florida/Sandbox/UK
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Yes the procedure for take-off is subtly different from that for the landing in 12-I.
Perhaps it assumes worst case that the aircraft has been shut down and restarted on the helideck and is a more thorough check that the SOVs are opening and closing correctly.
Perhaps it assumes worst case that the aircraft has been shut down and restarted on the helideck and is a more thorough check that the SOVs are opening and closing correctly.
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Wasn't my flight but yes company had a door open in flight, not sure of speed but it wasn't pretty when I believe the door opened and came off the bottom rails, thank goodness for floats on wheel sponsons to stop the door from flapping all the way up and coming off going through the tail rotor ( excuse the dramatics but it could have been ugly) turns out (my opinion so don't use it against me) the pin in the door had broken, I believe was due to being set a little too tight and with use eventually weakened and bent and broke the pin ( 8mm or 10mm bolt so not small) this was on a low time aircraft. R1,000,000 later door replaced. Thoughts if you get a door unlock light but seems to be closed, remove passengers, close door, lock it with a seatbelt from the front row and fly home as slow as your fuel supply will allow. Or put a crew man holding the door. Remove door open covering and inspect for bent rods.
My thoughts only - use it don't use it ;-)
My thoughts only - use it don't use it ;-)
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Cali
ECS offshore
That is exactly right mate AFAIK. The only way to be sure the air bleed for the heater is closed is to look for the ITT drop when you switch the heater off. That may mean switching it on then switching it straight back off. Obviously, it is difficult to miss the heater being on under normal circumstances, however, doors open, lots of air/noise, you could miss it. I have actually had a couple of heaters stuck on (after a service!!!!) here in the sandbox. Hard to miss here due to the extreme whining noise from the rear crew.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Cali
ECS offshore
Thanks, here is what Sup. 12 Part E Offshore helideck takeoff says:
ECS enviro (if fitted)
Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL. Select ECS CONTROL switch to MAN HEAT and hold MAN HEAT switch to increase until ITT increase noted on both
engines, and HEATER ON advisory illuminates. Select ECS CONTROL switch to OFF, note ITT decrease, on both engines, and HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
RFM rev. 22 but the revision for this specific page is no. 10 according to the index.
ECS enviro (if fitted)
Confirm SOV 1 & 2 switches selected to NORMAL. Select ECS CONTROL switch to MAN HEAT and hold MAN HEAT switch to increase until ITT increase noted on both
engines, and HEATER ON advisory illuminates. Select ECS CONTROL switch to OFF, note ITT decrease, on both engines, and HEATER ON advisory extinguished.
RFM rev. 22 but the revision for this specific page is no. 10 according to the index.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 326
Likes: 2
From: Florida/Sandbox/UK
Correct Manriman, in point number 4 it describes the technique for both types of heater and you follow the technique for whichever heater you have installed. You are basically carrying out the same check, however, with the Enviro system (it has an automatic setting which opens the air bleed when required), you must check the bleed in manual mode, this is why the check is slightly different.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.