Agusta AW139
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AW 139 Operators Club
To all you guys around the globe I would like to request you to use this new thread to post your views, opinions, experiences which you may like to share about this aircraft. The knowledge we share can be of immense help to all of us who fly and maintain the AW 139. Looking forward to your valuable contribution.
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139 Reliability
Great helicopter, no trips delayed or cancelled due to maintenance issues and good reliability since it left the factory 16 months ago. My pilots are happy with the machine.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
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Cripes you've been lucky ....
Wot about .....
The cracks in the exhaust system .....
Excessive wear on Main gear tyres (last less than 150 hrs)....
Poor main battery performance ....
Air Conditioner system problems .....
Smokey engines on shutdowns .......
Etc ...
Good idea to share info though .......
Cheers
Wot about .....
The cracks in the exhaust system .....
Excessive wear on Main gear tyres (last less than 150 hrs)....
Poor main battery performance ....
Air Conditioner system problems .....
Smokey engines on shutdowns .......
Etc ...
Good idea to share info though .......
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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I think this helicopter will be great in a couple of years, as the post above I have experienced a few hick up's..
Cracked tail booms
Cracked exhausts
No2 engine started to spool up as the Aux switch was turned on
Windows falling out
Had 3 engines have to be shut down in flight
Hyd failures
But I'm sure once all the gliches are ironed out, this will be a wondeful aircraft. I enjoyed flying it immensly..
Cracked tail booms
Cracked exhausts
No2 engine started to spool up as the Aux switch was turned on
Windows falling out
Had 3 engines have to be shut down in flight
Hyd failures
But I'm sure once all the gliches are ironed out, this will be a wondeful aircraft. I enjoyed flying it immensly..
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I'm all for it!
We will start operation with the '139 late next year and any group discussion/input would be most welcomed.
From what I understand (AW139engineer) will know, most of the issues above have been dealt with on new aircraft or with modifications...s/s exhaust, larger battery etc etc.
Q 1. How do you all feel about the current support system? Components arriving in time??
Q2. What a/c problems have come up?
all the best,
Octane
We will start operation with the '139 late next year and any group discussion/input would be most welcomed.
From what I understand (AW139engineer) will know, most of the issues above have been dealt with on new aircraft or with modifications...s/s exhaust, larger battery etc etc.
Q 1. How do you all feel about the current support system? Components arriving in time??
Q2. What a/c problems have come up?
all the best,
Octane
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Spinwing
1. Cracked exhaust systems, Agusta replaces titainium pipes under warranty with stainless ones, the AD is eliminated and no longer needs a 25 hour check of tailpipes.
2. Excessive tire wear, swap the tire around at 140 -160 hours and maintain the required 230 psi should get you close to 300 hours out a tire, assuming your not doing a lot of taxiing. Takes 20 mins to do.
3. Poor battery performance, we ground power start all the time, so we have no problems, it is a problem when the pilots take a long time to do their cockpit checks without the use of ground power you run the risk of running down both batteries to below 18v, when you attempt a start with a "low" Epic(aux) battery then you risk the screens going blank during start. I highly recommend the new replacement battery for the Epic . See TB for info. If your operation can afford a 139, it can certainly afford a power cart.
4.A/c problems yes its common, changed a couple of low pressure switches, cured our problem, also run the AC often so lubricating oil is evenly distributed throughout sytem.
5. Smokey Engines? thats a new one, I do know that if you shut the master sw off while engines are still rotating during coast down one may introduce a little fuel into the exhaust sytem which produces a lot of white smoke.
I hope this helps, remember this is a new helicopter and it will have problems just like all the other designs on the market., you can wait till it fails and goes U/S or you can be proactive keep a sharp eye on it and catch those impending faults before they ground your machine.
1. Cracked exhaust systems, Agusta replaces titainium pipes under warranty with stainless ones, the AD is eliminated and no longer needs a 25 hour check of tailpipes.
2. Excessive tire wear, swap the tire around at 140 -160 hours and maintain the required 230 psi should get you close to 300 hours out a tire, assuming your not doing a lot of taxiing. Takes 20 mins to do.
3. Poor battery performance, we ground power start all the time, so we have no problems, it is a problem when the pilots take a long time to do their cockpit checks without the use of ground power you run the risk of running down both batteries to below 18v, when you attempt a start with a "low" Epic(aux) battery then you risk the screens going blank during start. I highly recommend the new replacement battery for the Epic . See TB for info. If your operation can afford a 139, it can certainly afford a power cart.
4.A/c problems yes its common, changed a couple of low pressure switches, cured our problem, also run the AC often so lubricating oil is evenly distributed throughout sytem.
5. Smokey Engines? thats a new one, I do know that if you shut the master sw off while engines are still rotating during coast down one may introduce a little fuel into the exhaust sytem which produces a lot of white smoke.
I hope this helps, remember this is a new helicopter and it will have problems just like all the other designs on the market., you can wait till it fails and goes U/S or you can be proactive keep a sharp eye on it and catch those impending faults before they ground your machine.
Last edited by AB139engineer; 12th Jun 2007 at 06:41. Reason: spelling
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OCTANE 100
Agustawestland product support, yes it needs to improve, so does everybody else. Its getting better. However I do highly advise that you do keep some spares on hand, if your fleet is big enough to justify it. It may depend what part of the world your operating in, it might be tougher to get parts if your not in Europe or N.America. The hassle with Agustawestland in North America is that all parts from Italy must go through Philadelphia before they go to the customer. This adds a day or 2 more delivery time (read as AOG time) if your part has to come from Italy.
Some of the stuff that has failed...
Honeywell Starter Generator brushes 270- 300 hour life
1 Honeywell Comm Box
1 Honeywell Rad Alt Box
1 Forward Radio Shelf Cracked due to improper shim support done at factory.
2 A/C Low Pressure Switches
1 IGB input seal (Westland)
1 Yaw trim actuator(Sagem)
2 exhaust pipes crack was only 1/4" replaced with SS Exhaust pipes
1 Rotor Brake Actuator
all the above stuff was covered under warranty.
Agustawestland product support, yes it needs to improve, so does everybody else. Its getting better. However I do highly advise that you do keep some spares on hand, if your fleet is big enough to justify it. It may depend what part of the world your operating in, it might be tougher to get parts if your not in Europe or N.America. The hassle with Agustawestland in North America is that all parts from Italy must go through Philadelphia before they go to the customer. This adds a day or 2 more delivery time (read as AOG time) if your part has to come from Italy.
Some of the stuff that has failed...
Honeywell Starter Generator brushes 270- 300 hour life
1 Honeywell Comm Box
1 Honeywell Rad Alt Box
1 Forward Radio Shelf Cracked due to improper shim support done at factory.
2 A/C Low Pressure Switches
1 IGB input seal (Westland)
1 Yaw trim actuator(Sagem)
2 exhaust pipes crack was only 1/4" replaced with SS Exhaust pipes
1 Rotor Brake Actuator
all the above stuff was covered under warranty.
Last edited by AB139engineer; 12th Jun 2007 at 07:10. Reason: spelling
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Thanks '139engineer.
We will end up with at least six, so I can see some extra GSE coming our way.....a GPU on the helipad for sure.
Sounds like we had better stock up on spare wheels/tyres....!
How are things going with the scissor link bearings? Any improvment on those
bushes yet?
Octane
We will end up with at least six, so I can see some extra GSE coming our way.....a GPU on the helipad for sure.
Sounds like we had better stock up on spare wheels/tyres....!
How are things going with the scissor link bearings? Any improvment on those
bushes yet?
Octane
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OCTANE 100
Yes the 139 rotating scissor bushings definitly need improvement in terms of service life. I have personally complained to Agusta about it. Right now they are testing bushing from 3 different bearing manufacturers. In the mean time Agusta has increased the allowable play in the scissors assembly. The real trick is to shim the scissor bushing fairly tight and that seems to help quite a bit and increases service life of the assembly before removal.
I highly recommend operators that fly lots of hours keep a healthy stock at hand of the scissor bushes. I also have a spare rotating scissor set which speeds up maintenance when its time change out the worn bushes.
Yes the 139 rotating scissor bushings definitly need improvement in terms of service life. I have personally complained to Agusta about it. Right now they are testing bushing from 3 different bearing manufacturers. In the mean time Agusta has increased the allowable play in the scissors assembly. The real trick is to shim the scissor bushing fairly tight and that seems to help quite a bit and increases service life of the assembly before removal.
I highly recommend operators that fly lots of hours keep a healthy stock at hand of the scissor bushes. I also have a spare rotating scissor set which speeds up maintenance when its time change out the worn bushes.
There is the Aircraft itself, and then there is the FMS!!!!! Still discovering new things almost daily, and puzzling over why things work in certain ways. I find it helps if you think of the aircraft crossing the Atlantic! I think it would be a good idea to pool resources of any tips/tricks used elsewhere, maybe people have specific problems that could be answered. The Honeywell Epic and FMS manual hardly touch the surface in telling you how it may be used in our type of environment.
Golly, where to start!!
Been working on 139's for 2 1/2 years nearly, and alot of the early problems have been sorted, but still a few that need sorting.
Exhausts: If you have Titanium exhausts (which I personally prefer), check every post flight for cracks. When you find a crack, repair as per the BT, and they will never crack again. Better yet, install the repair BEFORE they crack
Smokey engines: I've only seen that once, and it was after an emergency shutdown from 100% after a faulty Baggage bay smoke detector went off. Never seen it after a 2 minute rundown at idle.
Scissor link bushes: Yep, a problem still. Agusta say they are in the final stages of testing. The only type I've heard about from them are made by Kamatics, and they make pretty good stuff, so here's hoping!!
Sprocket, 230psi is only 30psi over an S-76 mainwheel. If you have the gear for S-76 wheels, then no problemo.
Ground Power: I was involved in some GPU tests on the 139, and you really need a GOOD 1200Amp GPU. The bigger Aux battery has really helped. Never had Main Battery problems. We do first start of the day on GPU, after that, battery only. Teach you pilots (beat if necessary!!) to modify their pre-start so that most they only need to turn power on to switch on the fuel, and start. That really helps.
Tyres have been covered. One thing that seems to help a bit is reducing turn radius. The tyres scrubb easily. If you taxi out and need to do a 180, pick it up and hover turn, then takeoff from the hover. Easy.
Rotor brake actuators: My pet hate. The actuator itself is OK, but the little microswitch inside is
Quite often get UP and DOWN lights flashing together, even when you know the actuator has stopped moving. Keeping the pivot bolt lubed helps a bit, but it gets damn hot in there, and I think the poor old microswitch just can't hack it.
Mechanically is about as simple as it gets. Much easier to maintain mechanically than a 76. Honeywell needs a kick in the butt though. Updates are few and far between, and box reliability is crappity crap crap. Having said that, some items have been steadily improved.
When you go to the factory for acceptance, take a good engineer. Spend a week if you can, and have them pull of as many access panels as you want. Definitely pull every box out of the center console. Sometimes the screws on the side are too long, and damage the boxes. Don't stand for any damage, have them replaced. Check the lower anti col for corrosion on the reflector. Check EVERY piece of kit that needs electrons. Make sure it is installed, and make sure it works. Ensure you have a checklist from your boss detailing EVERY option that your company has paid for. The guys at the acceptance hall won't know as those details are held by sales. You need to know what should be there. If you do find problems, they will work around the clock to try and ensure your delivery is not delayed.
Serviceability for us has been pretty good. Most issues could have been fixed if parts were here. Our main problem is the time it takes our own supply chain to fulfill orders.
Support from Agusta has been generally good. They are genuinely interested in our problems, and want to fix them. Speed however is not their forte
That should about do it for now
noooby
Been working on 139's for 2 1/2 years nearly, and alot of the early problems have been sorted, but still a few that need sorting.
Exhausts: If you have Titanium exhausts (which I personally prefer), check every post flight for cracks. When you find a crack, repair as per the BT, and they will never crack again. Better yet, install the repair BEFORE they crack
Smokey engines: I've only seen that once, and it was after an emergency shutdown from 100% after a faulty Baggage bay smoke detector went off. Never seen it after a 2 minute rundown at idle.
Scissor link bushes: Yep, a problem still. Agusta say they are in the final stages of testing. The only type I've heard about from them are made by Kamatics, and they make pretty good stuff, so here's hoping!!
Sprocket, 230psi is only 30psi over an S-76 mainwheel. If you have the gear for S-76 wheels, then no problemo.
Ground Power: I was involved in some GPU tests on the 139, and you really need a GOOD 1200Amp GPU. The bigger Aux battery has really helped. Never had Main Battery problems. We do first start of the day on GPU, after that, battery only. Teach you pilots (beat if necessary!!) to modify their pre-start so that most they only need to turn power on to switch on the fuel, and start. That really helps.
Tyres have been covered. One thing that seems to help a bit is reducing turn radius. The tyres scrubb easily. If you taxi out and need to do a 180, pick it up and hover turn, then takeoff from the hover. Easy.
Rotor brake actuators: My pet hate. The actuator itself is OK, but the little microswitch inside is
Quite often get UP and DOWN lights flashing together, even when you know the actuator has stopped moving. Keeping the pivot bolt lubed helps a bit, but it gets damn hot in there, and I think the poor old microswitch just can't hack it.Mechanically is about as simple as it gets. Much easier to maintain mechanically than a 76. Honeywell needs a kick in the butt though. Updates are few and far between, and box reliability is crappity crap crap. Having said that, some items have been steadily improved.
When you go to the factory for acceptance, take a good engineer. Spend a week if you can, and have them pull of as many access panels as you want. Definitely pull every box out of the center console. Sometimes the screws on the side are too long, and damage the boxes. Don't stand for any damage, have them replaced. Check the lower anti col for corrosion on the reflector. Check EVERY piece of kit that needs electrons. Make sure it is installed, and make sure it works. Ensure you have a checklist from your boss detailing EVERY option that your company has paid for. The guys at the acceptance hall won't know as those details are held by sales. You need to know what should be there. If you do find problems, they will work around the clock to try and ensure your delivery is not delayed.
Serviceability for us has been pretty good. Most issues could have been fixed if parts were here. Our main problem is the time it takes our own supply chain to fulfill orders.
Support from Agusta has been generally good. They are genuinely interested in our problems, and want to fix them. Speed however is not their forte
That should about do it for now
noooby
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I use a nitrogen bottle and a calibrated pressure gauge
Agusta will sell you a servicing kit that includes a tire pressure gauge fit for the dualies on a dump truck, I was so pissed off with that crappy air pressure gauge I hounded them for months about it and they finally gave in and purchsed a proper tire pressure gauge to replace it. They do listen, it just takes them a long time to do anything.
Agusta will sell you a servicing kit that includes a tire pressure gauge fit for the dualies on a dump truck, I was so pissed off with that crappy air pressure gauge I hounded them for months about it and they finally gave in and purchsed a proper tire pressure gauge to replace it. They do listen, it just takes them a long time to do anything.
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Pitchlink
Yes the FMS is quite a device, world airport database and all. It would be better if the data base was configured more so for helicopter operations than fixed wing. I guess someone at Honeywell figured helicopters only land and takeoff from airports. At the 139 operators conference comments were made about this issue and I believe honeywell is working on on making the database more practical for helicopter operators in the future.
Yes the FMS is quite a device, world airport database and all. It would be better if the data base was configured more so for helicopter operations than fixed wing. I guess someone at Honeywell figured helicopters only land and takeoff from airports. At the 139 operators conference comments were made about this issue and I believe honeywell is working on on making the database more practical for helicopter operators in the future.
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Octane 100 & Noooby
Today I replaced the left hand main landing gear retraction actuator (made by Smiths for Leiber) due to static leakage from the seal while parked. Philly had the part in stock and it arrived via fedex 40 hours after I ordered it.
Today I replaced the left hand main landing gear retraction actuator (made by Smiths for Leiber) due to static leakage from the seal while parked. Philly had the part in stock and it arrived via fedex 40 hours after I ordered it.
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Battery starts
I start this aircraft on Battery every morning no problem. The only thing that I use an external power cart for is the system checks before the first flight of the day (flight controls etc), as the electrical hyd pump hammers the battery.
The latest revision to the flight manual has modified proceedures for startup on battery when regarding these checks. Check it out.
You will find as you use and cycle the battery more and more it will become stronger and stronger. Hense, starting on the battery no longer becomes a problem.
Pitchlink, what type of enviroment are you operating in? You will eventually grow to love this piece of equipment, it can be a pain in the arse at first but once you get a good hold on it you will love it. I'd be lost with a GPS now.
p.s. Hows the new job Darren999? Hope things are going well mate.
PK
The latest revision to the flight manual has modified proceedures for startup on battery when regarding these checks. Check it out.
You will find as you use and cycle the battery more and more it will become stronger and stronger. Hense, starting on the battery no longer becomes a problem.
Pitchlink, what type of enviroment are you operating in? You will eventually grow to love this piece of equipment, it can be a pain in the arse at first but once you get a good hold on it you will love it. I'd be lost with a GPS now.
p.s. Hows the new job Darren999? Hope things are going well mate.
PK
Last edited by platinumpure; 18th Jun 2007 at 02:59.
Platinumpure,
Am using the 139 to shuttle short sectors in the Southern North Sea. My post was not to give the impression that I do not like the FMS, I think it is great! It is the little neuances (spelling?) and finer points of use that I am interested in!
The point was to find out how other operators are using it, or getting the information required from it. For example it has taken over a year of use to find out how to find arrival fuel to the nearest KG, rather than the closest 100kg. Are people using the VPath function and if so what for? And what are the /.3M/.5M/ figures in the descent portion of the PERF INIT page? I have figured out the rest and how they affect the system planning, but cannot figure out what they are and the manual does not help!
I may be different to others, but I would like to know as much I can about a system so that I can choose which aspects not to use, rather than just wanting to know the basics. Any help would be appreciated.
Am using the 139 to shuttle short sectors in the Southern North Sea. My post was not to give the impression that I do not like the FMS, I think it is great! It is the little neuances (spelling?) and finer points of use that I am interested in!
The point was to find out how other operators are using it, or getting the information required from it. For example it has taken over a year of use to find out how to find arrival fuel to the nearest KG, rather than the closest 100kg. Are people using the VPath function and if so what for? And what are the /.3M/.5M/ figures in the descent portion of the PERF INIT page? I have figured out the rest and how they affect the system planning, but cannot figure out what they are and the manual does not help!
I may be different to others, but I would like to know as much I can about a system so that I can choose which aspects not to use, rather than just wanting to know the basics. Any help would be appreciated.