Nordic Standard Helicopter NH-90
Thread Starter
Nordic Standard Helicopter NH-90
What is the latest? It has been 8 years since the decision and the silence has been deafening. Have deliveries begun? If so, are they living up to the stringent specifications required by the program?
There was a big article in the German rotary magazine "Rotorblatt" about the NH90 disaster. Pictures show the Swedish NH90s as well and it says they have them since 2007. The big joke is that the pilots type ratings have expired by now!!!
I have a scan of that article, if anyone wants to have a read, just drop me a PM. As mentioned before, it is in German!
I have a scan of that article, if anyone wants to have a read, just drop me a PM. As mentioned before, it is in German!
I think the original deliveries for Norway was somewhere around 2005, but no machines yet. (2005!! they're only FIVE years late!!!)
Squadrons are up and running, with Pilots and everything, but nothing to fly. I guess the days are well filled with correcting pubs and looking at Jane's...
Apparently they did the sea going trials with the Nordkapp Class Coast Guard ships, but deliveries expected to start in LATE 2010...
But no, it was the best choice, really, oh and they won't be delayed too much...
Cheers
H.
Squadrons are up and running, with Pilots and everything, but nothing to fly. I guess the days are well filled with correcting pubs and looking at Jane's...
Apparently they did the sea going trials with the Nordkapp Class Coast Guard ships, but deliveries expected to start in LATE 2010...
But no, it was the best choice, really, oh and they won't be delayed too much...
Cheers
H.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info. The NH-90 seems to be the A400 of the helicopter world. It has proven to be more capable on paper than in the air. It appears that the Danes decision to go it alone with the EH101 may have been the smart. Are the Swedes, Finns and Norwegians continuing to operate there BV107s, Mil 8s and S-61s? Those machines are getting pretty long in the tooth.
Norway currently operates Westland Lynx for shipboard ops, just Coastguard really, and minor SAR.
They also have a few Sea Kings (Westland built machines) that are used ONLY for SAR, and they are getting long in the tooth as well. 1970/71 for the first 12, and the replacement machines from sometime in the late 80's/early 90's.
And in addition to that, a few Bell 412SP's for troop transport.
The Lynx have been upgraded some, and given life extension, but they are singing on the last verse I believe.
When they originally started this deal, they should have gone with modernized/customized SH/HH-60's, rather than betting on something that was not even flying at the time...
But...
They also have a few Sea Kings (Westland built machines) that are used ONLY for SAR, and they are getting long in the tooth as well. 1970/71 for the first 12, and the replacement machines from sometime in the late 80's/early 90's.
And in addition to that, a few Bell 412SP's for troop transport.
The Lynx have been upgraded some, and given life extension, but they are singing on the last verse I believe.
When they originally started this deal, they should have gone with modernized/customized SH/HH-60's, rather than betting on something that was not even flying at the time...
But...
Indeed...
Why buy reliable and proven equipment, when we can get NEW, UNPROVEN and FANCY sh!t, that hasn't even flown yet! AND we get to decide the COLOR too!!
Nah, lost my respect when they did that. Went pretty far when they designed the ships to fit those machines, without thinking it could end up like the aussie Sea Sprite...
Well, we'll see in 2011 if it was a good buy or not...
Why buy reliable and proven equipment, when we can get NEW, UNPROVEN and FANCY sh!t, that hasn't even flown yet! AND we get to decide the COLOR too!!
Nah, lost my respect when they did that. Went pretty far when they designed the ships to fit those machines, without thinking it could end up like the aussie Sea Sprite...
Well, we'll see in 2011 if it was a good buy or not...
I heard the Norwegians had cut there order back to just the Frigate helo's the original plan was first batch of NH90's for Lynx replacement for the Frigate's, second batch SAR machines to replace the Seakings then third batch to replace the 412's but the NH90 is not meeting expectations hence looking at AS225's and S-92's as SAR replacement now, when I was in Norway 7 years ago when they were looking at machines Airforce pilots and Engineers I talked to said all the wanted was Sea Hawks as Lynx replacement, S-92 as Seaking replacement and Black Hawks as 412 replacement, but said they knew they would end up with second rate European helos, the only European country to have the balls to buy what the military wanted and not european was Austria, they got Black Hawks, they cost more than Super Pumas but it was exactly what the Airforce wanted and they love them.
P.S. the nickname for the MRH90 here in Australia now is the "Landsprite" as it will be as useful as the Seasprite was!
P.S. the nickname for the MRH90 here in Australia now is the "Landsprite" as it will be as useful as the Seasprite was!
P.S. the nickname for the MRH90 here in Australia now is the "Landsprite" as it will be as useful as the Seasprite was!
how could it be as bad as the overly ambitious Seasprite fiasco. Standing by for the naval variant though!Turkey
Thread Starter
Politics Trumps All
Having watched the Nordic program from the beginning (1998) and Australia's procurement of the Sea Sprite from close up, one has to ask: Are military requirements really the driving forces behind these programs? Urgency was a theme upon the issuance of the initial RFPs for these programs, sighting the requirements of each country's respective military. More than a dozen years later and their military forces are continuing to make due with 40+ year old machines.
Politics trumped real world requirements. Early in the Nordic program the combined National Program Groups cited the Blackhawk as being too mature (i.e. not modern enough) and the S-92 as being too immature (i.e. not proven). Boeings CH-47 and Eurocopter’s Super Puma were also rejected on similar arguments. The ultra modern unproven NH90 was the only man left standing.
Politics trumped real world requirements. Early in the Nordic program the combined National Program Groups cited the Blackhawk as being too mature (i.e. not modern enough) and the S-92 as being too immature (i.e. not proven). Boeings CH-47 and Eurocopter’s Super Puma were also rejected on similar arguments. The ultra modern unproven NH90 was the only man left standing.
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The NH90's problems presumably stem from asking two OEMs with a bitter history (esp. in the European courts) to work together. Especially when both continue to promote competing products (AW101/AW149 & EC725).
Turkey raises a good point: the TTH utility version (and sub-variants) is just a truck; the NFH naval version, incl. the NSH, is a far more sophisticated platform. It's tempting to wonder whether NHI might have been better off selecting a dedicated mission systems provider, as was done with the MH-60R and Merlin HM Mk1, though neither of those programs can exactly be held up as a model of program management.
Mission systems aside, it's unfair to call the NH90 a "second rate" helicopter, given that its capabilities (FBW, FADEC, composite cabin) won't be matched on the 60 Mike until the UH-60Mu BII, which is 5+ years away.
The NH90's fate is in NHI's hands: unless they start meeting their delivery targets (2009 goal = 40, actual = 15), those 529 orders may start eroding.
I/C
Turkey raises a good point: the TTH utility version (and sub-variants) is just a truck; the NFH naval version, incl. the NSH, is a far more sophisticated platform. It's tempting to wonder whether NHI might have been better off selecting a dedicated mission systems provider, as was done with the MH-60R and Merlin HM Mk1, though neither of those programs can exactly be held up as a model of program management.
Mission systems aside, it's unfair to call the NH90 a "second rate" helicopter, given that its capabilities (FBW, FADEC, composite cabin) won't be matched on the 60 Mike until the UH-60Mu BII, which is 5+ years away.
The NH90's fate is in NHI's hands: unless they start meeting their delivery targets (2009 goal = 40, actual = 15), those 529 orders may start eroding.
I/C
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Yet the Danish have ALL their aircraft (plus 6)
The Nordic programme didnt decide the NH90 was the only platform as the RDAF has proven, there was another.
14 x EH101 delivered and in service (plus 6 replacments for the transferred aircraft) by the time how many NH90/H92 are in squadron service?
Maybe the temptation of so much new (then (still?) unproven) technology was too much to resist, or maybe the cabin height for a SAR machine was the deciding factor (hey even the Nordic NH90 got a new roof)
DM
14 x EH101 delivered and in service (plus 6 replacments for the transferred aircraft) by the time how many NH90/H92 are in squadron service?
Maybe the temptation of so much new (then (still?) unproven) technology was too much to resist, or maybe the cabin height for a SAR machine was the deciding factor (hey even the Nordic NH90 got a new roof)
DM
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Everyone wants the new type rating though, don't they? Well most do and certainly those with plenty of career left. I'll take an EC225B/S92B rather than an S61Z++
Never fly the A of course.
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Never fly the A of course.
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