B206 dual controls...
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B206 dual controls...
Just had a minor dispute with a guy in the local beverage-centre (pub). Can anyone help? Question: May a PPL(H) with no engineering qualifications legally remove and refit JetRanger dual-controls (passenger side, of course!) Many thanks bm (I have 420 hours P1 and was never told!!)
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Hi
I could be wrong, but I believe that you can remove them as long as you are type rated on the machine and that you have been shown how to by a qualified engineer. However, as I said, I could be completely wrong.
I would be interested in knowing as I have one myself and would like to know the answer myself!.
Joel
I could be wrong, but I believe that you can remove them as long as you are type rated on the machine and that you have been shown how to by a qualified engineer. However, as I said, I could be completely wrong.
I would be interested in knowing as I have one myself and would like to know the answer myself!.
Joel
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It might depend if you have the Bell "Quick-fit" kit for the pedals installed.
If you do, then its an easy job to remove the pedals (only) with the push-pull rod staying in position.
If in doubt, why don't you get your maintainers to show you how to and get them to sign a piece of paper to prove it. Then hang onto the piece of paper like there is no tomorrow (in case you to present it to the authorities in the future).
Good Luck
800
If you do, then its an easy job to remove the pedals (only) with the push-pull rod staying in position.
If in doubt, why don't you get your maintainers to show you how to and get them to sign a piece of paper to prove it. Then hang onto the piece of paper like there is no tomorrow (in case you to present it to the authorities in the future).
Good Luck
800
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It depends on ur local Civil Aviation Regulator.. In most countries, a LAME is required to do it and sign for it. Practically its almost impossible to do so all the time, so the Lame may show u how to do it once, then if he/she's happy with ur competence, ur on u own, and no record is kept... BUT u cannot touch the pedals unless u have had a quick removal kit fitted as mentioned above
I know how u feel, I had the same argument with one Chief Engineer 1 time as I had always done it myself; but he was legally correct; a few beers later, we kissed and made up lol
Cheers
Skyking2
I know how u feel, I had the same argument with one Chief Engineer 1 time as I had always done it myself; but he was legally correct; a few beers later, we kissed and made up lol
Cheers
Skyking2
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Whilst flying for a UK AOC company, i had a written approval from the JAR 145 organisation to removed and insert the Duals (not including pedals) based on my Type Rating and a briefing from the Engineer.
Barny
Barny
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IMO if you're working on controls, a certificated mechanic (engineer) should do the work, or at least inspect it and sign it off. I certainly wouldn't do it. Your local FSDO or other government official might have a different opinion, though.
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Guys,
Let's not forget that these controls are designed to be very easily removed, and once they are, ensure that a passenger is unable to adversely affect the operation of the helicopter (with the exception of the pedals). This is often far safer than leaving them in.
On the basis that the pilot is responsible for an A check each morning, a pre-flight check prior to each flight, and is allowed to undertake some basic remedial work......I think that most pilots who are rated on the machine have the ability to remove the collective and the cyclic!
Joel
Let's not forget that these controls are designed to be very easily removed, and once they are, ensure that a passenger is unable to adversely affect the operation of the helicopter (with the exception of the pedals). This is often far safer than leaving them in.
On the basis that the pilot is responsible for an A check each morning, a pre-flight check prior to each flight, and is allowed to undertake some basic remedial work......I think that most pilots who are rated on the machine have the ability to remove the collective and the cyclic!
Joel
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Are we talking "practical" or "LEGAL" requirements here.
And lets not get into the single vs multi-engine helicopters with dual controls installed and the difference (for Australia anyway) of the Class B aircraft pilot maintenance vs the non-Class B aircraft.
can of worms I say.
better to be safe and let an Engineer do it, or as I said before have a written "maintence authority"!
lets stay out of jail!
800
And lets not get into the single vs multi-engine helicopters with dual controls installed and the difference (for Australia anyway) of the Class B aircraft pilot maintenance vs the non-Class B aircraft.
can of worms I say.
better to be safe and let an Engineer do it, or as I said before have a written "maintence authority"!
lets stay out of jail!
800
I know the OP is asking for UK, but Australia requires the pilot to be authorised to remove or install dual controls, and that will usually exclude the tail rotor pedals, which have to be done by a qualified LAME.
My MA (Maintenance Authority) for the 206 is:
4. Installation/removal of co-pilot cyclic and collective dual controls, not including tail rotor pedals;
Whereas the AS350 is:
3. Removal and installation of Co-pilots dual flight controls;
My MA (Maintenance Authority) for the 206 is:
4. Installation/removal of co-pilot cyclic and collective dual controls, not including tail rotor pedals;
Whereas the AS350 is:
3. Removal and installation of Co-pilots dual flight controls;
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UK perspective:
If you are operating on an AOC, you need an authorisation from your Part-145 maintainer.
If you are operating private, there is NO PROVISION for such an authorisation to be issued - if you have one from a 145 MO for private flights, ask them under what part of the regulation it has been issued.
If you fly private, you fit/remove duals at your own risk.
And on a B206, IMHO, don't touch the pedals whatever type they are.
If you are operating on an AOC, you need an authorisation from your Part-145 maintainer.
If you are operating private, there is NO PROVISION for such an authorisation to be issued - if you have one from a 145 MO for private flights, ask them under what part of the regulation it has been issued.
If you fly private, you fit/remove duals at your own risk.
And on a B206, IMHO, don't touch the pedals whatever type they are.
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It takes two to ....
What about the independent inspection after removal or fitting the controls? As you are interfering with the flight controls do you not need a duplicate inspection?
Our regulator requires two LAMEs to do what I used to do on my own 30+ years ago.
Our regulator requires two LAMEs to do what I used to do on my own 30+ years ago.
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We are authorised to remove the controls on our own but installing requires a second pilot who as a minimum needs to be authorised to inspect the freshly installed duals.
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it took 11 posts but we finally got to the important part when Shortshaft reminded everyone of Independant Inspections (or Duplicate Inspections or RII's, whatever they're called in your legislation). It doesn't matter whether or not the duals are 'quick-disconnect' or not, by removing or fitting them you're disconnecting/connecting a primary flight control and legislation, i.e. legal requirements, are very specific on this matter.
Those of you out there who are performing this task should be aware of this - particularly when everything goes pear-shaped - and those who are doing it under the authority of a local/company 'approval' or 'authorisation' should ensure that this aspect is adequately covered, for the same reason.
Shortshaft - I see you reside in Asia, perhaps we learned this working on the same register.
Those of you out there who are performing this task should be aware of this - particularly when everything goes pear-shaped - and those who are doing it under the authority of a local/company 'approval' or 'authorisation' should ensure that this aspect is adequately covered, for the same reason.
Shortshaft - I see you reside in Asia, perhaps we learned this working on the same register.
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Slight thread drift, but in the Schweizer 300C PoH it gives a procedure for the pilot to remove and install dual controls (7-18 - Aircraft Handling, Servicing and Maintenance)
Depending on the model the procedure goes so far as to remove the anti-torque pedals and place blanks over the holes (this is for CO2 purposes).
In this case then, is it (legally) acceptable for a pilot to do this on his/her own, as it is a prescribed procedure in the POH?
Depending on the model the procedure goes so far as to remove the anti-torque pedals and place blanks over the holes (this is for CO2 purposes).
In this case then, is it (legally) acceptable for a pilot to do this on his/her own, as it is a prescribed procedure in the POH?
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I'm deeply indebted to you all..
.... and have been fascinated by the replies...many thanks.
My aviating is all done now and I'm likely to be classed as legally blind soon... but was relieved to learn how many of you shared my ignorance/uncertainty! Look after the sky for me! bm
My aviating is all done now and I'm likely to be classed as legally blind soon... but was relieved to learn how many of you shared my ignorance/uncertainty! Look after the sky for me!
bm
