Help me out here guys..............Mecca HEMS
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Help me out here guys..............Mecca HEMS
..........I need to locate an FAA licensed twin rated HEMS qualified pilot who is also a Muslim. This is part of e requirement to fly around Mecca during the HAJJ at the end of November. Good pay for the right guy and it's all in a good cause.
Thanks
G
Thanks
G
Geoffers - whilst I don't know you I have always read your posts and given you credit for what have been informed and reasoned opinions. I am not the most politically correct person, but your original post seems to discriminate against a significant majority of the population. I appreciate that the employer may be insisting on these conditions, but to see such a post on PPrune is, to put it mildly, somewhat offensive.
Chief Bottle Washer
My initial reaction was that the restriction on the job, albeit a temporary one, seems to be against what would be best described as "western values". But we are a world wide web, and quite a few cultures and countries don't all share those values. I trust Geoff's judgment that he has asked for help to find a pilot, and honestly stated the employer's requirements.
To allow those who may meet the criteria set by Geoff to contact him via PM or e mail, I'm going to lock this thread but leave it to be viewed. Please don't see this as a precedent: it's not, and won't be treated as such.
To allow those who may meet the criteria set by Geoff to contact him via PM or e mail, I'm going to lock this thread but leave it to be viewed. Please don't see this as a precedent: it's not, and won't be treated as such.
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HEMS in Middle East
Regarding Geoffincornwall looking for a Muslim helicopter pilot -
I have known Geoff for many years and served with him in the Royal Navy decades ago. (Geoff is much older though)
He is trying to fill a position with requirements set forth by the host country.
Get over it!
If you don't fancy the requirements don't apply.
I have known Geoff for many years and served with him in the Royal Navy decades ago. (Geoff is much older though)
He is trying to fill a position with requirements set forth by the host country.
Get over it!
If you don't fancy the requirements don't apply.
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Poor old Geoff
I too know Geoff of old - and you don't get any older than Geoff.
I understand he is currently incarcerated (with his Zimmer) in a foreign country and will only be released if he can find said pilot with said qualifications.
Have a heart chaps, this is what alcohol deprivation can do to you.
I understand he is currently incarcerated (with his Zimmer) in a foreign country and will only be released if he can find said pilot with said qualifications.
Have a heart chaps, this is what alcohol deprivation can do to you.
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A few people are upset that he's looking to hire a muslim HEMS pilot for Mecca during the Hajj. In other words they're trying to hire someone actually allowed (by law) to enter Mecca to work in Mecca.
What if they wanted a catholic for the Vatican? A buddhist for the Dalai Lama's transport? An Anglican pilot for wherever they're from?
It just isn't all that surprising.
What if they wanted a catholic for the Vatican? A buddhist for the Dalai Lama's transport? An Anglican pilot for wherever they're from?
It just isn't all that surprising.
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The point is Jolly Green that in a tolerant, democratic society we cannot discrimate on the grounds of religion. Pprune is not a Saudi employment website and should not be used as such. If Geoffers wants a Muslim pilot then he should be advertising in Saudi where the ad would not raise eyebrows or hackles.
You need to get a sense of humour SP.
I am well aware of the restrictions, repression and discrimination in Islamic society having lived and worked there, so I don't need your lecture.
I fortunately now live in a tolerant, democratic country where people are still allowed to voice their opinions and expect a right of reply. Calling me stupid and then removing that right of reply by closing off the thread is hardly democratic.
I was surprised (although perhaps I should not be) by your acceptance of an overtly discriminatory pilot job advertisement on PPRuNe. My point is that you should not have allowed one that specified a race, colour or religion.
You need to get a sense of humour SP.
I am well aware of the restrictions, repression and discrimination in Islamic society having lived and worked there, so I don't need your lecture.
I fortunately now live in a tolerant, democratic country where people are still allowed to voice their opinions and expect a right of reply. Calling me stupid and then removing that right of reply by closing off the thread is hardly democratic.
I was surprised (although perhaps I should not be) by your acceptance of an overtly discriminatory pilot job advertisement on PPRuNe. My point is that you should not have allowed one that specified a race, colour or religion.
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I'm a muslim and so's my wife 
.......................Or have I just had an Epiphany?
Sorry to say Mr Mod, but the bloke from Oz does look to have at least a smidgin of a point here, doesn't he?. You did rather cut him off in his prime earlier today (UTC+1), and more pointedly by doing so you did rather exercise a similar (albeit apparent) lack of tolerance...that being a similar sort of lack of tolerance that many - not all - muslims choose to direct toward those of us who do not share the same beliefs/god/imaginary friend (delete as appropriate).
It's their sandpit (sic) so they get to make the rules, but the truth remains a similar job ad placed for London HEMS or anyone else in the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, et al world would attract much wailing and knashing of teeth, rightly and properly in my humble opinion. Perhaps that alone is the point that made Epiphany, myself and a few other I'll wager, wince over our morning coffee.
Not that I think Geoff's original post was wrong in any way; he stated clearly the need for the role. It is just that by locking the original thread you appeared to stifle the debate that looked to be about to start, and thereby gave an impression you may not have intended. I might be wrong, but I myself would have been interested to see where such a debate might take us.
Yet I respect your decision to choose otherwise. Your sandpit, and all that!
May your god go with you
Dan
Dan, point taken. I've merged this with the original thread, and unlocked. But if the debate takes a direction more suited to Jetblast, I reserve the right to moderate accordingly!
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.......................Or have I just had an Epiphany?
Sorry to say Mr Mod, but the bloke from Oz does look to have at least a smidgin of a point here, doesn't he?. You did rather cut him off in his prime earlier today (UTC+1), and more pointedly by doing so you did rather exercise a similar (albeit apparent) lack of tolerance...that being a similar sort of lack of tolerance that many - not all - muslims choose to direct toward those of us who do not share the same beliefs/god/imaginary friend (delete as appropriate).
It's their sandpit (sic) so they get to make the rules, but the truth remains a similar job ad placed for London HEMS or anyone else in the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, et al world would attract much wailing and knashing of teeth, rightly and properly in my humble opinion. Perhaps that alone is the point that made Epiphany, myself and a few other I'll wager, wince over our morning coffee.
Not that I think Geoff's original post was wrong in any way; he stated clearly the need for the role. It is just that by locking the original thread you appeared to stifle the debate that looked to be about to start, and thereby gave an impression you may not have intended. I might be wrong, but I myself would have been interested to see where such a debate might take us.
Yet I respect your decision to choose otherwise. Your sandpit, and all that!
May your god go with you
Dan
Dan, point taken. I've merged this with the original thread, and unlocked. But if the debate takes a direction more suited to Jetblast, I reserve the right to moderate accordingly!
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Am I alone in reading the above posts in amazement, while contemplating the shrieks and howls of self-righteous indignation and outrage were the advert to read, "London HEMS, Christian pilot required..." - or worse, if we are to excite all the pavlovian PC racist bigotry buttons; "New York HEMS..."
And wonder how many minutes the thread would last before the mods pulled it in a fit of "politically correct" censorship.
And wonder how many minutes the thread would last before the mods pulled it in a fit of "politically correct" censorship.
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Just so that I can fully understand Epiphany's point: he's upset that a regular poster is seeking an FAA Licenced pilot (in itself a criteria) with a further criteria pertinent to the job (religion), to which he takes exception. I haven't got an FAA Licence, this is obviously discriminating and shouldn't be allowed on Rotorheads 
While demanding that the post/thread should not be allowed (therefore deleted/locked), he is incensed that his own thread was locked. The thread that was designed to inflame, and even expected "to last 10 seconds". Double standards, anyone?
And he comes from a democratic society that imposes offshore detention on refugees, and gives the world "Hey Hey It's Saturday"
I'm (almost) glad that PPRuNe isn't a democracy........
While demanding that the post/thread should not be allowed (therefore deleted/locked), he is incensed that his own thread was locked. The thread that was designed to inflame, and even expected "to last 10 seconds". Double standards, anyone?
And he comes from a democratic society that imposes offshore detention on refugees, and gives the world "Hey Hey It's Saturday"
I'm (almost) glad that PPRuNe isn't a democracy........
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Okay Squeaks, aka Agaricus bisporus
'Driver of Airframes' and 'airframe, driver' eh? If you are going to create multiple personalities here, try having the memory to do it with originality, especially on posts 13mins apart. Silly person (because the software won't let me write T**t!
And, Gracias, Mr Mod.
I leave the rest to you, sir. I'm off to bed.
Dan
'Driver of Airframes' and 'airframe, driver' eh? If you are going to create multiple personalities here, try having the memory to do it with originality, especially on posts 13mins apart. Silly person (because the software won't let me write T**t!
And, Gracias, Mr Mod.
I leave the rest to you, sir. I'm off to bed.
Dan
Having reflected on my original post (and not having had quite so much gin & wine), I may have slightly overstated my opinion. That said, and whilst I can't quite put my finger succinctly on the point, there is something about this that does not seem quite right.
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Cherry picked from Wiki
Non-Muslims are not permitted to enter Mecca under Saudi law.
The Saudi government supports their position using sura 9:28 from the Quran:
“O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.”[Qur'an 9:28]
The existence of cities closed to non-Muslims and the mystery of the Hajjs aroused intense curiosity in people from around the world. Some have disguised themselves as Muslims and entered the city of Mecca and then the Grand Mosque to experience the Hajj for themselves. The first to leave a record was Ludovico di Varthema of Bologna in 1503. The most famous account of a foreigner's journey to Mecca is A Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina, written by Sir Richard Francis Burton. Burton traveled as a Qadiriyyah Sufi from Afghanistan; his name, as he signed it in Arabic below his frontispiece portrait for The Jew The Gypsy and El Islam was al-Hajj 'Abdullah. Individuals who use fake certificates of Muslim identity to enter may be arrested and prosecuted by Saudi authorities.
Thumbs up from this part of the world Geoffers for trying to give someone gainful employment.
Non-Muslims are not permitted to enter Mecca under Saudi law.
The Saudi government supports their position using sura 9:28 from the Quran:
“O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.”[Qur'an 9:28]
The existence of cities closed to non-Muslims and the mystery of the Hajjs aroused intense curiosity in people from around the world. Some have disguised themselves as Muslims and entered the city of Mecca and then the Grand Mosque to experience the Hajj for themselves. The first to leave a record was Ludovico di Varthema of Bologna in 1503. The most famous account of a foreigner's journey to Mecca is A Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina, written by Sir Richard Francis Burton. Burton traveled as a Qadiriyyah Sufi from Afghanistan; his name, as he signed it in Arabic below his frontispiece portrait for The Jew The Gypsy and El Islam was al-Hajj 'Abdullah. Individuals who use fake certificates of Muslim identity to enter may be arrested and prosecuted by Saudi authorities.
Thumbs up from this part of the world Geoffers for trying to give someone gainful employment.
